Dh wants my son to move out

[timingout]

I have a son from a previous marriage who is 23 and he moved back home after his relationship broke down over a year ago.
He is very messy and quite lazy although he works long hours so is only lazy at home and has a very disrespectful attitude, he also doesn't listen to dh as he's not his dad.
He works with cars so comes home with black hands and although he showers our walls are covered in black greasy marks just like his bedroom.
He has a shower and leaves wet towel on the floor and no matter how many times he's asked he never opens the bathroom window which we ask.

Any chats about it result in either him walking off in a huff or jumping on the defensive and arguing back or just agreeing to what's being asked of him only to continue as he is.
It's coming between dh and I as we feel we've no privacy, he's always there rarely goes out after work so often when we're talking he'll suddenly appear or he's quietly been there all along he comments on what we're watching and make snide remarks about the show or whoever is on it.

He is my son and I love him but I can see my marriage breaking in front of my eyes and I feel helpless because I can't control my sons attitude/cleanliness and if I ask him to leave because of my marriage I think I'd lose him and I don't know where he'd go.
Dh hasn't said he wants him to move out but I can see he's had enough and is at breaking point. It's so stressful I don't know what direction to turn in.

Come in now, @timingout, it's obvious that your adult son has no respect for you, for your husband, or the home the two of you provide.

You've given him enough warnings, now give him an ultimatum- and stick to it. He needs to find alternative accommodation and needs to leave by the second week of January, say. No longer - you need for him to focus his mind and to support your husband, who's being made ill by this situation. Ideally both you and your husband should tell him this decision.

Your son will, of course, bitterly complain that you are throwing him out, he's got nowhere to go, etc. But it's time he stood on his own two feet. When he leaves, take his keys or, better yet, change your locks so he can't just keep bouncing back.

I think a poster suggested you'd pay the deposit on his new place plus the first months rent - that's a good idea, then after that he needs to fund himself.

I think your husband has been very patient - you need to decide how much you're willing to step up by being supportive to him, especially as he's being adversely affected by your son's uncaring behaviour. Or you may find he takes the decision to separate from you and just get out of a situation he's do unhappy with. 🌹

Your son is taking the piss. Can you help him find a one bed flat? Rather than tell him to move out present him with some solutions you’ve found on Rightmove or something so he knows you’ll support him. But at 23 he should be more respectful.

No it wasn't the family home he grew up in, we moved to a bigger house but stayed in the same area when he moved out but there's still a bedroom.

He isn't depressed he's always been like it but he moved in with his ex at 19 so was still a teen and he's still behaving the same way.

I was glad he moved back home because all the time he lived with his ex (3 years) he didn't stay in contact with our family or his dads his ex didn't like us or his dad and family so he didn't see us so now he's back I'm probably tip toeing round him more than usual so not to lose him again but it's going to be at the cost of losing my husband at this rate or at least our happiness.
I have tried talking to ds but he just rolls his eyes and walks away, for eg if I moan about mess in the kitchen he'll respond with "oh do know what I just won't eat anymore" so it's impossible to find a solution.

He's been offered a small flat by a family member who has property to let, but he's not interested in what he considers a pokey flat and is happy at home.

It's not impossible to find a solution, the solution is pretty simple.

He sorts it out or he leaves.

I don't understand why you're allowing such disrespect in your own home.

Honestly, you would be doing him a favour. Insist on respect. He will learn from it, and hopefully be a better person for the lesson.

There is a solution. Just not one you want to choose. I bet he knows that. He sounds like a petulant child in a manipulative grown man's body.

I suspect your husband feels similar.

Of course he's not interested in that, he needs someone to clear his shit up (that means you)

Well, of course he's happy at home. He's being allowed to behave terribly. Give him a date to move out and help him find places to stay if needed, but he has to go.

Withdrawing from socialising and living in messy surroundings is exactly what I’m like when I’m depressed. Your ability to assess someone’s mental well-being from second hand biased limited information online is pretty alarming. Especially as mental illness in men is drastically under recognised and under appreciated in this country. I simply asked the question “could he be depressed” which is a totally valid question. No need to shoot it down.

'He's been offered a small flat by a family member who has property to let, but he's not interested in what he considers a pokey flat and is happy at home.'

OP. It's not his choice anymore.

I’d be leaving you to it and moving out if I was your husband. You are being quite pathetic OP putting up with that disgraceful behaviour and it is so unfair to your husband having to put up with that in his own home.

How long has DH been in your son's life?

I'd suspect he has ADHD or a mental health issue if he's not aware of his hands being dirty and covered in oil.

What was he like as a teenager?

Because if he was always like this, then you seem to be expecting him to change from what you previously accepted from him as being OK with you.

It was OK before for him to leave dirty towels on the bathroom floor now because DH is there, it isn't OK. Would that be right?

Does he go out to work or does he work with cars on the premises?

Sounds like you have two big Baby Men under your roof, as I suspect DH is acting out and huffy with you because of your son.

@timingout

it's impossible to find a solution.

That's nonsense. Have you got 'doormat' tattooed on your forehead? Solution: issue ultimatum to shape up or ship out. That's all. For Christ's sake, he gets surly if you mention the mess he makes and all you can do is flap your hands and go 'oh dear'.

Well yes he does have ADHD and finds cleaning difficult but then I also have ADHD and find cleaning difficult, difference is I still do it though plus all his cleaning, washing, cooking and picking up random things he leaves around.

It's his backchat that gets to me because how do you talk to someone who jumps to their defence all the time, denies any wrongdoing and walks off mid conversation.
If I said you're disrespectful to us, he'd say no I'm not and walk away.

Yes to this. He's not even having to do research and find himself a home - it's pretty much landed in his lap.

Time for action from you and your husband OP. You may secretly want your son to stay but it's a poor situation for all three if you. 🌹

well, OP, if i were your DH i would be moving out permanently and leaving you to your lovely son.

You know what you have to do, either you and your son move into the "pokey flat" and get on and sell your and DH house, or you pack up all his things while he's out and move him into it.

You're in charge of this not your son.

Move his stuff into the flat and change the locks.
Unfortunately right now he is lost to you anyway.
He is using you and is showing you he doesn't respect or like you.
He is aware of the impact its having on your relationship and he doesn't care.
Sign post the freedom programme for him if you believe his ex was controlling and adult help for his ADHD but its his decision to improve or wallow.
Right now there is no reason for him to be anything other than a petulant manchild who resents the air you breathe.

I've been in your situation, OP. Giving house space for years an adult son who behaved much like your and clearly doesn't give a toss about anyone else - all at the expense of my marriage. He did clear off eventually and yes, my fears came true. He barely maintains contact. Effectively I've 'lost' him.

Here's the thing, OP: I no longer care. I went through a lot of therapy and a long period of grieving, and much soul-searching about how his childhood might have contributed to his selfishness and lack of connection (though none of his siblings are the same).

I can't force him into emotional maturity, it's up to him. I got to a point where I admitted to myself that although I love him and will always feel a certain responsibility towards him, I don't like him very much and have little desire to spend time around him. I've also accepted he'll probably never change.

Completely agree.

You seem to be under the impression that he gets the final say in this.

That if he says he's not being disrespectful, that's the matter closed as he's decided it's closed.

That if he doesn't want to move into the flat, that's the matter closed as he's decided it's closed.

OP he has no respect for you and doesn't care about your feelings or quality of life.

The greatest gift you can give him is a sharp shock of telling him he has until a certain date to leave. He isn't going to change for as long as he lives with you, he needs to get out of that environment to have any chance of becoming a mature adult capable of looking after himself.

Reframe kicking him out in your head. It's not punishing him, it's helping him to grow the fuck up,

Do NOT do the cowardly thing and blame it on your husband when you tell DS he needs to leave. It will allow him to play the victim and position your DH as the bad guy, if you do that, your DH will quite rightly be furious with you especially after he's been so bloody patient,

You're doing your DS no favours by allowing him to behave so disgustingly.

In the kindest way, I’m sure you think you’re helping him but if you don’t do something now you may be setting him up for a lifetime of difficulties as if he behaves like this with friends, partners and employers he’s going to struggle. It would actually be doing him a favour to make him take accountability for his behaviour and experience a consequence (such as being expected to move out) because he would then be more likely to evaluate the way he behaves and try and do something about it.

I guess ADHD comes with rejection sensitive dysphoria also, for both of you.
But your son sounds very emotionally immature and you have the benefit of a few decades on him.

When asking your son to do things, use the word 'I' as in 'I want the towels picked up' not 'we'.

Because all the 'we' want you to do this is not really the case.

Because then he is hearing is as 'me and DH' or 'DH told me to tell you'.

There's a lot of 'we' in your posts, yet you say that DH doesn't parent DS at all, DH just complains to you about it and puts the pressure on you.

But DH has to stop 'making himself ill' over it. That's just acting out.

I get that you feel pulled apart at the seams trying to please both of them because you love both of them and don't want to upset either of them and have them push you away as a result of that. It's really hard.

If your son lives in the house then he's entitled to come down and watch the telly in his own sitting room in his own house. He shouldn't be made feel bad or unwelcome about that.

You can't really expect privacy as such in such an arrangement.

Does your DH make any effort with DS? Does he take him out for a pint, or talk to him about cars or sports or whatever, or does DH just sniff and walk out of the room.

I've spoken to dh and we're going to sit down and have a chat with him tonight, dh says it has to be tonight because he's at breaking point and can't live like this anymore.
He thinks firm ground rules such as no loud bass music at night, straight in and shower/change after work before coming down, tidy up after himself and respect us and our house and drop the attitude and snide remarks he can stay for a while so long as he's saving with the intention of getting on his feet and finding somewhere soon which we'll help with and actively work towards that or he's going to have to go if he doesn't agree and actually demonstrate change.
He also needs to listen to dh even if he's not his dad but because he's living in a home we both pay a mortgage for.
If he's not prepared to hear out our rules and respectfully accept them then he can find a friend to put him up or his dads sofa but he can't keep destroying the house dh and I work so hard to make our home.

They do have a good bond and are close when they are out and dh does a lot for him, he always goes to dh for advice or to have a moan or tell a funny story, it's not all doom and gloom but dh hates the black hands on the walls and feels like he's talking to a brick wall (a very rude one) he does like him but he doesn't want a dirty home or to be cleaning up after a grown man.
He finds it embarrassing if friends call by and there's filthy walls he only painted in the summer and bags coats and shows strews across the lounge and kitchen where he's taken them off and he can't say anything without getting lip.