Page 5 | To not understand this trend of men waiting until middle age to commit

Ageingisaprivilegedeniedtomany · 2023-12-09T18:23:34+00:00

I've seen on here a few times and irl that early 30s is apparently too young for men to settle down these days and most don't contemplate it until nearer 40? I just don't understand tbh, 30 is relatively young but they're not 21 year olds. I'm 32 and recently left a 29 year old who wouldn't commit. My Mum keeps telling me I need someone a lot older, but tbh I don't want anyone significantly older. Also hearing that most men are ambivalent about having children and do it to keep their partners happy. Just feel a bit fed up tbh. Obviously it's a massive generalisation but I just don't get it and hope it isn't entirely true

SarahDarah · 09/12/2023 23:27

ActDottie · 09/12/2023 22:26

Wow… let’s blame women

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@ActDottie ah yes that old chestnut behaving like women don't any have choices and personal responsibility over obtaining what we want 🙄 I actually find the implication quite sexist.

I dont believe women are helpless creatures who have depend on men to make decisions that benefit women, but maybe you do 🤔

These are women freely choosing to have sex with men in uncommitted relationships/sexual encounters and both sexes are reaping the consequences of their choices: women are unfortunately finding men generally don't want to commit/commit very late/future fake despite the women wanting marriage and kids within their fertile window.

On the other hand, men enjoy going on the sex carousel using woman after woman after woman for sexual pleasure, often acting out his porn fantasies on her, until he decides (if at all) to finally settle down with a (normally) younger woman. Woman often allows him to keep one foot out of the door by staying unmarried so he can freely make a break for it any time, keeping his money intact regardless of the needs of the woman and kids.

In the meantime both happily deludedly calling each other "partner" despite having no more legal status whatsoever than a couple who got together yesterday. Cherry on top, with any kids the woman normally agrees for them to have his last name, seemingly further rewarding his lack of commitment!

Whatever you think of the morals of it, sex outside of marriage overwhelmingly favours men and it's sad to see so many women allowing themsleves to be brainwashed to go along with it all.

HamBone · 09/12/2023 23:28

I’m 49 so almost a different generation to you, OP, but still firmly in the age group where women are expected to have careers and not rush into marriage. I don’t really recognize what you’re describing, tbh. Among my friends (mid-40’s-late 50’s), the men were very eager to commit once they met the right person.

Having children obviously depends on the couple, but because happily it’s a choice nowadays, I don’t think I know any Dad’s who were pushed into having children. Either the couple has chosen to be childfree or both are enthusiastic parents.

My DH has three siblings and is the only one who’s chosen to have children. We both always wanted children, his siblings weren’t bothered. I imagine that they had that conversation early in their relationships, as we did. 🤷

My DD (18) seems to have taken after my Mum, who ditched two fiancés before marrying my Dad within a few months of meeting him. She knows what she wants and has no qualms about moving on. 🤣

coldcallerbaiter · 09/12/2023 23:32

Deadringer · 09/12/2023 20:24

As long as they have a regular supply of sex many men aren't too bothered about getting married, or having kids. I don't think that has changed at all really, it's just that years ago realistically they had to marry for sex.

This, all day long

You will get the a few that are crazy about you and push marriage and kids, mine was like that.

but you have to be worth it for them or why would they bother, they have it all their own way, not sure that is progress for women in that regard.

toomanyleggings · 09/12/2023 23:36

Wahtnow · 09/12/2023 18:30

I knownits an old fashioned view but I do think the old thing about not giving too much away too soon makes some sense. If they've essentially got a wife or all practical purposes without committing, why would they feel the need?

This is true. Heterosexual men don’t value anything they are given too free and easily. Far too many women start dating and having sex with men almost straight off the bat, see them every night, move in with them, even have kids. Then wonder why they don’t want to get married. If you want to get married, treat him like you’re dating, treat him like he’s casual, see him once, twice a week for a proper date not just sex on the sofa and a takeaway you’ve split the bill on. If he wants to see you all the time let him propose.

SarahDarah · 09/12/2023 23:37

Tukmgru · 09/12/2023 23:19

@SarahDarah I can guarantee, without a shadow of a doubt, that your Traditional Values Christian Husband is cheating on you. Likely with a man currently, and previously with a stripper or two.

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@Tukmgru

I never said I was Christian myself or married but if your fantasy of this guy cheating with strippers makes you feel better then go ahead 🤣

Clar45 · 09/12/2023 23:37

PyongyangKipperbang · 09/12/2023 22:45

I strongly disagree.

I think that a conversation on the first date along the lines of "OK so what do we both want out of dating?" is a good thing. If he says "Just looking for a bit of fun" and she says "I am looking for a LTR, kids etc" then they can have a nice evening go their seperate ways and no hard feelings. I know of more than a few who went on a few dates, wanted different things and ended up as really good friends.

Saying what you are in it for saves wasting everyones time! And I would think that these days its far more acceptable to have these convos early, what with OLD etc, than it was back in the "old days". I am 50 and when I was dating (although it wasnt called that then!) it was pretty much assumed that if you were "going out" with someone then you were exclusive from the second date onward and the end goal was marriage and kids. I am GenX, we were the switch over generation that got the stick that was shitty at both ends! None of the benefits of modern dating and none of the guarantees of "traditional" going out.

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I think you get an idea of what the other person is there for fairly quickly on a date without the direct questioning but I think direct discussion at that stage can be a bit off putting as surely you decide to marry and have kids because you’ve fallen head over heels with someone. Can see that conversation coming a few months if your at that stage and not sure if they are

SouthLondonMum22 · 09/12/2023 23:40

SarahDarah · 09/12/2023 22:56

@SouthLondonMum22 but who precisely are you referring to when you say "society"?? Society is us people, not some nebulous organisation.

Women are the ones who suffer the most from this male behaviour and we already have the agency and power to stop men taking advantage of us in this particular way, so why wouldnt we? We're not helpless little beings who have to wait for "society" to fix things for us. We have the power and need to take back this power from men.

Women can choose to put their heads in the sand and deny it all they want but it's only to their detriment and men will continue taking advantage.

I have some family from a cultural background where men can't get away with what they get away with in many Western countries. Men commit since sex is closely linked with commitment I.e. marriage and kids. They are generally better husbands and fathers; they actively want marriage and they have a real sense of responsibility and pride in sacrificing for their wife and family since it's the social norm. Because women are the ones who set out what they want and don't just give men whatever they want with no consequences.

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Well, first of all we really need to move away from language such as giving men what they want in relation to sex because women don’t ‘give’ men sex and men don’t ‘take’ consensual sex.

Frankly, I couldn’t think of anything worse than going backwards but then I don’t have or aspire to have a traditional marriage.

Blaming women for mens actions is never the answer. Some men are arseholes, that’s on them and only them.

Clar45 · 09/12/2023 23:42

SarahDarah · 09/12/2023 23:27

@ActDottie ah yes that old chestnut behaving like women don't any have choices and personal responsibility over obtaining what we want 🙄 I actually find the implication quite sexist.

I dont believe women are helpless creatures who have depend on men to make decisions that benefit women, but maybe you do 🤔

These are women freely choosing to have sex with men in uncommitted relationships/sexual encounters and both sexes are reaping the consequences of their choices: women are unfortunately finding men generally don't want to commit/commit very late/future fake despite the women wanting marriage and kids within their fertile window.

On the other hand, men enjoy going on the sex carousel using woman after woman after woman for sexual pleasure, often acting out his porn fantasies on her, until he decides (if at all) to finally settle down with a (normally) younger woman. Woman often allows him to keep one foot out of the door by staying unmarried so he can freely make a break for it any time, keeping his money intact regardless of the needs of the woman and kids.

In the meantime both happily deludedly calling each other "partner" despite having no more legal status whatsoever than a couple who got together yesterday. Cherry on top, with any kids the woman normally agrees for them to have his last name, seemingly further rewarding his lack of commitment!

Whatever you think of the morals of it, sex outside of marriage overwhelmingly favours men and it's sad to see so many women allowing themsleves to be brainwashed to go along with it all.

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Agree but I think women just don’t realise until it’s too late, young girls especially accept a lot of rubbish from guys, I see it all the time in the field I work

Aydahayda · 09/12/2023 23:43

OP, I have no idea why or how your thread has turned into “women should preserve their flower until their nuptials”, so I just wanted to say. There are good men out there. They’re hard to find. With a bit of pure luck, but lots of confidence in yourself as a woman and a person, and not taking any shit, I hope you’ll find yours soon.

to the trad wives - ew

SouthLondonMum22 · 09/12/2023 23:43

SwooningCamille · 09/12/2023 22:58

@SouthLondonMum22 See ... I'm on the fence about whether women actually enjoy casual sex, or if they are now just conditioned to think they should.

There's not much in it for a woman, biologically speaking, as women aren't made to scatter millions of eggs around in the hope that they will chance upon one fertile sperm.

I feel the opposite. It’s almost taboo for women to enjoy sex at all, after all it’s something we ‘give’ men. God forbid a woman actually enjoys casual sex.

I most definitely did.

Keilagh · 09/12/2023 23:45

SarahDarah · 09/12/2023 23:37

@Tukmgru

I never said I was Christian myself or married but if your fantasy of this guy cheating with strippers makes you feel better then go ahead 🤣

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Keeping your own culture ambiguous while saying Western women should adopt its attitudes to relationships & marriage doesn’t really further your point. I guarantee the culture you’re talking about is not as amazing for women as you make out.

Tukmgru · 09/12/2023 23:47

SarahDarah · 09/12/2023 23:37

@Tukmgru

I never said I was Christian myself or married but if your fantasy of this guy cheating with strippers makes you feel better then go ahead 🤣

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@SarahDarah I cannot even remotely fathom how you were arguing that we’re in some state of moral decline because women have sex before marriage and the decline in traditional Christian values, then.

Unless your kink is to put weird, contradictory shit out on MN, of course.

Pelham678 · 09/12/2023 23:51

I kind of blame the media and Hollywood in part for this. So many older men/younger women relationships: I mean Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta Jones 🤑, Al Pacino, George Clooney, Jeff Goldblum etc.

In real life it's much better for someone whose parents don't need a zimmer frame by the time they're at Uni, but men are influenced to think they should wait and are entitled to have a much younger partner.

I certainly wouldn't encourage my sons to wait until they're in their 40s or 50s....

Dottymug · 09/12/2023 23:52

This thread has got very weird. It's been taken over by a group of housewives from the 1960s clucking over the fence in disapproval at those modern girls with their miniskirts and contraceptive pills.

greengreengrass25 · 09/12/2023 23:54

Aydahayda · 09/12/2023 20:33

“FatFatMary · Today 20:11

Maybe it would help to refuse to sleep with them before marriage”

showed this to DP who said “in this day and age? That would be weird. I’d have thought you were a Christian fundamentalist and would’ve run a mile”

It is a fair point though

Bloodyel · 09/12/2023 23:54

Willing to bet this magical culture where women don't enjoy sex and withhold it to control men is also one of the ones where they ritually blow each other up, it's usually the trend.

greengreengrass25 · 09/12/2023 23:54

Bloodyel · 09/12/2023 20:49

I would say for men it's better to have them around 28-38 or never. Possibly younger hut it's a bit of a shame for anyone of nothing sexes to have them too young before they've had a chance to live carefree for a while. For women they can have children up to about 44 if they're able so slightly later than men, because they live longer. Men having children after their 40s is insane, they generally age quickly and suffer from less energy later on life, not to.mention generally life shorter.
You'll hear of a lot of naive young women between 22-30 having children with men in their 40s and being surprised their children have additional needs. Well duh, do you really think they produce healthy children their whole life?

Yes that's another concern

ExTheCheater · 09/12/2023 23:54

Yanbu, currently seeing a 38 year old who wants kids.... but in a few years.

greengreengrass25 · 09/12/2023 23:59

SwooningCamille · 09/12/2023 22:34

To judge by the number of adults in MN land who still "live at home" with their parents, it seems entirely likely that they still consider themselves to be glorified teenagers aged 30.

This is one of many reasons why it isn't healthy to have adult chidlren living at home.

I also agree with the PP who said that if men are having a regular supply of sex, there's no particular reason for them to want to get married. And if men can have a regular supply of sex with endless willing women, there's even less reason.

Some of the problems have arisen as a result of women trying to treat sex in the same way that men have always done/wanted to do. Whereas men scattering their billions of sperm widely is a biological thing, and women shagging around is something they have been conditioned to think is a recreational activity. In fact, it's really only for the benefit of men.

Yes I know but what are they supposed to do

Ds at home, 20 something and I wish he wasn't

greengreengrass25 · 10/12/2023 00:01

Aydahayda · 09/12/2023 23:20

Omg we’re now on “why buy the cow if you get the milk for free“
….. what’s going on today on MN?

There is truth in it though

LorlieS · 10/12/2023 00:01

@ExTheCheater Would that not work for you? Because surely it makes sense if he's going to be with someone new to wait at least a few years before considering having kids with them?

All2Well · 10/12/2023 00:03

It's frustrating and I wish someone had prepared me for this when I was in my late teens/20s so I knew to actively look for men who knew they wanted to be "young" (ie 30 year old) dads rather than wasting my time.

In my late 20s until 31 I fell in love with a guy my age who knew I wanted kids and marriage from the get go...he announced a couple of years in that he never wanted kids so I left him and it was devastating.

The same week I ended up in a relationshjp with him, a 40 year old man had approached me wanting to date me, making it clear he finally wanted to marry and settled down, have a family etc. I've never been interested in older men, so chose the 28 year old guy instead.

I'm now late 30s, single and childless still. I wonder if I'd chosen the 40 year old would I somehow have made it work and been the wife and mother I'd always longed to be.

It was really hard to find someone my own age who wanted kids. Now the men my age are finally ready, they want a 25 year old.

I feel screwed over to be honest.

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/12/2023 00:06

greengreengrass25 · 10/12/2023 00:01

There is truth in it though

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Only if you believe sex is something that women give men.

HamBone · 10/12/2023 00:07

ExTheCheater · 09/12/2023 23:54

Yanbu, currently seeing a 38 year old who wants kids.... but in a few years.

@ExTheCheater Honestly, if that doesn’t suit you, tell him and walk away. Don’t waste your time. Or if you just want to have fun with no strings, tell him that.

SarahDarah · 10/12/2023 00:07

Tukmgru · 09/12/2023 23:47

@SarahDarah I cannot even remotely fathom how you were arguing that we’re in some state of moral decline because women have sex before marriage and the decline in traditional Christian values, then.

Unless your kink is to put weird, contradictory shit out on MN, of course.

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@Tukmgru your response is typical of people who can only see things from their own narrow subjective experience and lack objectivity and understanding of facts.

Whether you or me are Christian, Buddhist, atheist, or whatever is completely irrelevant. Up until only relatively recently, it's a fact that Christianity moulded much of Western society, including UK, especially it's moral values. And there's natural consequences to any society which drops moral values and instead becomes self obsessed with individual pleasure seeking.

I'm relatively young person who's lived in the UK my whole life but even in my lifetime things have changed for the worse and many others in my age group say the same. Obviously some others e.g. those who run the porn industry and exploit countless women and young people, would disagree.