Page 4 | To not understand this trend of men waiting until middle age to commit

Ageingisaprivilegedeniedtomany · 2023-12-09T18:23:34+00:00

I've seen on here a few times and irl that early 30s is apparently too young for men to settle down these days and most don't contemplate it until nearer 40? I just don't understand tbh, 30 is relatively young but they're not 21 year olds. I'm 32 and recently left a 29 year old who wouldn't commit. My Mum keeps telling me I need someone a lot older, but tbh I don't want anyone significantly older. Also hearing that most men are ambivalent about having children and do it to keep their partners happy. Just feel a bit fed up tbh. Obviously it's a massive generalisation but I just don't get it and hope it isn't entirely true

ActDottie · 09/12/2023 22:26

SarahDarah · 09/12/2023 22:16

Men are logical creatures and the answer is completely straightforward: why commit when women nowadays very foolishly give men everything without commitment??

Sex has been decoupled from babies and the commitment of marriage. On top of that, due to the collapse of moral values and decline in Christianity which was the religion that built Western traditional values, men in recent western societies are strongly ushered to live selfish, pleasure based lifestyles regardless of the consequences on others i.e. indulging in Pornography, casual sex outside marriage, and delaying adulting and responsibility as long as possible. It encourages men to shun sacrifice for the good of others but the willingness to sacrifice pleasure for authentic love is essential for a man to desire and to maintain a happy marriage and kids.

Women have only themselves to blame for letting men have their way like this. If women stopped having sex with men before marriage and made clear sex and other perks of a long term relationship will only happen afterwards, men will shape up dramatically quickly to meet the standards of women.

Wow… let’s blame women

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 09/12/2023 22:33

It's nothing to do with sex, and a great deal to do with the cost of living, I think.

SwooningCamille · 09/12/2023 22:34

To judge by the number of adults in MN land who still "live at home" with their parents, it seems entirely likely that they still consider themselves to be glorified teenagers aged 30.

This is one of many reasons why it isn't healthy to have adult chidlren living at home.

I also agree with the PP who said that if men are having a regular supply of sex, there's no particular reason for them to want to get married. And if men can have a regular supply of sex with endless willing women, there's even less reason.

Some of the problems have arisen as a result of women trying to treat sex in the same way that men have always done/wanted to do. Whereas men scattering their billions of sperm widely is a biological thing, and women shagging around is something they have been conditioned to think is a recreational activity. In fact, it's really only for the benefit of men.

Blessedbethefruitz · 09/12/2023 22:37

I actually don't know any men who want kids, apart from my little brother (30) who has been with his girlfriend longer than me and dp. But they're travelling the world still on work visas, both still young. Most of the men I know (now late 30s/early 40s) are hopelessly single and lacking confidence.

My dp was ambivalent but we had the conversation very early on, when he was late 30s and me late 20s. We have 2 kids now and he's an excellent dad and partner, fell head over heels with our first at birth, while it took me a little longer with the trauma!

We will get married eventually, but we're both practical people re savings and paying off the mortgage, and I'm the higher earner, so it's not the biggest issue in financial terms for me and the kids. Getting married would change nothing for us except inheritance tax I think.

Original poster

Ageingisaprivilegedeniedtomany · 09/12/2023 22:42

It's depressing sometimes being a woman in your 30s :/ I feel like men have all the power

OP posts:

PyongyangKipperbang · 09/12/2023 22:45

Mrsttcno1 · 09/12/2023 20:12

I think if you’re already thinking about huge commitments before you’re even actually with this person then it’s likely you’re going to give off those vibes from day 1 which could well push him the other way. To put myself in his position, if I was single again now and dating someone new who was immediately bringing up marriage and kids I would see that as a red flag, massive rush and my friends would be first in to say thats love bombing etc! I think it is a difficult one because I do think it’s normal & sensible to spend a couple of years with someone before you start thinking marriage and babies because you need to really know the person inside and out, but there is always the risk that you could do that and then they change their mind. I think you need to really know someone before you can be ready to “commit”, which does take time and can’t be rushed x

I strongly disagree.

I think that a conversation on the first date along the lines of "OK so what do we both want out of dating?" is a good thing. If he says "Just looking for a bit of fun" and she says "I am looking for a LTR, kids etc" then they can have a nice evening go their seperate ways and no hard feelings. I know of more than a few who went on a few dates, wanted different things and ended up as really good friends.

Saying what you are in it for saves wasting everyones time! And I would think that these days its far more acceptable to have these convos early, what with OLD etc, than it was back in the "old days". I am 50 and when I was dating (although it wasnt called that then!) it was pretty much assumed that if you were "going out" with someone then you were exclusive from the second date onward and the end goal was marriage and kids. I am GenX, we were the switch over generation that got the stick that was shitty at both ends! None of the benefits of modern dating and none of the guarantees of "traditional" going out.

fyn · 09/12/2023 22:52

All of my friends that are married or engaged (we are 29/30) are in relationships with men late 30s. My friends in relationships with men their age have been for ages with no engagements, some for 10+ years.

The men I’d dated before DH definitely were nowhere near ready to have children, DH thought he was too young at 35 when I got pregnant with DC1.

SouthLondonMum22 · 09/12/2023 22:54

SwooningCamille · 09/12/2023 22:34

To judge by the number of adults in MN land who still "live at home" with their parents, it seems entirely likely that they still consider themselves to be glorified teenagers aged 30.

This is one of many reasons why it isn't healthy to have adult chidlren living at home.

I also agree with the PP who said that if men are having a regular supply of sex, there's no particular reason for them to want to get married. And if men can have a regular supply of sex with endless willing women, there's even less reason.

Some of the problems have arisen as a result of women trying to treat sex in the same way that men have always done/wanted to do. Whereas men scattering their billions of sperm widely is a biological thing, and women shagging around is something they have been conditioned to think is a recreational activity. In fact, it's really only for the benefit of men.

Why is it only beneficial for men between two consenting adults?

That implies that only men enjoy sex, specifically casual sex which is simply untrue. I had plenty of enjoyable casual sex before I met DH.

Shallana · 09/12/2023 22:55

I don't think it's that men are committing later so much as that the men who are ready to commit in their 30's are already taken. I'm 32 and married, as are the majority of our friends, we've all been in relationships since our early twenties.

It could also be that they are not afraid of committing to the right person, but you're not that person.

SwooningCamille · 09/12/2023 22:55

Ageingisaprivilegedeniedtomany · 09/12/2023 22:42

It's depressing sometimes being a woman in your 30s :/ I feel like men have all the power

They do have a lot of the power, and women have handed a significant amount of it to them by treating sex as if it's no more than a handshake.

If they made men work a bit harder, men would have less power. As it is, any man knows he can go to a club and find some willing vag. He's not likely to want to marry its owner afterwards.

SarahDarah · 09/12/2023 22:56

SouthLondonMum22 · 09/12/2023 22:21

That’s right, blame women for the behaviour of some men.

Maybe those men would change their behaviour if society actually held them accountable for their actions.

Show quote history

@SouthLondonMum22 but who precisely are you referring to when you say "society"?? Society is us people, not some nebulous organisation.

Women are the ones who suffer the most from this male behaviour and we already have the agency and power to stop men taking advantage of us in this particular way, so why wouldnt we? We're not helpless little beings who have to wait for "society" to fix things for us. We have the power and need to take back this power from men.

Women can choose to put their heads in the sand and deny it all they want but it's only to their detriment and men will continue taking advantage.

I have some family from a cultural background where men can't get away with what they get away with in many Western countries. Men commit since sex is closely linked with commitment I.e. marriage and kids. They are generally better husbands and fathers; they actively want marriage and they have a real sense of responsibility and pride in sacrificing for their wife and family since it's the social norm. Because women are the ones who set out what they want and don't just give men whatever they want with no consequences.

PyongyangKipperbang · 09/12/2023 22:57

I am by no means a Trad Wife.

But I do think that the current social trend of women giving over their fertile years to a man who will be ready "next year" and then getting dumped for the younger woman that he marries and procreates with almost immediately, is maybe a consequence of the "Sexual Revolution".

My Grandmother (would be 103 if she was still alive) used to say "Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free" and there is something in that.

Why would a man commit to marriage and kids if he has the perfect life set up just as he wants it? He gets a nice DINKY lifestyle, travel, nice home, shared bills, can work on his career with no aggro as his OH is working on hers, great sex life.....all good. And then she gets pissed off at being strung along, so the rows start and he leaves because X who is 10/15/20 years younger is giving him the eye. Except that he realises early that unless he marries and gives her babies, she will be off as she had more options than he does.....so he signs on the dotted line. And his ex is left single, childless and 40. We have all seen it.

I am all for having the sex life you want, but lets not pretend that men will not use that to their advantage, havent they always taken us and used for what they want if they can get it?

Its not blaming women for what they do, its saying that we changed the game and they found a way to exploit that, so now we need to change the game again. And sometimes that means taking a step back in time....

SwooningCamille · 09/12/2023 22:58

@SouthLondonMum22 See ... I'm on the fence about whether women actually enjoy casual sex, or if they are now just conditioned to think they should.

There's not much in it for a woman, biologically speaking, as women aren't made to scatter millions of eggs around in the hope that they will chance upon one fertile sperm.

Chanhedforthis · 09/12/2023 22:59

I think it's because they can. They don't seem to have the fertility issues that women can encounter in their late 30s/early 40s.

They also seem to mature a lot later than women.

I love DH but i prefer him now to when he was in his late 20s/early 30s!

SwooningCamille · 09/12/2023 23:00

Its not blaming women for what they do, its saying that we changed the game and they found a way to exploit that, so now we need to change the game again. And sometimes that means taking a step back in time...

I agree with this @PyongyangKipperbang

Bloodyel · 09/12/2023 23:08

SwooningCamille · 09/12/2023 22:58

@SouthLondonMum22 See ... I'm on the fence about whether women actually enjoy casual sex, or if they are now just conditioned to think they should.

There's not much in it for a woman, biologically speaking, as women aren't made to scatter millions of eggs around in the hope that they will chance upon one fertile sperm.

Your understanding of the sexes is half baked, both males and females have a biological drive to reproduce. Males are made to reproduce as much ad they can, true, but they are also made to die. The whole point in being male, in evolutionary terms, is to prove you're good enough to get to reproductive age and not be killed, which most of them aren't without modern society to keep them alive. Only very very very (very very) few males would naturally be able to reproduce at all. That's the point, the rubbish ones don't get to (it's also why they have more risk taking behaviour as it's essentially their genes rolling the dice and seeing if they're goof enough to survive their stupid risks). Females on the other hand, are made to survive, for reasons too obvious to explain. But we ignore all this because we are civilised. So next time you spout about men 'scattering' their seeds, like life should be as easy as some sort of dandelion, don't forget to include all of the above as well.

Keilagh · 09/12/2023 23:09

SarahDarah · 09/12/2023 22:56

@SouthLondonMum22 but who precisely are you referring to when you say "society"?? Society is us people, not some nebulous organisation.

Women are the ones who suffer the most from this male behaviour and we already have the agency and power to stop men taking advantage of us in this particular way, so why wouldnt we? We're not helpless little beings who have to wait for "society" to fix things for us. We have the power and need to take back this power from men.

Women can choose to put their heads in the sand and deny it all they want but it's only to their detriment and men will continue taking advantage.

I have some family from a cultural background where men can't get away with what they get away with in many Western countries. Men commit since sex is closely linked with commitment I.e. marriage and kids. They are generally better husbands and fathers; they actively want marriage and they have a real sense of responsibility and pride in sacrificing for their wife and family since it's the social norm. Because women are the ones who set out what they want and don't just give men whatever they want with no consequences.

Show quote history

I disagree wholeheartedly. And keeping this ‘cultural background’ ambiguous doesn’t really add anything to your point. What culture/country are you talking about exactly?

SemperIdem · 09/12/2023 23:09

PyongyangKipperbang · 09/12/2023 22:57

I am by no means a Trad Wife.

But I do think that the current social trend of women giving over their fertile years to a man who will be ready "next year" and then getting dumped for the younger woman that he marries and procreates with almost immediately, is maybe a consequence of the "Sexual Revolution".

My Grandmother (would be 103 if she was still alive) used to say "Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free" and there is something in that.

Why would a man commit to marriage and kids if he has the perfect life set up just as he wants it? He gets a nice DINKY lifestyle, travel, nice home, shared bills, can work on his career with no aggro as his OH is working on hers, great sex life.....all good. And then she gets pissed off at being strung along, so the rows start and he leaves because X who is 10/15/20 years younger is giving him the eye. Except that he realises early that unless he marries and gives her babies, she will be off as she had more options than he does.....so he signs on the dotted line. And his ex is left single, childless and 40. We have all seen it.

I am all for having the sex life you want, but lets not pretend that men will not use that to their advantage, havent they always taken us and used for what they want if they can get it?

Its not blaming women for what they do, its saying that we changed the game and they found a way to exploit that, so now we need to change the game again. And sometimes that means taking a step back in time....

In your analogy, I am probably the significantly younger X person for whom the dotted line was signed, because I had more options if he didn’t.

That’s food for thought.

All years ago now, we amicably co-parent.

FatFatMary · 09/12/2023 23:10

I think I might like to be a Trad Wife

Aydahayda · 09/12/2023 23:15

SarahDarah · 09/12/2023 22:16

Men are logical creatures and the answer is completely straightforward: why commit when women nowadays very foolishly give men everything without commitment??

Sex has been decoupled from babies and the commitment of marriage. On top of that, due to the collapse of moral values and decline in Christianity which was the religion that built Western traditional values, men in recent western societies are strongly ushered to live selfish, pleasure based lifestyles regardless of the consequences on others i.e. indulging in Pornography, casual sex outside marriage, and delaying adulting and responsibility as long as possible. It encourages men to shun sacrifice for the good of others but the willingness to sacrifice pleasure for authentic love is essential for a man to desire and to maintain a happy marriage and kids.

Women have only themselves to blame for letting men have their way like this. If women stopped having sex with men before marriage and made clear sex and other perks of a long term relationship will only happen afterwards, men will shape up dramatically quickly to meet the standards of women.

You lost me at “decline in christianity”

actually, no - you lost me at “men are logical creatures”

Aydahayda · 09/12/2023 23:17

SemperIdem · 09/12/2023 22:24

Gosh, who invited the Trad Wife?

🤣🤣👍🏻

Tukmgru · 09/12/2023 23:19

SarahDarah · 09/12/2023 22:16

Men are logical creatures and the answer is completely straightforward: why commit when women nowadays very foolishly give men everything without commitment??

Sex has been decoupled from babies and the commitment of marriage. On top of that, due to the collapse of moral values and decline in Christianity which was the religion that built Western traditional values, men in recent western societies are strongly ushered to live selfish, pleasure based lifestyles regardless of the consequences on others i.e. indulging in Pornography, casual sex outside marriage, and delaying adulting and responsibility as long as possible. It encourages men to shun sacrifice for the good of others but the willingness to sacrifice pleasure for authentic love is essential for a man to desire and to maintain a happy marriage and kids.

Women have only themselves to blame for letting men have their way like this. If women stopped having sex with men before marriage and made clear sex and other perks of a long term relationship will only happen afterwards, men will shape up dramatically quickly to meet the standards of women.

@SarahDarah I can guarantee, without a shadow of a doubt, that your Traditional Values Christian Husband is cheating on you. Likely with a man currently, and previously with a stripper or two.

Aydahayda · 09/12/2023 23:20

Omg we’re now on “why buy the cow if you get the milk for free“
….. what’s going on today on MN?

maudeskarenina · 09/12/2023 23:21

I kind of see this trend a bit, a good friend of mine only asked his long girlfriend to marry him aged 30 when she dumped him. He was actually ok with it all once they were engaged but he had cold feet. He told me he didn't want to split with her but he just didn't want things to change.

What I do notice is that at that age the guy will often fairly quickly marry the next girlfriend he has. My theory is not that the guy loves her more or that she is better wife material but that she strikes while the iron is hot, she gets him to commit and marry her when he is in the infatuation, loved up phase before reality has a chance to bite. This is what my SIL did with DH's brother, met and married him within the year.

The issue might be that people meet their first long term boyfriend at 19, date for 6 -10 years, the woman then pushes for marriage as the next step but the relationship is now settled, and lacks the energy the first flush of romance and sex that men seem to need to commit. People just don't often get married at 21 anymore so its inevitable that lots of women will find their boyfriends unwilling to commit or change 8 or 10 years down the line. If the had wanted to marry that first long term boyfriend at that age and it was still normal to marry at a young age they would probably have married them.

Sometimes ultimatums work but in your late 20's early 30's as a man it probably feels like you still have a lot of options and so it is tempting to leave and play the field for a bit. especially if the alternative is responsibility, children and domestic chores.

LorlieS · 09/12/2023 23:25

I married my now ex-husband at 24 and had two kids by 29. Massively regret not living life first!
Met my second husband at 36 - he was 41. He had always wanted children but sadly it had never happened for him. He was pleased that I had two kids of my own which he is now an incredible stepdad to. He was fine with the fact I didn't want any more.

Then I turned 39 and changed my mind - we now have a gorgeous 3 yo daughter together. I find motherhood far more tiring but then again I'm working ft and obviously older!

Well now my boys are heading towards adulthood it won't be long before hubby and I can do our own thing, right? Hubby is nearing 50 so... hang on... the toddler! The toddler!!! Scrap that - zero time for just "myself" again!!!

Hubby doesn't know any different than kods in later life but he's grateful he had all of those childfree years to go travelling and be "him" if that makes sense? I'm jealous of him for having had that! I never lived my own life really before bringing children into the world and as much as I of course I adore my now teenage sons I wish I'd have waited.