Page 12 | The existence of Father Christmas is a lie that children shouldn’t be told

maybein2022 · 2023-12-08T20:20:01+00:00

I’ve noticed on social media recently that a LOT of people are posting about not allowing their children to believe in Father Christmas. The rationale being they don’t lie to their children about other things, and it doesn’t sit comfortably with them to create this big ‘lie’. Some talk about how St Nicholas was a real person, some talk about how other children believe in the magic so they shouldn’t spoil it for them etc. My eldest two are way past believing but it never occurred to me that it was anything more than a harmless story/magic that they would grow out of believing. But I now have a baby/toddler too (too young to understand this year) and wondering if we do the whole thing again. We’ve always done stockings from FC as small, inexpensive gifts, and always done bigger under the tree gifts from us. A lot of the issue comes with of course not all children will get any gifts at all, and therefore it’s awful if they believe in FC and are disappointed or think they’ve been ‘bad’ (kids living in poverty with no parental money to buy anything, kids living with domestic violence etc). Also the idea that FC brings some kids big gifts and some just small. So: (I am still on the fence anyway about it all) YANBU: It’s fine, FC is a magical thing that it’s fine for kids to believe in. YABU: A lie is a lie, kids shouldn’t believe in FC.

RudsyFarmer · 08/12/2023 23:23

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:11

I can’t imagine what sort of arsehole would rob their kids of the existence of magic. I just couldn’t do it

@RudsyFarmer what you’re failing to grasp her is that most people aren’t advocating sitting a 2 yr old down and telling them Santa isn’t real. We’re saying when they’re very young they believe what they want, but as soon as they start questioning we tell them the truth. At the same time we don’t try and prolong the lie by leaving ‘hoof prints’ and basically gas lighting them into believing.

i see. Well aren’t you a much better person than the rest of us. We’re just hideous reprobates who enjoy our kids having a little bit of innocence left in their childhoods before they realise life is pretty bleak and wishes don’t come true. I’m guessing no candles on their birthday cakes either?

BananaPyjamaLlama · 08/12/2023 23:25

@Wellhellooooodear I didnt say I was traumatised, thats a conclusion you've decided upon. I said I was gutted when I found out. ie sad and cross. At the time.

And years later when I had toddlers I didnt want to lie to them, so I didnt.

TwoMoreBoxesJayne · 08/12/2023 23:25

@allmyliesaretrue
to hell with "lying" to children!! Why can't we allow our children this fantasy, excitement and anticipation? Have we actually become so PC that Santa is passe?

Do you honestly think that kids that don't believe in Santa for whatever reason don't enjoy Christmas? It's ridiculous to think they didn't. My kids played along with Santa but never thought he was real. I can't imagine how they could have been any happier and as excited as they used to be. Believing or not believing in Santa is just one small thing.
My kids grew up up a country where it was typically snowy over Christmas. Christmases there were picture perfect. Should I be feeling pity for all the poor kids who experience a typical cold wet UK Xmas? 🤔

Viviennemary · 08/12/2023 23:26

cakeorwine · 08/12/2023 23:22

So Santa doesn't go to children in Gaza or Ukraine because they're not Christian?

How do you explain that to a child? Why does Santa only go to some children?

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I suppose culturally speaking the father Christmas story springs from St Nicholas who was a Christian saint, I've no idea if Muslim and Jewish parents get their children to believe in FC.

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 23:27

TwoMoreBoxesJayne · 08/12/2023 23:25

@allmyliesaretrue
to hell with "lying" to children!! Why can't we allow our children this fantasy, excitement and anticipation? Have we actually become so PC that Santa is passe?

Do you honestly think that kids that don't believe in Santa for whatever reason don't enjoy Christmas? It's ridiculous to think they didn't. My kids played along with Santa but never thought he was real. I can't imagine how they could have been any happier and as excited as they used to be. Believing or not believing in Santa is just one small thing.
My kids grew up up a country where it was typically snowy over Christmas. Christmases there were picture perfect. Should I be feeling pity for all the poor kids who experience a typical cold wet UK Xmas? 🤔

Or kids here? Our Christmas tree is a palm tree 🌴 and we often go to the beach for New Years.

BananaPyjamaLlama · 08/12/2023 23:28

As a side note, its interesting how snippy and cross those that favour the "magic of Santa" approach always get in threads on this question. So defensive. Which in itself says a lot I think.

floppybit · 08/12/2023 23:29

Owlsoutsidethewindow · 08/12/2023 20:39

What I find more strange is that a lot of people now say that Santa only brings one present and the rest is from parents. The people that I know that do this have explicitly said "we don't want a make believe man getting the credit". Surely the magic of it all is what it is about, and seeing your children's faces, not them giving you credit?

I can understand doing this because one child might get less from Santa than others, but it doesn't work that way if the one present Santa brings one child is a PS5 and the other gets socks.

Santa leaves the stocking at the end of your bed. Presents under the tree are not from Santa, stocking only!

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:29

i see. Well aren’t you a much better person than the rest of us. We’re just hideous reprobates who enjoy our kids having a little bit of innocence left in their childhoods before they realise life is pretty bleak and wishes don’t come true. I’m guessing no candles on their birthday cakes either?

@RudsyFarmer um ok, you escalated that. You shouldn’t view other peoples opinions on how they parent as attacks on you personally. If you’re secure in how you parent, then great! And I’m sorry you see life as bleak and wishes as not coming true - things can always change if you want them too. Good luck

headache · 08/12/2023 23:30

A close friend said she wasn’t going to lie to her DC so they didn’t have Santa in their house, their DC started asking for Santa about 4-5 yo as he came to their friends house. They wanted to participate in the make believe even though they knew he wasn’t real.

My own four DC, two I had to tell in P7 so 11 yo he wasn’t real, two knew. I went with the “it doesn’t matter who makes the magic, the magic is still there” they still talk about Santa and believing. They are huge big teens now but they will hang stockings and leave out a carrot etc because it is tradition. They spoke about receding a letter from Santa and how amazing it was he knew things about them. Even to this day they know it’s me (mostly with a bit of Dad) but they say Mum is Christmas, Mum is Santa.

I had a rubbish childhood, neglectful in places and when I had DC I swore they would have great Christmas’ DH says I overcompensate but I don’t care.

Santa is an idea, he’s make believe.

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 23:33

The Aes Sedai of mumsnet are out in force tonight.

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:33

she’ll dance & I have paddle scores & honestly, cookie the dead cat could dance better.However I still hold up a number 6/7/8 because if it was a 2/3 (the truth) she would be sad. & saying ‘you gave it your all’ or another type of avoidance response to her particular questions, seems pretty lame & she’d see right through it.

Ok. Seems a pretty specific situation to you. Most of us don’t hold up paddle scores to our kids…

GrumpyOldCrone · 08/12/2023 23:35

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 23:15

Honestly who had explained to a three year old how babies are really made?!!!

I did. My eldest was three when I was pregnant with my second. I didn’t go into excessive detail, but I told her the basics.

WotNoSanta · 08/12/2023 23:38

I did this with my child because my mum did it with me with the whole "not lying to my child reasoning". It was a mistake. My mum's view came from a traumatic and abusive upbringing with lots of issues around Christmas. It's still not a nice time of year for her.

At about age 7 (when he was much too old to believe tbh) my DS suddenly asked me very sadly "why didn't Santa ever bring him presents like the other children". I, without missing a beat, asked him where he thought his stocking presents came from! He went along with it!

After that we did the whole Santa thing, mince pie and carrot, reindeer food in the garden etc etc. I don't think he honestly believed at that age but I think he wanted to and it was lovely. We really enjoyed the "magic".

If I'd had any more children, I would definitely do Santa. Weirdly I always did the tooth fairy (as did my mum!), no logic there at all! He loved that too. Part of the magic of childhood.

StarDolphins · 08/12/2023 23:38

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:33

she’ll dance & I have paddle scores & honestly, cookie the dead cat could dance better.However I still hold up a number 6/7/8 because if it was a 2/3 (the truth) she would be sad. & saying ‘you gave it your all’ or another type of avoidance response to her particular questions, seems pretty lame & she’d see right through it.

Ok. Seems a pretty specific situation to you. Most of us don’t hold up paddle scores to our kids…

It’s part of a fun night of dancing for a 7 year old. A varied & fun childhood.

Perhaps if you spent less time on insta looking for parenting advice on how not to lie & relaxed a bit, your child/ren could enjoy a magical & fun childhood too.

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:44

It’s part of a fun night of dancing for a 7 year old. A varied & fun childhood.
Perhaps if you spent less time on insta looking for parenting advice on how not to lie & relaxed a bit, your child/ren could enjoy a magical & fun childhood too

You specifically asked me what to do/ what I’d do if my child asked me if their dancing was great when it wasn’t. I said I’d tell them it was a great effort. You then said ‘but what about if you have to hold up paddle boards’. I pointed out this was quite a specific situation to you. Your response is I need to spend less time looking for parenting advice.

I respect your magical fun paddle board rating Saturday nights but it’s just not relevant to my life. Sorry

MaggieBroonofGlebeSt · 08/12/2023 23:44

cakeorwine · 08/12/2023 23:22

So Santa doesn't go to children in Gaza or Ukraine because they're not Christian?

How do you explain that to a child? Why does Santa only go to some children?

Show quote history

Ukrainians are Christian in the main. I have no idea if they have Santa though. My DH's country doesn't have Santa but we still have him at home.

StarDolphins · 08/12/2023 23:44

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:29

i see. Well aren’t you a much better person than the rest of us. We’re just hideous reprobates who enjoy our kids having a little bit of innocence left in their childhoods before they realise life is pretty bleak and wishes don’t come true. I’m guessing no candles on their birthday cakes either?

@RudsyFarmer um ok, you escalated that. You shouldn’t view other peoples opinions on how they parent as attacks on you personally. If you’re secure in how you parent, then great! And I’m sorry you see life as bleak and wishes as not coming true - things can always change if you want them too. Good luck

Edited

So you’ve spend all night on here saying you don’t believe in lies/santa & now you’re sorry that someone doesn’t believe that wishes don’t come true🤣 goodness me, you don’t tell lies but we should believe wishes come true🤣

chachaching · 08/12/2023 23:51

It’s never the end of it when I teach them about something, it is always a beginning, a foundation. I think it’s better to teach your child something than to say nothing and let them flounder around and draw conclusions. It’s like giving a toddler a book and expecting them to work out the alphabet and how to read by naturally drawing their own conclusions as you stated. How do you teach your children which plants, spiders and so on are poisonous? You tell them basic knowledge. It’s my approach that it’s a parent’s responsibility to do the same for any topic they need to know or show and interest in.

So if it's not the end when you teach them something how to you continue teaching them after you tell them something isn't real? You aren't letting them think for themselves.
If I was in an art gallery for example, I'd be interested to know what my children thought the painting was before saying what the artist intended to be perceived, we'd talk about all our thoughts - instead of just telling them what it is. When it comes to imagination and creativity it's not as black and white as fact based learning.
I'm not saying I let my children work out how to read themselves so I have no idea why you've jumped to that when we are talking about Santa and beliefs...
Letting them think for themselves isn't about not giving them any information and saying nothing.

StarDolphins · 08/12/2023 23:51

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:44

It’s part of a fun night of dancing for a 7 year old. A varied & fun childhood.
Perhaps if you spent less time on insta looking for parenting advice on how not to lie & relaxed a bit, your child/ren could enjoy a magical & fun childhood too

You specifically asked me what to do/ what I’d do if my child asked me if their dancing was great when it wasn’t. I said I’d tell them it was a great effort. You then said ‘but what about if you have to hold up paddle boards’. I pointed out this was quite a specific situation to you. Your response is I need to spend less time looking for parenting advice.

I respect your magical fun paddle board rating Saturday nights but it’s just not relevant to my life. Sorry

It doesn’t need to be relevant to your life.

My point was (& still is) that I think most (not you, you never lie) people tell white lies to spare the feeling of their children & provide a fun & stable childhood. We say ‘that’s great’ when it’s not because saying to a 5 year old it wasn’t good isn’t nice. Or when they’re hiding to jump out at us, we pretend(lie) we have t seen them because they find it fun.

Thepossibility · 08/12/2023 23:52

Letting us have Santa was about the only nice thing my parents did for us IMO. Letting someone else get the glory for bringing the presents is quite selfless.

SnuggleBuggleBoo · 08/12/2023 23:56

@Pigeonqueen That must have been so very hard to deal with. I am so sorry.

Justfinking · 08/12/2023 23:56

cakeorwine · 08/12/2023 23:22

So Santa doesn't go to children in Gaza or Ukraine because they're not Christian?

How do you explain that to a child? Why does Santa only go to some children?

Show quote history

Are children really asking about this? These responses are getting really ridiculous and I worry about the state of the next generation if this is what is concerning parents of children now. When I was young I don't think I even thought about Santa at these lengths! I may have written him a letter and he may have brought me a small present and it was a bit of fun. That was the extent of it. If children's lives are revolving around Santa to such an extent then I think these children have far greater issues. Also, parents who do want to teach their children some empathy and consideration to those less fortunate can always donate to a charity or offer time at a shelter which is what I will do when my child is old enough to know about these things

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 23:59

chachaching · 08/12/2023 23:51

It’s never the end of it when I teach them about something, it is always a beginning, a foundation. I think it’s better to teach your child something than to say nothing and let them flounder around and draw conclusions. It’s like giving a toddler a book and expecting them to work out the alphabet and how to read by naturally drawing their own conclusions as you stated. How do you teach your children which plants, spiders and so on are poisonous? You tell them basic knowledge. It’s my approach that it’s a parent’s responsibility to do the same for any topic they need to know or show and interest in.

So if it's not the end when you teach them something how to you continue teaching them after you tell them something isn't real? You aren't letting them think for themselves.
If I was in an art gallery for example, I'd be interested to know what my children thought the painting was before saying what the artist intended to be perceived, we'd talk about all our thoughts - instead of just telling them what it is. When it comes to imagination and creativity it's not as black and white as fact based learning.
I'm not saying I let my children work out how to read themselves so I have no idea why you've jumped to that when we are talking about Santa and beliefs...
Letting them think for themselves isn't about not giving them any information and saying nothing.

Of course I am letting them think for themselves. By your logic we should ban schools, colleges and universities. Part of teaching includes teaching a child how to explore a topic further. How to present and discuss knowledge. How to think critically. These are skills you need to be taught, they don’t just naturally develop.

Letting them think for themselves isn't about not giving them any information and saying nothing. That is how I interpreted your earlier post where if a child asks if Santa is real, you respond with what do you think? That’s not an answer. That is not giving any information. It’s no different from someone asking what’s your name and you going guess my name.

ithinkthatmaybeimdreaming · 09/12/2023 00:09

cakeorwine · 08/12/2023 21:37

Why is it not joyful if a child asks if Santa is real and you say "No he isn't", but here's some nice presents, we'll have a nice time at Christmas, sing songs, see family, give gifts.

I think you can be a joyful person, have a wonderful Christmas, share gifts at Christmas and also not have the need to have the idea of Father Christmas.

People used to do that in the past.

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Not in the recent past they didn't.

What on earth is wrong with bringing a little magic to children's lives while they are little? What is so dreadful about letting them believe in this magic? And I'm saying this as someone who didn't even want children!

Baublewarble · 09/12/2023 00:26

So you’ve spend all night on here saying you don’t believe in lies/santa & now you’re sorry that someone doesn’t believe that wishes don’t come true🤣 goodness me, you don’t tell lies but we should believe wishes come true🤣

@StarDolphins you do realise wishing for something isn’t magical don’t you? To wish simply means to hope for something to happen.