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Original poster

To not understand this trend of men waiting until middle age to commit

274 replies

Ageingisaprivilegedeniedtomany · 09/12/2023 18:23

I've seen on here a few times and irl that early 30s is apparently too young for men to settle down these days and most don't contemplate it until nearer 40?
I just don't understand tbh, 30 is relatively young but they're not 21 year olds.
I'm 32 and recently left a 29 year old who wouldn't commit. My Mum keeps telling me I need someone a lot older, but tbh I don't want anyone significantly older.
Also hearing that most men are ambivalent about having children and do it to keep their partners happy.
Just feel a bit fed up tbh. Obviously it's a massive generalisation but I just don't get it and hope it isn't entirely true

OP posts:
greengreengrass25 · 10/12/2023 00:10

There can be a cost to people's health as well such as cervical cancer

I know there is now a vaccination but that is relatively recent

greengreengrass25 · 10/12/2023 00:12

Also the poor dc who are affected by the irresponsible men who walk out and start a new relationship or have dc by other women

I know being married doesn't stop this but it is not as easy and expensive for the man

FrozenGhost · 10/12/2023 00:14

It's unpalatable but imo most women want a relationship and children with a man around their own age, who they get along with. Men want to fuck the youngest woman they can get. A 35 year old man could reasonably expect to attract a 25 year old, so there's no chance he would date a 35 year old woman - gross and old! (In his mind).

LorlieS · 10/12/2023 00:14

@greengreengrass25 "expensive for the man"? Please do elaborate...

LorlieS · 10/12/2023 00:18

@FrozenGhost So you've basically pigeonholed ALL men into one category? Not ALL men "want to fuck the youngest woman they can get." That's like saying ALL woman want to marry rich men. Absolute piffle!

greengreengrass25 · 10/12/2023 00:20

LorlieS · 10/12/2023 00:14

@greengreengrass25 "expensive for the man"? Please do elaborate...

Divorce is expensive

That's what I meant

LorlieS · 10/12/2023 00:21

@greengreengrass25 I meant "for the man" part?

mathanxiety · 10/12/2023 00:25

Wahtnow · 09/12/2023 18:30

I knownits an old fashioned view but I do think the old thing about not giving too much away too soon makes some sense. If they've essentially got a wife or all practical purposes without committing, why would they feel the need?

Agree.
Why buy the cow, etc...

HamBone · 10/12/2023 00:29

FrozenGhost · 10/12/2023 00:14

It's unpalatable but imo most women want a relationship and children with a man around their own age, who they get along with. Men want to fuck the youngest woman they can get. A 35 year old man could reasonably expect to attract a 25 year old, so there's no chance he would date a 35 year old woman - gross and old! (In his mind).

Don't be daft. I know plenty of middle-aged men who gaze adoringly at their 50-something wives/partners, they haven’t fallen out of love with her because she’s got older. Yes, they’ll notice an attractive woman walking by, as women do attractive men, but they don’t act on it.

When you love someone, you see them not as they physically are now, I.e., getting older, but as who they are in your mind. I hoped you’re loved this way one day, @FrozenGhost .

SarahDarah · 10/12/2023 00:29

Bloodyel · 09/12/2023 23:54

Willing to bet this magical culture where women don't enjoy sex and withhold it to control men is also one of the ones where they ritually blow each other up, it's usually the trend.

@Bloodyel
Nope, it's not, sorry to disappoint. It's your Western ignorance showing if those are the only types of cultures you're aware of. The "ritually blow each other up" type culture you're referring to would practise/be open to polygamy, which is certainly not pro women 😄

Also, a woman having boundaries and standards over what circumstances she wants to have and enjoy sex isn't "controlling men". That's utter sexist rubbish.

A woman has every right to decide she doesn't want to participate in no strings sex, with a man who has chosen not to commit to her. Women do not owe men sex.

LorlieS · 10/12/2023 00:39

@HamBone I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I'm 43, a bit fat, saggy in lots of places after 3 kids, and my husband fancies the pants off me! I've no idea why, but he absolutely does and I absolutely know it. He does wear glasses but you know... 😄
My first husband married me when I was 24 and before kids. I was pretty hot back then (even if I do day so myself!) He didn't really fancy me and our sex life was dire. I never felt wanted. Divorced by 35.

HamBone · 10/12/2023 00:47

Yes, he sees @LorlieS whom he adores. ❤️

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/12/2023 00:51

SarahDarah · 10/12/2023 00:29

@Bloodyel
Nope, it's not, sorry to disappoint. It's your Western ignorance showing if those are the only types of cultures you're aware of. The "ritually blow each other up" type culture you're referring to would practise/be open to polygamy, which is certainly not pro women 😄

Also, a woman having boundaries and standards over what circumstances she wants to have and enjoy sex isn't "controlling men". That's utter sexist rubbish.

A woman has every right to decide she doesn't want to participate in no strings sex, with a man who has chosen not to commit to her. Women do not owe men sex.

Show quote history

Then we need to stop acting like sex is something that women give men.

It’s also perfectly acceptable for women to want and enjoy casual sex.

Diaria · 10/12/2023 00:57

SwooningCamille · 09/12/2023 22:58

@SouthLondonMum22 See ... I'm on the fence about whether women actually enjoy casual sex, or if they are now just conditioned to think they should.

There's not much in it for a woman, biologically speaking, as women aren't made to scatter millions of eggs around in the hope that they will chance upon one fertile sperm.

@SwooningCamille

What is in it for the woman

  • Orgasms
  • Satisfaction
  • Enjoyment

But mainly - unencumbered by a big sweaty, untidy, lackadaisical male in her home.

She is free.

MintJulia · 10/12/2023 00:58

The other approach - which no one seems to mention - is when the woman chooses not to commit (marry).

Having watched several of my friends married to men who 'gave' their wives children, basically to shut them up, and then went back to single-style life, having acquired a free housekeeper, I chose not to marry.

Sure enough ex morphed after ds was born, despite us being together for years and him being outwardly a modern competent man. He became the nappy-avoiding, out with the boys cliché.

So ds and I left. Calmly, no fuss, no financial hassles. I just found a flat and walked away from his shitty behaviour. He couldn't stop me. I've always worked full time. Never relied on ex. Which means I have our child and a calm happy home with none of the hassles so many talk about on MN. I couldn't change his behaviour but I don't have to put up with laziness, selfishness, or moodiness.

I find it a much better arrangement.

FatFatMary · 10/12/2023 01:01

@MintJulia I might be the same, although it’s hard to say having been single so long. I’ve had my kids and I don’t really need that security from a man at this point

TempestTost · 10/12/2023 01:02

I think people in general mature a lot later than they used to.

Part of it is that especially for those who go to university, it extends the time before they are productive, by quite a bit in some cases.

But also, there is this weird thing where people now seem to think that people even in their mid to late 20s are too young to really be responsible and settle down. If you don't even start looking for serious relationship with commitment until you are 30 you may well be 40 by the time you meet someone and actually get to where you have kids. Which is really a risk for women if they want kids.

We also have this idea that we can't expect people in their late teens, early 20s, even mid 20s to be really responsible, because their brains aren't fully developed. But this ignores that a lot of brain development is pushed by experience. If you don't expect people to grow up they are often very slow to develop those capacities. If there is no social pressure to do so, a lot of people never grow up.

HeraSyndulla · 10/12/2023 01:06

Keilagh · 09/12/2023 18:36

Yeah I know what you mean.

I do agree though that most men are ambivalent to children and some do only have them to make their partner happy. Thought this was common knowledge.

I think there is some truth to this.

Diaria · 10/12/2023 01:06

To the women going on about why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free yadda yadda…

Firstly, sex is BIG these days, a lot of people - men and women - would want to ensure they are sexually compatible with a partner before marrying them.

Secondly, I think, if you are going to bring Christianity into it that the problem actually lies at the other end of marriage - divorce!!

Men don’t live under a rock, if they get divorced they know they will be financially fucked. So perhaps they hold on for someone they are very sure of or are reluctant to commit to marriage at all on this basis.

I know for me I will be encouraging my DS to pursue his own endeavours for as long as possible and that if and when he does marry I will be employing a solicitor to make sure he (and the family) are cast iron protected.

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/12/2023 01:07

MintJulia · 10/12/2023 00:58

The other approach - which no one seems to mention - is when the woman chooses not to commit (marry).

Having watched several of my friends married to men who 'gave' their wives children, basically to shut them up, and then went back to single-style life, having acquired a free housekeeper, I chose not to marry.

Sure enough ex morphed after ds was born, despite us being together for years and him being outwardly a modern competent man. He became the nappy-avoiding, out with the boys cliché.

So ds and I left. Calmly, no fuss, no financial hassles. I just found a flat and walked away from his shitty behaviour. He couldn't stop me. I've always worked full time. Never relied on ex. Which means I have our child and a calm happy home with none of the hassles so many talk about on MN. I couldn't change his behaviour but I don't have to put up with laziness, selfishness, or moodiness.

I find it a much better arrangement.

Edited

It's definitely a valid option.

I didn't have strong feelings about getting married or having children, it was my husband who felt far more strongly about both.

Diaria · 10/12/2023 01:09

TempestTost · 10/12/2023 01:02

I think people in general mature a lot later than they used to.

Part of it is that especially for those who go to university, it extends the time before they are productive, by quite a bit in some cases.

But also, there is this weird thing where people now seem to think that people even in their mid to late 20s are too young to really be responsible and settle down. If you don't even start looking for serious relationship with commitment until you are 30 you may well be 40 by the time you meet someone and actually get to where you have kids. Which is really a risk for women if they want kids.

We also have this idea that we can't expect people in their late teens, early 20s, even mid 20s to be really responsible, because their brains aren't fully developed. But this ignores that a lot of brain development is pushed by experience. If you don't expect people to grow up they are often very slow to develop those capacities. If there is no social pressure to do so, a lot of people never grow up.

As far as I can remember the female brain is mature at 18, male at about 23/24 as resources are diverted differently… I will go and fact check myself now incase I have impressed urban myth into my own grey matter…

theresnolimits · 10/12/2023 01:09

IME many of my age group who got married in their 20s, were divorced by their 40s. Both with and without children.

I think the trend towards not committing until your 30s is a good one if it means the relationship ‘sticks’.

It’s nonsense to say men don’t want children ~ they may not feel the biological clock, but all my sons’ friends definitely want a family. But they do want to be more financially secure , own their own home and have progressed in their jobs which does push it back.

MintJulia · 10/12/2023 01:11

Far too many women are determined to get married at any cost. Why? There is no need. Too many women allow themselves to become dependent on men and then find themselves stuck and unhappy.

It would be much better to recognise that 70% of men do not (and never will) make decent life partners, and avoid going there in the first place. Life with no husband is much better than life with a bad husband, for the children as well as the woman.

Codlingmoths · 10/12/2023 01:34

Wahtnow · 09/12/2023 18:28

My experience of watching my young adult sons and their relationships is that men fall more quickly and more heavily than women. They commit very quickly, that might not mean house and children, but they are committed to the relationship, often to the exclusion of all else, which is not a good thing IMO as their mother.

Friends who have slightly older sons are shopping for mother of the groom outfits by the time their sons are in their late 20s/early 30s so it's not something I'm seeing.

I think people, men and women,are less likely to get married/settle just because they're at an age society says they should, but I think they do for the right person.

What does this mean? I had boyfriends when young that ‘committed’ aka they wanted all my time. They never committed in terms of respecting my other commitments or my time or stepping in and actually getting some shit done when I was busy or being genuine support or organising a holiday or anything boring or useful, so I’d say they didn’t commit really.

HamBone · 10/12/2023 01:38

MintJulia · 10/12/2023 01:11

Far too many women are determined to get married at any cost. Why? There is no need. Too many women allow themselves to become dependent on men and then find themselves stuck and unhappy.

It would be much better to recognise that 70% of men do not (and never will) make decent life partners, and avoid going there in the first place. Life with no husband is much better than life with a bad husband, for the children as well as the woman.

@MintJulia I agree that a woman becoming financially dependent on a man and then becoming trapped in an unhappy relationship is inadvisable.

But I’m not sure how living with someone, working, and having a child with them is so different to being married to them, working, and having a child with them.

Yes, assets have to be divided up in a divorce, but surely a long term partner would still be on the child’s birth certificate and have the same parental rights as an ex-husband?

Unless you meant the comparative ease of moving out if property isn’t jointly owned?