What is worse? Fat or unhappy?

[alphamonkey]

Over the years I've been up and down constantly with my weight. To stay slim I really have to work at it. But unfortunately I really love food. I don't get out much with young dc and I derive a lot of enjoyment from looking forward to a takeaway and a few glasses of wine at the weekend. Or a cup or tea and a chocolate bar before bed. Or a nice sandwich from the deli for lunch. You get the idea. Sure, I could find healthier/lower calorie options but I simply don't enjoy them as much.

However I also don't like looking at photos of myself and being taken aback at how much weight I've put on. I don't like having to get changed 20 times before work or a night out because I'm so self conscious about what clings to me.

I'm at the stage where I feel like I'm always going to be unhappy one way or the other because I simply can't carry on eating the way I do and expect to lose weight. I'm either fat and happy or thinner and hungry/miserable.

Maybe if life was different - I.e I could get out a bit more and mix up my routine I wouldn't have the time to focus on food so much. But with mine and dh work patterns and the dc it's not an option right now.

I'm a size 14 and about 12 stone but in my late thirties now and I know if I keep eating like I am I will get bigger. The weight doesn't seem to come off as easily as it used to even when I do make a conscious effort. None of my efforts seem to last long though because I give in and eat crisps or drink wine again. Because I enjoy it.

So what are your thoughts? I really am getting depressed with the way I look but I just don't want to give up the things I enjoy.

You don't have to choose. You can be slim and happy.

I am older than you, early 60s. I was slim until I was about 45 and then gradually got fatter and fatter. I kidded myself it was menopause and that middle aged women couldn't lose weight and I put up with it. I pretended I didn't care that I was 5ft tall, a size 14/16ish and my BMI was approaching 30. Despite all this I was fit, exercised a lot and hadn't seen a doctor for years. I thought I was healthy.

Two years ago I had a dental operation and tests for that revealed I had very high BP. The dentist recommended seeing my GP - my worst nightmare. I hate doctors and avoid them as much as I can. So I decided to change my diet and see if that improved things. If my BP didn't improve after 3 months I'd visit the dreaded GP.

I switched from eating processed and ultra processed foods to eating loads of fresh fruit , veg and salad plus small amounts of protein (pulses, eggs, cheese, Greek yoghurt, meat or fish). I cut right back on butter, cream, bread and pasta (my main food groups before). I didn't measure portions or count calories. I just ate lots of healthy things and tiny amounts of less healthy things. And I found I loved the new foods. My taste buds totally changed.

After three months my BP was in a healthy range and to my amazement I had dropped two dress sizes. After 9 months I had dropped to a size 8 and I'm still that way 2 years on. My energy levels are off the charts and I love my new life style.

I'm not a fanatic about it. I still love wine and gin. I have the occasional chocolate, burger or bowl of chips. If I'm eating out I pick what I fancy, not what's healthy. I had a McMuffin for breakfast one day last week and it was delicious but overall my tastes have changed. I find if I don't eat right for a day my body starts to crave green veg and some chickpeas. I love the healthy foods just as much as the occasional junk food. It's been a revelation.

That Kate Moss quote, I used to think she just needed a really good slice of cake and she'd soon change her mind.
Now I've lost weight I agree with her, I could eat something that is tasty and enjoy every mouthful but the happiness it gives only lasts as long as the time spent eating it, it's temporary. Is it worth that half an hour of happiness if the other 23.5 hours of the day you're unhappy in your own body?

Regarding the Kate Moss quote, I do agree to some extent but surely it's not a choice between never eating nice things ever and staying slim? Isn't there a balance?

Given a choice, I would rather be a normal size 10-12 and have regular meals, eat out now and then, have the odd takeaway, drink a glass of wine of an evening, have a cake or bar of chocolate now and then all in moderation than be a dieted-into-submission size 4 and have to watch every morsel then goes into my mouth for fear of gaining weight and living on a calorie ration that wouldn't look out of place in a concentration camp.

I once read Victoria Beckham's daily eating plan and I thought can you imagine going into a restaurant and eating a side salad without dressing whilst everyone else has got steak and chips? Just no.

Well no, no one said it was those extremes. And we aren’t discussing being a size 4.

Yes there's a balance but if you're overweight or regularly eating unhealthy food then the balance has tipped hasn't it?
People are "treating" themselves to something that is actually damaging to their body. We know that being overweight can cause numerous health problems but it's so bloody difficult not to reward ourselves with something that tastes good.

Speaking as a truly fat person - I have lipoedema - being unhappy is way worse than being fat. I give thanks regularly that although I have a fat body my mental health and abilities are excellent, my life is full of joy and my baseline every day happiness is 6/10 just waking up (when I have had enough sleep).

However:

This isn't about food, is it?

Food shouldn't make you happy so much so that it makes you fat. Over restriction can make you miserable, yes. Worry about being fat will make you unhappy. Looking in the mirror and wanting to see someone else's reflection will make you unhappy.

The ideal space is where you accept your body for it's good points, come to terms with it's imperfections and have a balanced attitude to food. Knowing about nutrition and building good patterns too.

We know that being overweight can cause numerous health problems but it's so bloody difficult not to reward ourselves with something that tastes good

that’s a very specific mindset though. Lots share it but it’s not everyone by far. I don’t see food as a reward. I don’t see it as treating myself, it doesn’t occur to me that I am rewarding myself. However I can over eat and do so for prolong periods, and gain a lot of weight. As said earlier I went up to an 18. Second time I’ve done it. Wasn’t as I was rewarding myself it was lazyness, greed, want. I ate as I did because I wished to. I wanted the food more than I wanted to be slim. And it’s important for me to own that. Because if I moved into I deserve it, it’s a reward, it’s so difficult, I’d never loose weight.

i need to own the fact i went through a lazy greedy period after stopping smoking. And all the people in real life I know say the same. They overate because they wanted to. They didn’t exercise as they should, as they couldn’t be arsed.

There are def ways to enjoy food without piling on the weight. Ditch ultra processed as much as possible, ignore ‘fat free’ claims as they’ll be full of sugar or sweetener (worse).
can you cut down on wine, so one glass instead of two, or fewer takeaways possibly? Better quality, but less chocolate?
i am on a special
medical type diet but still have the belly (am early 50s), despite losing about 9lbs. Am a 10-12 - smaller on top.

Low carb - not 'no carb', before anyone jumps on me - has to be the way to go, surely?

Carbs only leave you feeling satiated for a short time but spend a long time making you fatter.

Reducing carb portions is such an easy way to still eat exactly what you enjoy (within reason) whilst keeping your weight in-check that I don't know why everyone doesn't do it.

Carbs have never made me fat. It’s only refined carbs that cause problems.

Aren’t you rhe lucky one.

I’d much rather be slim, so I put up with not being able to eat what I want. It doesn’t actually make me unhappy though, because I know I look good & have a healthy body.

You have to think about your health. I’d get the weight down before your 40’s & peri-menopause because it’s all a lot harder then.

I think it's interpretation too. When people refer to eating what you want - some people assume those who don't are ultra restricting. They are not. It's likely they are simply making healthy conscious choices. This does not mean you are depriving yourself of food. No one can get away with eating or drinking absolutely anything and everything for ever.

And people assume that everybody wants to eat the 'bad stuff'. Not everyone does. People do enjoy fresh food - but it is hard when ultra processed food is constantly there.

Indeed.

One gets fat from excess calories. Carbs contain plenty of those while not leaving us particularly satiated - regardless of them being refined or unrefined. Granted, refined carbs are generally more calorie-dense.

Both low mood and being overweight affect your health.

I think there is a happy medium in there which is trying to change the mindset of only food/alcohol is a treat and that denying yourself will make you miserable.

You could still have takeaway and wine but just less often.

Exercise in the house when DC are playing or sleeping.

Nothing is ever easy but you could get into better habits for your health.

I'd definitely echo the points about reducing carbs. My story is really connected to finding I had high blood sugar/type 2 diabetes even though I wasn't technically overweight. (5'10 and weighed 11 7). Long story short is that 6 months later I've potentially reversed my diabetes and weigh 9 stone. Technically underweight but not for lack of trying to put some on. I eat a low carb no sugar diet and I don't miss it really. I can still have a takeaway curry, I just have a little bit of brown rice with it and a low carb wrap. Let's face it, it's the curry you want to taste, the sides are just to carry it to your mouth more easily. I'll still have Chinese but tend to have satay with a little noodles. But I don't have them every day or even every week.

I've grown to like a little bit of 90% dark chocolate too.

I don't feel deprived.

Carbs, protein, dairy, fats, sugar, junk - all of this eaten to excess will lead to weight gain. Eating more than you burn is the issue as it will be stored as fat.

Complex carbs are necessary for a balanced diet and the body naturally burns carbs.

If you’re used to eating a lot of food and can’t feel full on complex carbs - that’s your problem, it’s not universal.

I agree. I look fat & awful at size 14. It really isn’t normal or healthy for everyone!

How tall are you? Size 14 isn't particularly large. I'm 5 foot 1 and was a 14-16 and it started to look too big. It also depends on your age. I'm 39 and I've found I'm starting to lose fat on my face as I get older so I can't get too skinny. I look better a size 10-12 which I am now. I do make an effort with hair and flattering clothes though. It makes a huge difference

Oh I see you're late 30s

All frames are different. I'm short but manage to pull off being heavier as I don't have a large stomach. It depends where you carry your weight too.

I wouldn't be happy if I was fat, so it's a simple choice for me. I would worry about my health, and I don't like the feeling of my thighs rubbing or my clothes being tight. I also enjoy clothes and want to feel confident in them. I have much more chance of being happy if I'm a healthy weight. So I eat moderately, with occasional treats.

If I were you I'd make it a health 'project'. Find a fun exercise, get an apple watch (or equivalent) and count steps, research healthy foods and recipes that allow you not to go hungry. Do youtube exercise. Rope family and friends in. I'd overhaul your lifestyle, so that slim/ healthy becomes a positive thing that makes you feel good about yourself. Allow yourself occasional treats eg weekly chocolate. It doesn't have to be a black and white choice between fat or unhappy, and it's not about denying yourself. It's about nourishing and caring for yourself.

Regarding the Kate Moss quote, I do agree to some extent but surely it's not a choice between never eating nice things ever and staying slim? Isn't there a balance?

often being able to successfully strike a balance where you can be slim & eat a lot of sweet treats/big portions depends on how active you are.

I know it’s increasingly common for people to say losing weight is 70% diet, but I managed to lose weight in my early 20s and stay slim for a long time while eating more than the average person of my size for over ten years . People would comment “where does it all go! “

I kept my weight at 8-9.5 stone mainly due to being constantly active. No weighing of food or limiting “treat days” or constantly weighing myself. I had biggish meals but wasn’t into constant snacking (aside from my daily breakfast pastries & hot drinks from Starbucks and whatever they were offering in my office 👀). But I rarely ordered takeaways for dinner. Also, I don’t drink.

I’d walk 1.5 hour - 2 hours a day through commuting sometimes a lot more if I went out again in the evening to meet friends or to the gym/ writing class etc . Even on the non-gym days I think I was burning about 600 calories daily. On especially active days probably closer to 1000 + calories.

Nowadays I work from home so have to make a concerted effort to burn calories on my walking pad and I usually only get 200-300 and I do think I have to make more choices about sacrificing larger portions and sugary treats.

There’s a lot I don’t miss about living in a city but the amount of calories I burned in a normal day was incredible. It allowed me to incorporate a lot of “treats” into my diet on a daily basis while staying slim .

But overall I don’t think it was healthy.I’m actually glad my current more sedentary lifestyle has forced me to pay more attention to my diet. Weight isn’t everything - a high sugar diet still isn’t great for you even if you’re size 8. There are many skinny unhealthy people.

The 80/20 approach is quite popular now with people aiming to eat more heathy in moderation for 80% of the time and being a bit more relaxed (not bingeing) for the other 20%

You do get to eat some nice things even in a calorie deficit, I have a chocolate advent calendar, I’m not some kind of broccoli monster. I am not sure Kate Moss is really that bothered about foods, some people just are not. Not everyone thinks about it as much as some other people do. My very slim friends aren’t really into food and don’t think about it a lot. They do eat nice things but way less often than I used to and less volume of it

i can’t just get up in the morning and drink all those sugary milky coffees, snack on random bits all morning, grab a random lunch meal deal from a shop, eat cakes and biscuits at work all day and then grab fast food or takeaways every night or a quick dinner from the freezer or a ready meal, I used to do all of that and got really overweight. I didn’t look at packets and assumed I was eating about 2,500 calories a day, which wasn’t great but I wasn’t I was eating way more than that every day. I even convinced (deluded) myself that it was just my body type and I am just naturally larger, but I am not, I was eating too much and not the right balance of foods.

the price you pay for becoming or staying slim is usually saying no to all the office cakes, or only having a very small portion occasionally, taking your time to assess all your options of lunch meals and picking something sensible - or planning it in advance and then shopping for decent evening meals and having to make them. I made DD and I seasoned chicken breasts in the air fryer, chucking some Tesco peri peri seasoning on them with grains and veg in 25 mins tonight and didn’t really have to do that much, if you don’t have time to cook intricate foods you can still buy convenient foods like frozen veg and throw them into the microwave with clingfilm on top.

This weekend we got caught in the rain in London and DP and kids went and had a McDonalds. I don’t like the McDonald’s salads (spiky leaves) and nothing else was in my calorie range of under 500 calories and particularly filling, so I went to a shop and bought a chicken pokè bowl instead and ate that. I might eat a McDonald’s again one day but I’d rather ‘spend’ my calorie allowance on other things.

I just don’t mainline bags of crisps like I used to, or eat overpriced domino’s pizzas very often

@Biscofffans this is pretty standard for a lot of women to find as they age, it’s harder to lose weight. I could lost weight so fast when I was in my 20’s but in my 40’s I can’t as easily and years of a bad diet caught up with me.