Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was I right to pull him out of the Nativity?

368 replies

cantsleepinbed · 13/12/2023 09:11

DS is five and in year one. The school have referred him for an ASD assessment that we have in January.

He was really scared about doing the Nativity and said he doesn't like people looking at him. I spoke to the school and they said they'd put him at the back with the older children so people couldn't see him.

He seemed happy with that until the day of the Nativity. He refused to go to School. The only way I could get him there was by telling him he didn't have to do it all. Spoke to the school when we got there. All fine. They let him sit in the older class who weren't doing the Nativity.

DS loved going in the older class. Perfectly happy.

But I've since had comments from a relative who thinks I made a mistake and that DS needed to just get on with it. That I'm othering him. He'll end up with no friends as he'll be forgotten, overlooked, etc. If he keeps missing all the stuff the other kids are doing. He'll be different and that will exclude and isolate him.

I do undstand their point but also, I didn't want DS to be unhappy and I couldn't bloody get him to school. What was I supposed to do?

Other things include not sitting with his class when they went to the panto as he was petrified so had to sit at the back with his favourite teacher. Won't do sports day, etc.

OP posts:
beautifullittletree · 13/12/2023 11:22

@Brendabigbaps

you jumped to conclusions from reading a sentence, you didn’t think about the context.

I jumped nowhere.

You said id recommend reading lots more about asd, it’s a lifestyle.

I said it's not a lifestyle, it's a disability. Which it is.

Sallyh87 · 13/12/2023 11:22

He is 5 and terrified, absolutely you did the right thing x

CurlewKate · 13/12/2023 11:24

I have adult children. One of my regrets is some of the things I made them do they didn't want to.

What he will learn from this is that someone had his back and was kind to him and understood him. An incredibly valuable lesson.

Jacfrost · 13/12/2023 11:25

beautifullittletree · 13/12/2023 11:22

@Brendabigbaps

you jumped to conclusions from reading a sentence, you didn’t think about the context.

I jumped nowhere.

You said id recommend reading lots more about asd, it’s a lifestyle.

I said it's not a lifestyle, it's a disability. Which it is.

Why are you being so difficult towards Brenda? It's perfectly clear from her post in its entirety that she was talking about accommodations a family needs to make being a lifestyle, not autism itself

WestwardHo1 · 13/12/2023 11:31

Iwasafool · 13/12/2023 11:17

I heard Judi Dench being interviewed. She said she has performed on stage and then got to the after party, put her hand on the door and turned away because she couldn't cope with going in. I think lots of actors have nerves and stage fright, if they make a career of it they have to learn to cope with it.

Back in the day I think Laurence Olivier was well know to be incredibly shy and quiet and had terrible stage fright.

Show quote history

I doubt either of them were told "it's ok Larry/Judi, you don't have to, you can perform in front of an empty room if it makes you less anxious."

I get that the party thing is completely different actually.

It doesn't matter in this context anyway because the kid is only five and hasn't decided to make a career out of being in the Nativity!

ThisMama1 · 13/12/2023 11:32

My son has autism & has been in a Sen setting since age 2, he’s now 11. We try to push his boundaries a little bit to try & get him used to more things & I would have done exactly as you did. I would have pushed him a little bit eg going to school instead of staying off but not forcing him into the show if he really felt he couldn’t. There’s times to push a little & times to let things go. It could have caused major issues to force them to do a show. He’s only little, there’s plenty of time for you to work on ‘life skills’. My son at 11 is a completely different child at 5. He never participated then but will even do speaking lines now even with his high anxiety & sensory issues

Brendabigbaps · 13/12/2023 11:33

beautifullittletree · 13/12/2023 11:22

@Brendabigbaps

you jumped to conclusions from reading a sentence, you didn’t think about the context.

I jumped nowhere.

You said id recommend reading lots more about asd, it’s a lifestyle.

I said it's not a lifestyle, it's a disability. Which it is.

You did because you made the assumption I was talking about the child’s disability, I wasn’t, I was talking about the lifestyle the family will have to live around the disability. Because that’s what it is, you have to adapt your lifestyle to live with a disability.

i don’t see you jumping in on other posts shouting “it’s a disability” when they’re talking about other aspects of neuro diversity.

Now move along and go shout on other posts before I report you for being a troll

hot2trotter · 13/12/2023 11:33

My daughter (suspected asd but very good at masking at school so no diagnosis yet) has never made it through a nativity (or equivalent - even sports day) without breaking down and having to be taken to one side.She's almost 9! I have never forced her and never would.
My other children are shy and don't particularly like those kinds of thing - they wouldn't cope with a main part for example, but will sing with the rest of their class. My daughter is different and just can't manage it any of it.

MrsWhites · 13/12/2023 11:33

I think you did the right thing. I hate this ‘they have to just get on with it’ idea, would that relative stand up in front of 100 people and give a speech? Not everyone is comfortable with public speaking/performance.

My son is older but is still the same, hates class performances and really struggles with anxiety in the lead up.

TheFrenchLieutenantsMonkey · 13/12/2023 11:33

Your DS sounds just like my DD. When she was at primary school she was terrified of people looking at her in the nativity. I asked school, fine she can sit at the back. The day of the nativity she was shaking and crying but I was persuaded under the guise of 'it'll help build her resilience" that it would be OK, she would be hidden at the back. She spent the whole hour of the play sat with a shawl of her costume over her head visibly shaking. It did nothing for her resilience but it really messed up her trust in school and in me. I couldn't say to her 'see nobbody spent time looking at you" because, although they were mostly watching their own children, I could hear the other parents/grandparents/carers wondering about her. One came up afterwards and told her ahe was a silly billy (thanks...so helpful)
You did exactly the right thing. Sadly with ASD it might not be feasilble to teach steong resilience. Its not something that a child with ASD can always learn fully and there are other, less traumatic ways to do it. My daughter has very little and she's 17 and she still remembers that play and gets upset at the thought of it, so yes it was traumatic for her. And no I haven't molly coddled her, I haven't 'othered, smothered or overmothered' her. Ive dealt with her disability as I would have any other. Doing exacly what she was able to do and not expecting her to act as though it didn't exist.
Well done for showing your son that he can always trust you.

TinyTear · 13/12/2023 11:38

you did a great job @cantsleepinbed .

in my kids primary, my eldest (diagnosed autistic) went to the concert with ear defenders. in my youngest's class a boy with 'stage fright' according to my kid - gets to stand on the side of the stage but not on the stage - in costume - and sing and play the tambourine or whatever - so still participate but not up on stage to get scared

Cerealkiller4U · 13/12/2023 11:38

cantsleepinbed · 13/12/2023 09:11

DS is five and in year one. The school have referred him for an ASD assessment that we have in January.

He was really scared about doing the Nativity and said he doesn't like people looking at him. I spoke to the school and they said they'd put him at the back with the older children so people couldn't see him.

He seemed happy with that until the day of the Nativity. He refused to go to School. The only way I could get him there was by telling him he didn't have to do it all. Spoke to the school when we got there. All fine. They let him sit in the older class who weren't doing the Nativity.

DS loved going in the older class. Perfectly happy.

But I've since had comments from a relative who thinks I made a mistake and that DS needed to just get on with it. That I'm othering him. He'll end up with no friends as he'll be forgotten, overlooked, etc. If he keeps missing all the stuff the other kids are doing. He'll be different and that will exclude and isolate him.

I do undstand their point but also, I didn't want DS to be unhappy and I couldn't bloody get him to school. What was I supposed to do?

Other things include not sitting with his class when they went to the panto as he was petrified so had to sit at the back with his favourite teacher. Won't do sports day, etc.

My daughter has SEN. I would have pulled her out too. I don’t think you need to put him through stuff that won’t serve him a purpose and you’re just breaking down his trust in you.

my daughter does things when she needs too, but I don’t force her before she’s ready. She didn’t cope with state school so we took her out and privately have them tutored. It’s been an amazing confidence builder for her with doing so. With that confidence she’s gone on to do more scary things,

you don’t need to force him to do stuff at this age.

beautifullittletree · 13/12/2023 11:38

@Brendabigbaps

Now move along and go shout on other posts before I report you for being a troll

Report away, tbh I see no more than me misunderstanding the way you wrote that, which is common with autistic people. Im not shouting at anyone but I did comment on someone being ableist upthread as well. I'm not the only poster who questioned your 'lifestyle' comment either.

Don't threaten to report me for trolling though, just report. Mumsnet will clearly see that there is absolutely no trolling involved

beautifullittletree · 13/12/2023 11:40

@Jacfrost

Why are you being so difficult towards Brenda? It's perfectly clear from her post in its entirety that she was talking about accommodations a family needs to make being a lifestyle, not autism itself

Because it wasn't 'perfectly clear' to me. I read it differently and now it has been explained I can see and have acknowledged that.

DaftyInTheMiddle · 13/12/2023 11:40

Crababbles · 13/12/2023 09:13

The more you let him opt out, the less confidence and resilience he’s building. How do you plan to help him get those skills?

He is 5, and under assessment for SEN. Now is not the time to start ramming life lessons down his throat. There are plenty of other opportunities in the future, WHEN OP has had the assessment to work practically and logically to build up her son IF he has the capability to do so.

Nicole1111 · 13/12/2023 11:42

In the longer term, and if your ds can reach a place where he joins activities like this, of course there can be benefit to him being included, but forcing him in to something will only traumatise him and make him less likely to do it. Taking a child centred approach is the best way with things like this so I think it was ok not to force him, but that moving forwards you could work on strategies with him and the school to support his inclusion. Having an assessment may well help inform that plan. In terms of the relative I wonder if their view comes from a place of concern?

bananasstink · 13/12/2023 11:43

He needs to know he will be listened ri and his parents are his safety net. Of course you did the right thing. It's a school nativity and he wasn't Joseph so no one would have thought it strange he suddenly wasn't there!

Fernsfernsferns · 13/12/2023 11:48

Crababbles · 13/12/2023 09:13

The more you let him opt out, the less confidence and resilience he’s building. How do you plan to help him get those skills?

Bullshit.

You build confidence and resilience at the right time and moment.

i have two sensitive, deep thinking kids

they can get stressed by things like this

they also need to build their confidence and resilience

i help them do that by thinking carefully about the demands placed on them and whether they are necessary and / or useful.

we drop and avoid unnecessary and not useful ones (like whether a 5 year old does the nativity)

and I plan and prepare them carefully for necessary (going to school generally) or useful (a well run out of school activity i know they’ll enjoy once they’ve got settled).

It’s much more sophisticated than

’they've just got to get on with it’

which is code for ‘please conform and don’t trouble me with your feelings’

Hayliebells · 13/12/2023 11:52

I think you did the right thing. Being comfortable with performing in public is not an essential life skill. It's not one of those things people just need to get used to, a very many people will go through life never performing in public and they are totally fine. Your relative sounds lacking in any empathy, don't listen to them.

Grammarnut · 13/12/2023 11:59

Crababbles · 13/12/2023 09:13

The more you let him opt out, the less confidence and resilience he’s building. How do you plan to help him get those skills?

Resilience isn't a skill and forcing children to do things they really don't want to is a) self-defeating since it won't make them like whatever it is and b) bloody dangerous if they get the idea that if an adult says that they must, then they must, which is a huge safe-guarding issue. Resilience, or rather the ability to cope with distressing situations, will grow with experience.

Catslovenip · 13/12/2023 12:05

CurlewKate · 13/12/2023 11:24

I have adult children. One of my regrets is some of the things I made them do they didn't want to.

What he will learn from this is that someone had his back and was kind to him and understood him. An incredibly valuable lesson.

Beautifully put and this realisation (that his mum has his back) will instil confidence and resilience. This leads to a sense of security which will then give him courage to try new things.

stayathomer · 13/12/2023 12:05

Another who thinks you were totally right op

Everydayimhuffling · 13/12/2023 12:08

Another way to think about this would be that you made school accessable to him when it otherwise wouldn't be. Getting your kid into school is so, so important.

Also, for what it's worth, lots of kids at the school where I teach have accommodations as necessary. It doesn't stop them having friends.

You're doing a good job, OP.

Pookerrod · 13/12/2023 12:14

I agree, you did the right thing. Forcing a small child to do something they have deep anxiety about will only cause more problems in the future.

We have an amazing drama class here that specialises with kids who have anxiety. They have great methods that gently help children with anxiety to gradually build them into fantastic public speakers but they do this over a number of years. If his anxiety persists perhaps you could see if you have something similar local to you. But I wouldnt worry about it too much yet, he’s still so little.

Fionaville · 13/12/2023 12:16

I think you did the best you could in the circumstances and shouldn't be criticised for it.
I do think going forward, he needs to be nudged to join in a bit more. I've got a SEN child and a child who gets a bit too anxious over things (not wanting people looking them was a big thing before aged 7) The only way to get them through it is to keep trying and making adaptions.
I enrolled all my kids into a drama club. They don't have to be theatrical kids, it's more about building their confidence and being able to have fun even when people are watching or listening to them. Having the confidence to speak in a group, is a massive advantage in life and shouldn't be underestimated.