Dh wants my son to move out

[timingout]

I have a son from a previous marriage who is 23 and he moved back home after his relationship broke down over a year ago.
He is very messy and quite lazy although he works long hours so is only lazy at home and has a very disrespectful attitude, he also doesn't listen to dh as he's not his dad.
He works with cars so comes home with black hands and although he showers our walls are covered in black greasy marks just like his bedroom.
He has a shower and leaves wet towel on the floor and no matter how many times he's asked he never opens the bathroom window which we ask.

Any chats about it result in either him walking off in a huff or jumping on the defensive and arguing back or just agreeing to what's being asked of him only to continue as he is.
It's coming between dh and I as we feel we've no privacy, he's always there rarely goes out after work so often when we're talking he'll suddenly appear or he's quietly been there all along he comments on what we're watching and make snide remarks about the show or whoever is on it.

He is my son and I love him but I can see my marriage breaking in front of my eyes and I feel helpless because I can't control my sons attitude/cleanliness and if I ask him to leave because of my marriage I think I'd lose him and I don't know where he'd go.
Dh hasn't said he wants him to move out but I can see he's had enough and is at breaking point. It's so stressful I don't know what direction to turn in.

I got as far as "He is very messy and quite lazy" before I thought 'yeah, he needs to move out'.

"He is my son and I love him but I can see my marriage breaking in front of my eyes and I feel helpless because I can't control my sons attitude/cleanliness and if I ask him to leave because of my marriage I think I'd lose him and I don't know where he'd go."
Well for starters you are not asking him to leave 'because of your marriage'. You are asking him to leave because he is very messy and shows you no respect. He is trashing your house without a care in the world - THAT is why you are asking him - no, wait, that is why you are TELLING him that he is leaving.

You are doing him no favours by putting up with his behaviour. You are actually training him to be a lazy feckless arsehole, because his behaviour is consequence-free. He needs to change, and for that to happen he needs a reason to change. Suffering the consequences of his own behaviour is what it's going to take.

I think we can all guess why his relationship broke down.

I don’t understand it when you say he is coming between you and your DH. It sounds as though you and your DH are on the same page about this. He is driving you both mad.

To put it another way, if you were single would you still be at the end of your tether struggling to live with his behaviours? If the answer is yes then there is nothing to feel conflicted about. He either shapes up or leaves. Give him a deadline to improve or he finds himself somewhere else to live.

Out of interest, is it the family home he was brought up in, ie your family home, or one you've bought with your DH?

Your DS is wrong in both situations, but if it's your DH's house too, then that's even worse!

@timingout
No wonder his relationship fell apart if that's the way he treats the house, his partner was prop sick of cleaning up after him, I wouldn't let a 13 year old treat my house like that never mind a 23 year old, you make the mess you clean it end off.

Flipping heck. It sounds like if your DH was his actual dad, he'd have been out on his arse a long time ago! He's 23, not 15! Seems like it is only your fear of being perceived to choose your DH over him that is allowing him to stay while treating you both like shit on his shoe (and he is probably using that fear to his advantage). Honestly, he is old enough that he should be making his own way, and it's not doing him any favours either to let him keep depending on you and treating you as servants.

If he cares about you as a person (not just as a housekeeper/source of funding), he will still care about you while living elsewhere and becoming independent (and will probably come to appreciate you both more, once he's had a taste of having to look after himself). If he doesn't care about you as a person, then why would you pander to him like this anyway, better to get rid as that's not going to change by letting him stay while treating you both with total contempt!

Surely there needs to be an ultimatum - you agree to x, y and z rules (eg wet towels not left on floor, clear up in the kitchen after you've used it) if you want to continue to live here. Put it in writing, even. Otherwise you will have to find somewhere else to live as we all need to respect each other's space as adults.

Has he always been like this or could he be depressed? It doesn’t sound like he’s in a great place after his relationship breakdown. Obviously it’s having an impact on you and your partner but maybe there’s something more at the root of it that’s stopping him getting his life back together.

Not to get off track, but I hope you're doing well in your recovery from psychosis.

This sounds such a tough situation for you, stuck between DH and DS.
DS is old enough to understand and to take on board the problems that he is causing through. A bit of consideration from him would start to fix things. His behavior at the moment sounds so disrespectful.
I think you need to be really tough and give him an ultimatum, maybe with a written agreement about behaviors and your expectations. If he won’t comply then I think you have to give him notice to leave and find somewhere else to love, for DH sake. Really hard for you though xx

If I were your husband, I’d be walking. I wouldn’t put up with that from my own child or my partners.

Im a mental health practitioner. There is nothing in this post to suggest he is depressed.

Even if he were my kid I’d have enough of that!
he sounds extremely rude and entitled.

He’s also 23. Move out and live alone if you don’t want to abide by the rules, buddy.

He's 23 ffs and taking the absolute piss. He needs to move out

if I ask him to leave because of my marriage I think I'd lose him

Don't ask him to leave because of your marriage, then. Ask him to leave because he seems incapable of acting towards you with basic consideration, and because he needs to be independent.

We've had three sons. They would have been asked to leave as men if they had behaved like this

but as things stand, he may well be angry because he has no home any more.

Well he's been living with the OP and her DH for over a year. I'd hardly call him homeless.

I believe 23 is still young. He’s still a young man finding his place in the world. It’s impossible to earn enough these days to rent your own place, let alone buy. Ideally I imagine it’s not great for him living with you and your other half and I imagine he feels like a spare part most of the time which is quite sad. And his dad is living with his other family. I appreciate he’s annoying leaving towels on the floor (my kids are the same at times) and his greasy hand marks. The sarcastic remarks about the TV you’re watching sound to me like he’s unhappy and it’s coming out in his comments. I’m wondering if he has much of a social life. I don’t think it’s right to ask him to leave unless his behaviour got worse. Is there any way of doing things together out the house to give you all a break and build bonds such as a day out together somewhere. Or you and your son go out for a pub meal together one afternoon and you and your other half go away one Saturday afternoon and evening. I’d give it time, it’s difficult for you all.

AKA WEAPONISED 3INCOMPETENCE

I read the title and was coming on to say "don't chose your dh over your son" but then I read your post.

Don't ask your son to leave because of your dh. Tell him to leave because his behaviour is horrible. No roommate would put up with this. You don't need to either. he is an adult with a job. He needs to find his own accommodation right now. Give him a month's notice and tell him after that he cannot live in your home anymore. Leave your dh out of it entirely. If he says to you "it's your dh making me leave" say "no, it is your behaviour that is making you leave. Dh has nothing to do with this"

I have children aged 22, 23 and 27. the younger two live with us - just graduated, first jobs, saving to move out in a hot rental market. All of them have a home here if ever they need it - ever - 23, 33 or 43. But I would tell any of them to leave - I would insist on it - if they ever behaved like your son is behaving.

Yep. It's not working, he's acting like a sulky 13yo, he's damaging your home and making you upset and your h ill. he needs to move out ASAP.

It's not an answer to the big question but I do recommend Lava soap- my dad worked with cars/ motorbikes and used it to get the oil off his hands

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lava-Heavy-Duty-Cleaner-Moisturizers-Twin-Pack/dp/B000JJMBSG

It sounds like your son might not be very happy either- maybe he feels 'stuck' and needs you to be firm and help him form some kind of short and long-term plan for getting himself together. Leaving things to continue as they are is just a breeding ground for resentment and will hurt your relationship.

This is all on you to be frank. I’d be dragging mine by the ear (literally) to the kitchen to clean up, and standing there while they cleaned the walls to my satisfaction, and if necessary repaint using their own money to buy quality paint. Yes, I do have adult kids living at home while saving g to be able to own (deposit is easy part, need to get a high enough deposit so repayments are doable).

I'm surprised by your husband's restraint.

What was he like as a teenager? Have you and DH been living on your own for long before he moved back home?

Given that he's 23 I think that its reasonable to have a conversation about when he is going to move out from a his-independence point of view rather than from everything-he's-doing-wrong point of view.

If you're reasonably well off financially telling him that you've saved some of his rent for him to use to cover his deposit and first months rent would go a long way towards making that conversation easier, and facilitate him moving.

I'd also say if he isn't out much and doesn't seem to have much of a social life, that steering him in the direction of shared housing would be a good idea.