The existence of Father Christmas is a lie that children shouldn’t be told

[maybein2022]

I’ve noticed on social media recently that a LOT of people are posting about not allowing their children to believe in Father Christmas. The rationale being they don’t lie to their children about other things, and it doesn’t sit comfortably with them to create this big ‘lie’. Some talk about how St Nicholas was a real person, some talk about how other children believe in the magic so they shouldn’t spoil it for them etc.

My eldest two are way past believing but it never occurred to me that it was anything more than a harmless story/magic that they would grow out of believing. But I now have a baby/toddler too (too young to understand this year) and wondering if we do the whole thing again.

We’ve always done stockings from FC as small, inexpensive gifts, and always done bigger under the tree gifts from us. A lot of the issue comes with of course not all children will get any gifts at all, and therefore it’s awful if they believe in FC and are disappointed or think they’ve been ‘bad’ (kids living in poverty with no parental money to buy anything, kids living with domestic violence etc). Also the idea that FC brings some kids big gifts and some just small.

So: (I am still on the fence anyway about it all)

YANBU: It’s fine, FC is a magical thing that it’s fine for kids to believe in.
YABU: A lie is a lie, kids shouldn’t believe in FC.

I'm starting to loathe the phrase "the magic of Christmas".

I was never upset to find out Santa wasn’t real as a child and kind of naturally grew out of believing quite young, I assumed my kids would be the same and I’ve always been quite light hearted about the existence of Santa. However my eldest dd is mildly autistic and is quite obsessed with Christmas, as she got older i was never really sure if she believed in Santa or was just playing along, but when she was as 11 she asked me outright because some other children told her he wasn’t real and I told her the truth as gently as I could but she was devastated. To make matter worse her dad(my ex) told her I was lying and Santa is definitely real so now she is 13 and still believes in Santa.

I have been much less keen to continue the story with my younger children seeing how much it’s upset DD1 but they all still believe in Santa. However I now feel really uncomfortable saying anything that directly implies he is real so am just skirting around the issue just now and being very vague, wish we’d been clearer that he wasn’t real from the start!

My two have openly stopped believing now after years of playing along, but they still like tracking on Norad, leaving out the carrot, mince pie and drink and finding ashy footprints on the hearth on Christmas morning.

They're both pretty analytical types and less is more with them. We have gone to grottoes and winter wonderland type events, but don't bang on about it for the entirity of December or even before.

I've recently had bother because my 10yo was in a conversation with an 8 & 9yo and the 9yo felt "bullied" by an 8 & 10yo saying that they didn't believe. If they've lasted until 9, before having their belief challenged, they've lasted better than me; at 7, I was shocked by a 5yo telling me outright that he didn't believe and that was the start of Doubt. Over a few years the strength of belief slipped, but I enjoyed playing along, just as it's enjoyable to occasionally feel for the back of a wardrobe just-in-case...

Some fantasy is healthy. When mine have had questions, I've gone for the "what do you think" approach. With religion, I've gone for the "some people believe, I think that, what do you think?" type approach. The problems come when adults are too abolute one way or the other and push their own agenda.

The world is shades of grey. It's not split evenly between absolute truth and lies. Sometimes we need escapism and fantasy. Sometimes truth needs editing to a managable, appropriate level.

I had relatives who who weren't allowed to celebrate Christmas or birthdays and were isolated in other ways like being pulled out of assembly. They found being excluded from the mainstream without adequate alternatives very difficult and they have all made very different choices for their own children.

*You do realise that the idea of Father Christmas as we know him has only been around since the 1840s.

So quite a new concept really*

Who is looking to the early 1800s for their inspiration?!

I believed in father Christmas and I remember the excitement leading up to Christmas, being taken to see him. The threat of being good was never used on us, the same as I never used that threat on my children. I relived my excitement through them. I never hated my parents for 'lying' and neither have my own boys hated us either.
It's a beautiful part of childhood and I really miss not having little ones around now, for me Christmas is rather flat without Santa.

Growing up FC was more of a delivery man than anything else, delivering gifts magically overnight from family further away and bringing us a small gift himself (we didn't do stockings.)

Santa is really the Amazon Delivery driver ...

...I think I will stick to the fantasy / lie / imaginative play thanks.

Oh god, not this again.

I don't see it as a lie. It's a story about bigger truths around kindness, love and generosity in the world. It's a beautiful thing to me. I love that my parents fostered it for us. I am loving doing the same for my children.

Everyone else can whatever the hell they want. 🤷‍♀️

Elf on the Shelf is an extra level of awfulness that I really don’t know why any parents have bought into, frankly

It's a soft toy you move around the house. The vitriol about it on here is a bit weird.

Fantasy, stories, myths, make believe, is encouraged in our house. However, DS does not think Father Christmas is any more real than the Gruffalo.

I'd never heard of 'elf on the shelf' or Christmas Eve boxes before joining Mumsnet and honestly do not know anyone who 'does' either.

Father Christmas is OK as long as children are not told he is real. It's a charming story, loosely based on St Nicholas, but there is no man with a beard who travels by reindeer-drawn sleigh to deliver gifts to children all over the world. It is just a story and, from what I have gleaned over the years, is far more important to parents than children. Enter into the fun but don't lie.

Life is pretty shit, imagine not being allowed to believe in Father Christmas.

It is just a story and, from what I have gleaned over the years, is far more important to parents than children. Enter into the fun but don't lie.

Not accurate in my case. It was massively important to me as a child.

We do one present off santa because I do want them to have that element of magic but we are honest and say rest of presents come from mummy and daddy working hard.

I think this is one of the big issues and problems. Santa bringing ALL the presents. Santa brings a stocking with little items - that generally aren't too commercial and like the entire Argos catalogue.

Mines pretty good and I hope my children’s will be too.

We will do Santa (DS has just turned 1 so is too young right now) but I do agree with this too.

Some parents do go OTT with Santa and outright panic if another child says Santa isn't real. It shouldn't be a shock to children that not everyone believes in the same things they do or even celebrates Christmas at all.

I loved it SO much as a child. My favourite thing was leaving mince pies for Santa and carrots for the reindeer and coming down on Christmas Day to a handwritten thank you note from Santa. I don’t remember having a lightbulb moment either where I felt betrayed and lied to - I just remember gradually growing out of it.

Has anyone ever read ‘the Father Christmas letters’? It’s a collection of handwritten, beautifully hand-illustrated letters from Santa written by J. R. Tolkien to his children between about 1922 and 1939. They are lovely and what struck me reading them as an adult and a mum is that they’re just pure parental love.

Awh, the Argos catalogue. Such a jolt from the past. I used to love watching my two create a Christmas wish list from the Argos catalogue with scissors and glue.

Some parents do go OTT with Santa and outright panic if another child says Santa isn't real. It shouldn't be a shock to children that not everyone believes in the same things they do or even celebrates Christmas at all.
Agree with you. It should be a bit of fun that the children naturally come to question and then it either becomes a family tradition to pretend or another tradition is born.

For all the sensible normal parents who have a bit of fun, there's some who start threads in December in a panic.
Eg When their 5 year old realises all their friends' Santa stories don't add up they're on MN asking if it's ok to tell them that Santa is a real person who has a magic time travelling device and a sleigh from the future that works at warp speed to get to all the houses, except the houses he doesn't go to because it's not that all those children are naughty, but some of them are. Santa has a special mince pie stomach which is why he can eat millions of mince pies in one night. Rudolph too, special carrot stomachs. Some children get more presents than others because their parents send more presents to Santa earlier in the year. Why do some parents not send any presents? It's because some years families allow santa to take annual leave so he takes a break from those houses. No we don't have a chimney because Santa has a special key that lets him into every house he needs to but he can only go into the houses on one night. Maybe I could find something online that's a fake Santa doing a facetime to prove that all of the above is true because otherwise innocence will be stolen and if Timmy's brother comes to school and says otherwise in the playground AIBU to contact the school about his behaviour. It's not his place to say!
I'm obviously being silly with the last example but the hysteria isn't far off the inevitable Santa panic threads.

Sure. But sometimes kids are doing something which is really perfectly fine, might even be good for their learning, but adults just don't want them to do it because it's a bit irritating, or the adults fancy a chat so they tell the kids to be quiet. It's subjective and there's a power dynamic there in the adults saying 'not now' at times when they basically just can't be bothered.

So the choices are to lie to them or to assert your adult authority/ adult comfort is more important than child comfort.

Neither choice is great, I can see why some choose the lie. I don't really think there's much in it.

Clearly different people/families behave differently, but my explanation is how it worked for us and many of our friends - including one who was a (brilliant and patient) childminder.

What?! Father Christmas isn’t real?!

I’m absolutely an advocate for age appropriate honesty, but honestly when it comes to Father Christmas, I’m all in!

Still remember the feeling I had of that stocking weight on my feet! I wanted that joy for my children!

We told our dc that Santa does NOT bring you the presents just the books. Why should some old fictitious person get all the credit for out gifts? Also some kids don't get any presents, does that mean Santa thinks they're bad? Nope, around here Santa is just a character that leaves a book.

Yes everyone's different. There's no perfect way really, whether you lie to kids or not.

Lying can feel very wrong, and not lying can just create other situations that are equally difficult to navigate (like adults needs are more important than children's needs).

Minefield of parenting!

Sure. But sometimes kids are doing something which is really perfectly fine, might even be good for their learning, but adults just don't want them to do it because it's a bit irritating, or the adults fancy a chat so they tell the kids to be quiet. It's subjective and there's a power dynamic there in the adults saying 'not now' at times when they basically just can't be bothered.

So the choices are to lie to them or to assert your adult authority/ adult comfort is more important than child comfort.

Neither choice is great, I can see why some choose the lie. I don't really think there's much in it.
But lying doesn't change the adult/parent dynamic.
If some people don't wish to acknowledge that the parent/child relationship has a power difference then that's up to them, but I suspect those parents aren't the ones lying. They'd have different strategies they use.

What lying suggests is the adult is uncomfortable with exercising the parental role, doesn't want to deal with their child seeing them as the bad guy, and so will lie to protect themselves from their children's entirely natural and normal feelings of disappointment.

It's outsourcing parenting.

Q Can we have sweets today?
Answer 1: not today darling, we can have some another day (and parent supports the child through normal disappointment)
Answer 2: not today darling, the shop's shut (parent avoids having to be the person who says no and gets to pass the blame for the no to someone or something else).

Then again, I also don't like seeing it in shops when instead of parents owning the need to teach their children how to behave some outsource that as well. "Don't touch that, the lady is watching you", "you better behave yourself because the man is watching (looks at security guy)", "I know you want to touch but the shop says no touching". 🙄