To not understand this trend of men waiting until middle age to commit

[Ageingisaprivilegedeniedtomany]

I've seen on here a few times and irl that early 30s is apparently too young for men to settle down these days and most don't contemplate it until nearer 40?
I just don't understand tbh, 30 is relatively young but they're not 21 year olds.
I'm 32 and recently left a 29 year old who wouldn't commit. My Mum keeps telling me I need someone a lot older, but tbh I don't want anyone significantly older.
Also hearing that most men are ambivalent about having children and do it to keep their partners happy.
Just feel a bit fed up tbh. Obviously it's a massive generalisation but I just don't get it and hope it isn't entirely true

Exactly. Well said.

What are you on about? I’m not childfree I’ve got 3 kids.

And the age of people having kids has nothing to do with it. The men I’m talking about don’t want them ever. All my friends are late twenties/early 30s, not 15.

I don’t think it’s that odd an assumption: just look at how many shit fathers there are who show little to no interest in their children and do little to no parenting when they live in the family unit, and then fuck off to be barely heard from again once the relationship with their children’s mother ends. I think it’s a completely accurate assumption, to say that the number of men who actively really want children AND, after they’ve arrived, play an equal parenting role in those children’s lives, even if they later separate from their mother, is relatively tiny.

I don’t know how accurate this is because it’s based on reading fiction but in some cultures young women marry older men because that’s when they’re financially stable

Yeah I would say I know more men ambivalent to children rather than knowingly wanting them. They are also ignorant to fertility and I think just assume children will happen if/when they decide to procreate 😂

Some of us manage to still do well in our careers AND be present in the chaos. The entire reason I have the flexibility in my job now is that I worked hard and focused on it for a long time. The flexibility I have means I can be there for my DC. Same for my DH.

@ComtesseDeSpair may I suggest your life experience may be very different to mine.

Countries where it has become more accepted to not have children show women increasingly choose not to have children. Once societal pressure is removed, women are more and more making the choice that parenthood is not for them

I call it Peter Pan Syndrome and it drives me nuts. So many friends have been in relationships in their late 30s where their partners still say things like, I'd love kids, ONE DAY. And the thing that makes me furious is that they don't seem to realise what this means for their partner, whose fertility clock is ticking. They just haven't engaged the ol' brain about it! Several women I know have had to issue ultimatums.

@Keilagh Why are you being so snappy with ppl? You’ve been snappy to me and to @kaboomy.

Why aren’t you being nice to other posters?

My point was in relation to the assertion that it’s an odd assumption that most men are ambivalent about children. All the evidence suggests otherwise. Even a significant proportion of men who do have children, aren’t particularly interested in caring for or supporting them - and especially not once their relationship with the children’s mother ends. The statistics on unequal domestic load and absent fathers bear that out.

@ComtesseDeSpair But then why on earth do they have children nowadays when it’s completely optional?

Are these men who don’t want to have children and be involved parents (but do it anyway) completely daft or stupid? Why don’t they use always contraception or have a vasectomy….before anyone says they’re hard to get, if a man really don’t want to be a father, they can get one done privately.

Cos the posters I responded to weren’t nice to me? One put a sarcastic eye roll emoji and you called my opinion ‘odd’ in a separate post. I wasn’t any ruder than you or the other poster.

Anyway this thread isn’t about me so move on.

Exactly.

The reason why DH and I can be so flexible now is because we focused on our careers during our 20's so we could work long hours and progress as much as possible. This meant that when we had DS at 35, we were both in senior roles and can be much more flexible such as WFH and having a huge amount of control over our diaries which means we can often pick up DS early from nursery.

Because they don't get stuck with the drudgery and limitations to their lives the way women do. And because a lot of these men are thick as tree stumps, totally feckless and/or simply do not care about the impact they have on others' lives.

And because there is always a woman who will sleep with them, no matter how low down and gross they are.

You do come across as grumpy, @Keilagh!

Your experiences genuinely do seem odd/unusual to me, because they’re so different to my own. I know several men who are firmly childfree, but a larger number of enthusiastic, involved Dads.

It’s probably a case of birds of a feather, tbh. DH and I are always ferrying our kids, cheering on the sidelines at matches, etc., so we tend to interact with similar people. 🤷

Haha I didn’t realise having my first baby at 30 was losing my youth!!

Didn’t ask.

The thing with marrying is what if you have more than him, be it inheritance or a home already and he doesn’t. This makes a difference to the decision.

Also, according to incels, women are not throwing themselves at them.

On dating sites, I hear it is the top percentile men that get any dates anyway or repeat interest Unsure if this is a myth.

Are you focusing your search amongst men who work in certain industries or have a certain salary?
I have seen a very strong trend amongst my friendship group of men working well paid jobs in banking/finance/business in the city absolutely horrified at the idea of settling down under the age 35+.
Despite probably being expected to find a husband like that I met a man from a much more working class background in my early twenties and we decided to have our first baby at 28 and 29. I am so grateful I met someone who I knew was very family oriented, really wanted kids and was enthusiastic about all the work required to keep them alive. I really think the culture of certain industries (high disposable income, drugs, boozy work events and general hedonism) is corrupting some young men and making family life unappealing.

Oh FFS.

Most well-educated, highly achieving city workers aren't into drugs and debauchery, nor are working-class men paragons of family life.

@Pelham678 The demographic you are talking about is very high achieving men

I disagree with that. It wouldn’t be considered ‘very high achieving’. It would be considered ‘adequately achieving’ as opposed to ‘not achieving’. The men I refer to in this demographic are in the main surgeons, specialists/consultants, general mid-level finance, lawyers who want to make Partner sooner rather than in old age etc. None of this is ‘very high achieving’.

I do know men who are ‘very high achieving’, and these are the ones who retire mid 40’s with an absolute bucketload - all in high finance. Yes, they then get a woman mid-20’s, get married, have kids and all live their best lives in style, but I was NOT referring to them previously as they are a rarity, outliers if you like. I was referring to the bulk of the bell curve of people I know and know of (per above) who would be ‘adequately achieving’.

@Ageingisaprivilegedeniedtomany OP after some 270 replies, what are your thoughts about your initial question? (Please don’t tell me you now think it’s that women should save themselves for marriage)

Honestly Ive watched this over the last decade among friends. The blokes who refused to commit for years are ending up childless, didn't care initially and are now desperate and gutted in their mid 40s.