To tell my friend her ds is a shit?

[MidnightMidwinter]

I made friends with a very lovely lady 11 years ago through our NCT group. We’re really close - been on holiday together multiple times, always round each other’s houses etc. Our sons were in the same class at primary school and were pretty good friends, mainly because we did stuff all together at weekends though, tbh, as they’re both very different kids.

Both our DSs have started at the same secondary in September. DS and friend’s DS were put in different tutor groups and no longer really hang out at all as friend’s DS is sporty and play football at lunchtimes and my ds doesn’t. We live pretty rurally and it’s a 45 minute journey door to door. They get the bus Mon-Weds but I give them a lift on Thursday and Friday as it’s on my route. Friend’s DS lived about 100m away from us so not going out of my way at all to pick him up and it’s just what you do, isn’t it?

Anyway, in about May I got a converted van that I use as my car. It’s my pride and joy and I try and keep it as clean as possible as never had a nice vehicle before. Every time I’ve given friend’s DS a lift he’s immediately started eating his lunch in the van and I ask him not to. He huffs and rolls his eyes but will eventually put his sandwich away, always after having made an seemingly deliberate amount of mess in doing so. Not just a few crumbs but smears of jam on the seats/ crisps stamped into the floor kind of thing.

On Thursday I dropped them off, said “gooodbye” and friends DS opened his hand, showed me 4 little black plastic things and smirked at me. I was confused and didn’t think much more about it. Then on Friday I noticed he was fiddling with the sliding curtain that goes across the window next to where he sits. I ask him to stop as I need to see out of the window and again he huffs, rolls eyes and says “fine” before carrying on for a few seconds and eventually stopping.

Cleaning out the van this weekend I open the sliding door and the curtains just fall off their runners. Looking at the opposite window I see there are little black plastic bits on the end of each runner to stop this happening. I’m 99% sure this is what friend’s DS showed me on Thursday morning and then he then decided to unthread the curtains on Friday on purpose.

I’m so bloody angry with him. It’s such a nasty thing to do and I almost feel like I’m being bullied by an 11yo! I know if I tell his mum it will be a huge issue - she’s forever going on about people making things up to get him into trouble, convinced that he’s a very sweet boy, just overconfident and that people don’t like that. But he’s not, he’s just a shit. I am absolutely not giving him lifts anymore.

I thought I’d give it a few days to make sure I wasn’t blowing it out of proportion but I’m still furious. AIBU to tell my friend this or am I just being over precious about my van?

I think you need to keep things fairly short & snappy. Something like 'Hi Mother of Damian, it's become clear that the lifts aren't something your evil little bugger enjoys, so it's best we don't continue with them. Also, if he can return the curtain hooks he broke off & took with him, I'd very much appreciate that as replacements aren't available.'

For those who say young kids can't be little shits... oh my. There was a boy in reception class with DS who made every other child's life a misery. I was even warned by two teachers not to let DS become too close. The horrible thing was that his mum was absolutely lovely, but completely useless at dealing with him. In the end the rest of us would just leave parties, the park, etc. if they turned up because she'd just laugh and say 'oh you're SO energetic!' whilst her son was kicking other children in the shins, pulling their hair, and so on, until the room was filled with 25 crying 5yo children & this horrible boy being praised for his enthusiasm. And before anyone says anything, no, he didn't have ADHD, etc. He was just a boy who had never been told he wasn't the messiah.

This. With just one difference - I wouldn't give the little shit another chance to damage my vehicle, so I'd be saying that I sadly wouldn't be able to take him any more. If his DM doesn't like it, tough, let her cope with the little brat!

I would tread very carefully, I like @AllyArty's advice. He has the makings of a bully and I'd want to make sure I wasn't leaving my son exposed.

She's unlikely to believe you or take your side based on past behaviour so I can't see you telling her what happened will change things. I'd make my excuses about the lifts and try to find a replacement myself, he's not going to still have them anyway.

What a little shit, definitely on his way to becoming a big shit.

Or you can get putty stuff to mend charger wires with. I’ll see if I can find a link.

Ah. It’s called Sugru moldable glue.

YANBU, I had a very sadly similar situation with a long term friend who lived very close.

When our DD's went up to secondary school they pretty soon parted ways, although we stayed family friends.

One time, in the throes of the early covid lockdown when we were allowed to meet outside but not go in people's houses I arranged to meet my friend and her DC after at work at, say, 5.

Anyway, for some unknown reason my friend texted me at 4PM saying she was sending the kids over to me.

I had a work call that I could not absent myself from in any way (I am a psychologist, it was a private counselling session, I could not answer the door or explain anything). So...just as my call was about to start and the kids arrived at the door I leaned out of the window and said - "you need to go home, we'll come and see you at five."

About a week later we got an 'anonymous' card through the post addressed to my husband saying "I love you, have you told the bitch yet?" (referring to me).

For reasons I won't go in to we worked out it was friend's DD.

Absolutely fucking galling to have a child I've known since she was tiny, treated as one of my own, cared for, cooked for, picked up from school etc do something so downright fucking horrible.

So yes, YANBU to cut off helping out this child and if he's anything like my friend's DD (now 16, physically assaults her Mum and younger sister and refuses to go to school) you are better off cutting ties now.

"Damian" 🤣😅🤣😅

This 100 %. If we all went around dropping friends and holding zero tolerance boundaries without acknowledging bonds with people, society would fall apart.

You've know this lad for some years, he's been part of your close knit family life. How about just starting with the basics of speaking honestly to him; that it upset you he took the black things and didnt listen to your rules about eating in the van. so much so you are considering not taking him anymore.
And before this, repeat your feelings honestly to the mum, a close friend of yours.
And give them a chance to make amends.

Ditto. So sad to lose a good friend this way but the same thing happened to me. My DS, at this age, was a total pain in the bum but so was his best friend whose mother I was very close to.
At parent's evening I was waiting to speak to a teacher who was in the process of telling friend that her DS had to keep being moved in class as he wouldn't stop talking and was very rude when asked to stop. My 'friend', who didn't know I was standing behind said "I suppose you have to move him to keep him away from the bad influence of..." my DS!
I was gob smacked. I'd never shied away from criticism as I knew he was a handful but she genuinely could not accept that her DS ever did anything wrong.
I didn't tell her I'd heard this but the friendship drifted eventually.
It often makes me wonder if some mums feel they should never be honest about their DC's behaviour for fear it will be used against them?

ONG!! What happened? Did you tell the friend what her DD had done?

If our son had deliberately done such a thing like this I would want to know. The more times people call him out for this type of behaviour the more his Mum will have to face up to it. You have to tell her as yes it is vindictive and unacceptable.

Just a thought but if there are other curtains in the van, could you remove one of the bits and have it 3D copied? They seem to be able to 3D print everything.

@t1dmama I didn't tell her mother, no, because she was in the throes of an abusive relationship which I knew was affecting all of them.

I understood that the DD was hurting herself, and I love my friend.

But I did take an almighty step back, which wasn't actually hard to do as my friend kind of lost interest in me anyway when she moved away and started a new relationship.

I’ve no plans on dropping friends, I’d love to be able to stay friends with her. I absolutely will not be giving her son anymore lifts, though. If she feels that’s reason enough to end our friendship then it clearly means less to her than I hoped.

My boundaries haven’t been zero tolerance. I’ve continued to give him lifts since September despite him constantly refusing to respect my rule of not eating in the car and has gone beyond and actively made a mess while eating/ putting away the food after I repeatedly tell him. It’s the active destruction of my property and the smirk with which he showed me that was my line in the sand.

It wasn’t the mother who bullied my daughter but their child - one of a group. It was in primary school and was dealt with effectively.
We are still good friends and are both well aware that our offspring are far from perfect - they still dislike each other and always have. The school dealt with the issue and we barely discussed it.

The mum is one of the kindest people I know. We just don’t go ‘there’ if that makes sense?

Apologies the above was in reply to @Cerealkiller4U

@MirabelMadrigal Well she’s almost an adult now and we go on holiday with the family involved so I think that speaks for itself.

When things happen at school it was my judgement to involve the school rather than have a row. I was never at the school gates anyway being a teacher myself.

If I’d witnessed it of course I’d intervene!

OP you sound super sensible - good luck with it all and if it doesn’t work out then it wasn’t meant to be.

@Justonemorecoffeeplease - you go on holidays with a girl who has bullied your daughter? And your daughter and the girl still dislike each other?

Eh? Sorry if I have misread!

Just be factual and unemotional. Be clear about the time scale you’ve put up with it just because you didn’t want to upset her

Good luck talking to friend tomorrow about her little satan! Hope she hears you and apologises and understands the reasons her son will now be doing the 45 minute journey everyday on public transport! It’s great he learns now that his behaviour = consequences.

You need to tell her that her son is letting her down. Explain about the food, the crisps and the curtains. Hopefully she's a good enough person to be embarrassed and accept that her son no longer deserves the lifts you've been giving him.

If he buys you new curtain thingys and has a grovelling apology you can reconsider of course. But sadly some 11 y/o are just poops.

We've had a similar experience, although have always been aware the boy was a s**t from a very young age, rather than it becoming apparent at high school.

But trust me, with parents that see their child as an angel, there is no getting through to them. The boy in question here has literally gotten physical with other kids, and even when she's witnessed it herself, the mother has still found a way to excuse it.

@BoredofBlonde Last message on my experience. Mild bullying from almost a decade ago. We supported her fully. Dealt with at the time by school and we discussed it fully with my DD. Daughter is fine and chooses to come on breaks with us - is good friends with the family involved just not that particular child who doesn’t always come anyway.
My point was that you can navigate through this with friendships in tact. However as I said in my earlier post I also would walk away from the friendship in OP ‘s situation if the mother refuses to address ‘Damien’s’ behaviour.

*Lemondoughnut · Yesterday 22:50

Just a thought but if there are other curtains in the van, could you remove one of the bits and have it 3D copied? They seem to be able to 3D print everything*

Most people haven’t the time to start getting 3D printing and all the mental load that entails just to repair someone else’s destruction of their property.

This boy should be the one getting things 3D printed and paid for and then putting everything back together

Why should op be the one to do it.

If he doesn’t and op has to waste her time then this boy should have his time wasted. No more lifts. Let him and his mother waste their time walking to and from bus stops and spend extra time on the bus instead of being delivered to school in half the time in a heated vehicle