To think my grandparents are tossers

[Pbjammy]

Just trying to get my head around this. My remaining nan and grandad are in their mid 80s, live comfortably, generally in good health. They retired 2 hours away when I was 7 (I'm now mid 30s). Their contact with me and my sister since then has been sending birthday/Christmas cards each year with 'Happy Birthday/Christmas, love N&G.' They've never called, messaged or visited us once (they're very capable and tech savvy). They know absolutely nothing about us, other than what our jobs are and where we live. They genuinely never ask anything about our lives.

Yet they've always been volunteering with kids and young people in their local community. We just went to visit them for the first time in a year or so. They seem to know all the ins and outs of the lives of various young people's lives - they're hosting a Christmas lunch for the Scout group they used to run this weekend. My grandad was telling me all about an ex-Scout who is now at Oxford uni and how proud they are of him, as if they are part of the reason he's there?! Nan is also furiously knitting jumpers and socks for the new baby of their neighbour's kid, who they've known since he was born. Aibu to be angry about why did they/do they want nothing to do with their own grandkids? It's baffling. For context, my dad is their only child and they treated him poorly growing up.

People are being harsh. They moved when the OP was 7, therefore it was their job and OP dad's job to form the relationship to see their grandchildren. It's very difficult to move past childhood feelings.

I would ask them OP. Honestly, I would simply ask why you didn't see them more as a child and see what their response was.

If you don't want to do that then I would just let it go. They have filled their lives up where they are. 2hours for some people is like being the other side of the world. It doesn't sound like they have space for you and it sounds like you are too hurt to make the first move. I don't blame you at all for feeling like that but I would either let it completely go or have a chat with them.

In about 20 years time my Dns could say this about their GM (my mother) because they don't have a close relationship but she does with her other grandchildren.
The fact is, their mother doesn't like letting them out of her sight and my DB never brings them to visit (and DM wouldn't be welcome in the kid's house, which is a different address to DBs). So could your DF have had anything to do with it maybe?

It's sad, really. You say that they treated your dad badly, their only child. Sounds like they don't know how to do family. They may well have grown up in disfunctional or abusive homes themselves.

Be glad that you have broken the cycle and can build living families who enjoy being together.

And pity them. They clearly like the idea of young people, of helping out at scouts and boasting about how close they are to you. But scouts or volunteering with young people isn't like real family, with all it's give and take, and messy reality. They will never know that sort of real relationship.

My grandparents were the same. Well grandfather really, my Nan acted like she had no agency whatsoever & whatever he said they did.
Everything on their terms.
I never visited them before or after their 'big' move because I simply hadn't had the 'royal invitation '
I dropped the rope several years before they died (almost 20 years ago) and have only just been told what they died of.
Families are strange sometimes, you don't have to play along.

With people like this its hard to know what's going on it sounds complicated.

Taking it at face value I think here's an element of

• Caring a lot what strangers think/wanting to be seen as "nice people"
• It's another way to message to their son and you that you are at fault and justify their shitty behaviour of your dad. "see you AREN'T loveable. I can be nice and kind and thoughtful to a total stranger but not you..."

You're right op they do sound like absolute tossers.

And how do you know it was THEM who created that distance and not your Dad?

You seem happy to place all the blame on them and expect them to do all the running around.

If your Dad's relationship with them was poor that doesn't stop you from making the effort to try and reconnect. You don't want to. So why should they make an effort either?

One way traffic.

This really OP. If they don't have a great relationship with their child why would they have a close relationship with his kids. Knowing they aren't close to your dad your expectations of them are a bit unreasonable.

I wonder if there were issues between them and your dad, it is very common these days to just ‘blame the parents/ older generation’ however if there had been issues between them and your dad then this is very likely to cause of their lack of relationship with you. If they didn’t get on great with him or the relationship was on/off with the your dad they might not of felt very invested with their grandchildren. I suppose it’s safer in a way to keep emotionally distances when you have a volatile family member. If you live some distance away that can cause issues too. I think people’s expectations of grandparents are also a lot higher these days so a lot of it is probably a cultural clash too. I know when I was growing up in the 1980s some grandparents were very involved because they wanted to be and some weren’t, it wasn’t really a big thing either way whereas now I’ve noticed the younger generation seems to expect a lot of involvement

A couple in their mid eighties is from a different world socially. There are two sides to every story, usually.

You're not being unreasonable to question this but definitely sounds like there's more to this story. Have you actually spoken to your grandparents about it? You are an adult now, after all

Yeah I'm going to call tossers too - they sound awful. Sorry OP.

Is it because you are your dad's children and they have no relationship with him?

Why is that?

Absolutely. I'd love to hear the grandparents' side of the story.

I would hope they do!

Not everyone is a doting parent/ grandparent/ child/grandchild. If you don’t expect anything from them then you’ll never be disappointed. If they’ve always been like this why are you now calling them tossers?

I do think there might be more drip feeding about Dad’s relationship with them though.

Absolutely agree with this. My dad was the same- moved away from me, showed zero interest in my children (his only grandchildren) despite me visiting him and taking them regularly and making a huge effort to foster a relationship, inviting him over (he rarely accepted) etc. Yet, he made a huge fuss about his girlfriend's GC going on and on about how wonderful they were. It was incredibly hurtful and as a result, my kids had no relationship with him. He's dead now and I'm at peace with it- it was his choice and when he and his GF split up he ended up frail and lonely and sadly, he only had himself to blame.

https://medium.com/@katiabeeden/how-to-spot-a-communal-narcissist-45fec3e9cf75 have a google of the term communal narcissist “”The communal narcissist is your classic virtue signaler. They get narcissistic supply by being seen as the most charitable, most helpful person in the world. They project the illusion that they are the most trustworthy person you will ever meet and only have your best interests at heart.

Communal narcissism is a term coined by Jochen E. Gebauer, a German researcher. He wanted to distinguish between agentic narcissism and what he coined as ‘communal narcissism.’ Agentic narcissists base their high self-importance, entitlement, and social power on unduly inflated views of their own agency (e.g., intelligence, creativity, and scholastic aptitude) (Grijalva & Zhang, 2016; Wallace, 2011). Communal narcissists on the other hand act humble and self-sacrificing. They portray themselves as saints who are on a mission to change the world for the better.
Of course, there is nothing wrong with doing good deeds but a communal narcissist is doing it purely for validation. They make sure that their efforts are photographed, videoed, posted and written about. And they always manage to look good on camera! “”

So they weren't interested when you were a child
Largely ignored when you visited
Had to be on best behaviour

Maybe I'm projecting, but they sound like it's all for appearances. They like to be seen to be helpful to people who will express gratitude to those who matter to them. You and your DCs would not fall into that category, and are not 'worth' the effort. Could that be it? Virtue signalling while own family are discarded?

It's a hard place to be for you.

To them there are no prizes for being a good grandparent - they obviously just want the public accolades their "do-gooding" gives them.

YANBU, they sound dreadful and full of themselves.

Is it possible that they for some reason really did not like your mother or your mother did not like them?

I have seen this before in a few situations where the grandparents think the person that their child is going to marry is completely wrong for them or dislike them for some reason. Unless the child is a skilled diplomat and can socially ease the relationship, over time both ways the relationship with the spouse/inlaws deteriorates and hatred both ways intensifies.

The parents go from really not liking the spouse and worrying about their childs happiness to actively hating the spouse and the feeling then becomes mutual.

When children are born to the couple, the grandparents animosity towards the spouse affects the relationship with their children - partly because they don't want to associate with someone who hates them too and partly because however much they love their child, they now can't get past the fact the grandchildren are 'half' of the detest spouse.

The really tragic thing about this type of situation is that usually the grandparents/parents of the child start off just worried about their child and their future happiness and are not bad people - its just a situation where relationships downward spiral as each side pushes each other away more.

One of the children in this situation that I know of didn't find out til after the last of the grandparents had died and they were very old. An elderly aunt almost on her death bed told her that her mother had hated her inlaws/ grandparents so that's why they never saw them.

Its so so sad because if she'd known earlier then she could have tried to build a relationship as a young adult.

Totally, when I think of my grandparents back in the 1980s, the expectations between the generations was a lot more balanced. People had more respect for their elders generally and young people would be expected to make as much effort/contribution/consideration to the family as their parents/grandparents. I would say there wasn’t really an expectation of grandparents as such, they were there for advice, to indulge if they fancied, for all the fun stuff really but above all they were seen as vulnerable and in need of support themselves. I think it’s lovely that things are more child centred now but that certainly wasn’t the case back then so if your expectations are of how people relate to children today then you’re being totally unrealistic. The expectations of children’s behaviour was totally different too. It’s unhelpful for you to judge people who spent most of their lives in what was a totally different world.

If the OP’s grandparents didn’t bother when she was a kid why would she bother now she’s an adult? I can’t think of a single family member that I see/speak to regularly now that wasn’t a regular part of my childhood, that’s generally how it works.

OP YANBU, sounds like they enjoy ‘playing the part’ but not putting the actual dog work in. Leave them to it x

I’m sorry but 😂💰

Sounds really frustrating for you. If you are in desperate need of answers, I’d ask them why there wasn’t more communication when you were younger because it doesn’t sound as though there can be more push back when they already don’t see you.