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Original poster

The existence of Father Christmas is a lie that children shouldn’t be told

400 replies

maybein2022 · 08/12/2023 20:20

I’ve noticed on social media recently that a LOT of people are posting about not allowing their children to believe in Father Christmas. The rationale being they don’t lie to their children about other things, and it doesn’t sit comfortably with them to create this big ‘lie’. Some talk about how St Nicholas was a real person, some talk about how other children believe in the magic so they shouldn’t spoil it for them etc.

My eldest two are way past believing but it never occurred to me that it was anything more than a harmless story/magic that they would grow out of believing. But I now have a baby/toddler too (too young to understand this year) and wondering if we do the whole thing again.

We’ve always done stockings from FC as small, inexpensive gifts, and always done bigger under the tree gifts from us. A lot of the issue comes with of course not all children will get any gifts at all, and therefore it’s awful if they believe in FC and are disappointed or think they’ve been ‘bad’ (kids living in poverty with no parental money to buy anything, kids living with domestic violence etc). Also the idea that FC brings some kids big gifts and some just small.

So: (I am still on the fence anyway about it all)

YANBU: It’s fine, FC is a magical thing that it’s fine for kids to believe in.
YABU: A lie is a lie, kids shouldn’t believe in FC.

OP posts:
StarDolphins · 08/12/2023 23:09

Calmdown14 · 08/12/2023 22:53

As for the not lying, I've just told my six year old she's great at singing Rudolph the redness reindeer complete with actions. In reality it was pretty tune less and she missed half of them out but I'm sure no one would actually say that.
She tried hard and I want her to enjoy doing her show next week.

Similarly I lie that I cannot see her when she's hiding behind a cushion, lie that I can't guess which paw patrol is her favourite etc, etc

@Baublewarble so what about these examples that I’m certain we’ve all done?

Either your child is perfect oryou’ve lied to them in a game or you’ve said ‘well done’ when actually you thought it was out of tune or just shit. In the name of ‘never telling lies’ are you just going to turn around to a 5/6 year old & say ‘not good’?

When my DD is screaming on karaoke or dancing round like a drunk, am I just expected to say it’s shit?

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 08/12/2023 23:09

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:04

*“How did she die? Can I see her? Please Mum, I want to say goodbye to her”

”Well a nice lady on the internet says I mustn’t lie to you, so let’s start by emptying the wheely bin and go from there*

@WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps you're doing bloody gymnastics with this one. The answer would simply be ‘no, she was hit by a car and is a bit of a mess, you wouldn’t want to see her’ or thereabouts. The fact you think the only other option here is to get a dead cat out of a bin is astonishing frankly. How do you basic parent?

Edited

Oh right, so you would give unpleasant details. Though you’d use euphemisms. Sounds like telling fibs to me.

I parented fine thanks. Mine grew up into very lovely and intelligent adults. I told the unvarnished truth when it was right to, and told lies to children when it was right to.

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 23:10

I think telling a young child their was a bit of a mess when their pet died could send their brain into overdrive and be quite traumatic for them.

BananaPyjamaLlama · 08/12/2023 23:10

@BabaBarrio Exactly! Thankyou for your comment. We have just as much fun at Christmas as any other family......... We have stockings, we make jokes about "you'd better be good or santa wont come" etc but we are all in on the joke. All the fun but without the lies.

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:11

I can’t imagine what sort of arsehole would rob their kids of the existence of magic. I just couldn’t do it

@RudsyFarmer what you’re failing to grasp her is that most people aren’t advocating sitting a 2 yr old down and telling them Santa isn’t real. We’re saying when they’re very young they believe what they want, but as soon as they start questioning we tell them the truth. At the same time we don’t try and prolong the lie by leaving ‘hoof prints’ and basically gas lighting them into believing.

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 23:11

chachaching · 08/12/2023 23:05

Hmm that sounds like opting out of a key part of parenting, which is teaching your children about the world. That’s called a “Google it” parent.

Surely a "Google it" parent is the opposite of what I do... we explore, we go down different paths finding out, and always figure it out eventually. Which then builds on their skills to using their own rational to come to a decision on their own terms when they are ready to do so.
A "Google it" parent sounds more what you do, tell them the answer and that's it, end of.

It’s never the end of it when I teach them about something, it is always a beginning, a foundation. I think it’s better to teach your child something than to say nothing and let them flounder around and draw conclusions. It’s like giving a toddler a book and expecting them to work out the alphabet and how to read by naturally drawing their own conclusions as you stated. How do you teach your children which plants, spiders and so on are poisonous? You tell them basic knowledge. It’s my approach that it’s a parent’s responsibility to do the same for any topic they need to know or show any interest in.

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 08/12/2023 23:12

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 23:05

I do. You do not. Courts frequently tell counsel and witnesses to not digress into unnecessary or irrelevant details.

Show quote history

Yes, I really do. I appear in front of judges every week. My living is sifting facts, examining witnesses and making arguments in court. Please don’t pursue this.

BananaPyjamaLlama · 08/12/2023 23:12

And........ its not about being worthy fgs. Its just about not telling and perpetuating a lie. Because we tell our kids not to lie so we should either.

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:13

Oh right, so you would give unpleasant details. Though you’d use euphemisms. Sounds like telling fibs to me

I feel a little bit like you’re throwing around words (euphemisms) and phrases (the whole truth) without actually knowing what they mean. Lets leave it here

Bumblefuzz · 08/12/2023 23:13

cakeorwine · 08/12/2023 20:37

Why doesn't Santa come to some children in the UK?
How will Santa get to Gaza? The Ukraine?
Will all children get presents?

Just some of the awkward potential questions a child could ask.

Do we need Santa as an idea?

Bit of an odd question given the people of Ukraine/Gaza are in the majority Jewish or Muslim. Children of the UK in the early C20. we're still allowed to believe despite 2 world wars and rationing.

allmyliesaretrue · 08/12/2023 23:14

I haven't read all the posts because some of them are just pissing me off so dramatically!!

Santa Claus emanated from St Nicholas, so a religious figure originally.

Santa Claus is one of the most magical figures of childhood - I felt it and so did my children. My eldest was so very excited one Christmas morning that they covered their eyes and said, "I can't see, I can't see"!! Anyone who deprives their child of that is an asshole.

To hell with "lying" to children!! Why can't we allow our children this fantasy, excitement and anticipation? Have we actually become so PC that Santa is passe?

They have so many shitty things to face into in their young lives, can't we just leave Santa be?

As for affording Santa, we always told our kids that we had to pay Santa for the gifts he left, therefore avoiding any excessive requests.

The world has actually gone mad.

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 08/12/2023 23:14

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:13

Oh right, so you would give unpleasant details. Though you’d use euphemisms. Sounds like telling fibs to me

I feel a little bit like you’re throwing around words (euphemisms) and phrases (the whole truth) without actually knowing what they mean. Lets leave it here

Yes, let’s.

supercatlady · 08/12/2023 23:15

If you don’t believe, you don’t receive 😳

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/12/2023 23:15

Says who?

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 23:15

Honestly who had explained to a three year old how babies are really made?!!!

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:16

Either your child is perfect oryou’ve lied to them in a game or you’ve said ‘well done’ when actually you thought it was out of tune or just shit. In the name of ‘never telling lies’ are you just going to turn around to a 5/6 year old & say ‘not good’? When my DD is screaming on karaoke or dancing round like a drunk, am I just expected to say it’s shit?

no @StarDolphins i would say something like ‘well done, you gave that your all’ or similar. If you’re on Insta then the Big Life Journal is really helpful with things like this. You can get loads of tips for the things to say to build up esteem without lying.

BananaPyjamaLlama · 08/12/2023 23:18

Baublewarble - gaslighting! Exactly the word I was trying to remember.
Its so odd to me. We tell women they shouldnt tolerate their husbands bullying them, hitting them and yet somehow....... many make a case for bullying and hitting (reclassified as smacking) their children.
We tell people about gaslighting, dont allow yourself to be in a relationship where that is happening.
We teach our children not to tell lies, tell the truth about what happened.
But then apparently its ok to tell lies about Santa and gaslight our children into believing the magic.

And then say that the children of people like me are "to be pitied" cos I "destroy magic". Which is utter nonsense.

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 23:19

BananaPyjamaLlama · 08/12/2023 23:10

@BabaBarrio Exactly! Thankyou for your comment. We have just as much fun at Christmas as any other family......... We have stockings, we make jokes about "you'd better be good or santa wont come" etc but we are all in on the joke. All the fun but without the lies.

Playing pretend is fun and we do it a lot, but for us we feel that everyone needs to be aware we are all playing pretend for it to be fun for everyone.

Wellhellooooodear · 08/12/2023 23:19

BananaPyjamaLlama · 08/12/2023 23:07

@NonPlayerCharacter "immersive roleplay at an age when they dont know the difference"
There are LOADS of kids who are 8+ 10+ (even 12yos) plenty old enough to know the difference but dont. They often find out at school and get laughed at, bullied for it as a result. And go home and tell their parents how cross they are that they were lied too.
However you dress it up, its a lie.

Playing at an imaginary game for an afternoon and a different one the next week etc is a world away from every year telling and retelling the same lie as if its genuinely true.
I was gutted when I found out that my parents had been lying to me about it and wished they had never done so.

You are the exception then. I don't think there are many kids who are traumatised because they found out santa isn't real. Sorry its affected you so badly.

Nicesalad · 08/12/2023 23:20

Newsenmum · 08/12/2023 20:51

Because adults don’t actually believe in Father Christmas

Show quote history

But, why is it ok for adults to lie to children about the existence of man that they know doesn't exist. But when adults tell children that someone that they actually believe is real is real then it's ok to make fun?

WinterParakeets · 08/12/2023 23:20

It's not a lie, it's make believe.

cakeorwine · 08/12/2023 23:22

Bumblefuzz · 08/12/2023 23:13

Bit of an odd question given the people of Ukraine/Gaza are in the majority Jewish or Muslim. Children of the UK in the early C20. we're still allowed to believe despite 2 world wars and rationing.

Show quote history

So Santa doesn't go to children in Gaza or Ukraine because they're not Christian?

How do you explain that to a child? Why does Santa only go to some children?

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 23:22

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 08/12/2023 23:12

Yes, I really do. I appear in front of judges every week. My living is sifting facts, examining witnesses and making arguments in court. Please don’t pursue this.

Show quote history

Explains your highly selective sifting of facts in order to make an argument, and then having the gall to state that a list of only the facts you haven’t sifted out is “the whole truth”

😉

WillowCraft · 08/12/2023 23:23

cakeorwine · 08/12/2023 21:59

Santa is quite a big lie.
Does your child ever ask why other children in families only get 1 present but they get all their gifts from Santa?

Show quote history

How would a young child know what other children get? I don't think I had any clue what other people's traditions were until much older, and even then only if I happened to visit their house on Xmas day or boxing day.

Anyway it's a weird thing to worry about... What else do you restrict for your own children because some child somewhere doesn't have it?

If your 6 year old child did find out a friend had received no presents what would you tell them as a reason? (Remember it's got to be true!)

StarDolphins · 08/12/2023 23:23

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 23:16

Either your child is perfect oryou’ve lied to them in a game or you’ve said ‘well done’ when actually you thought it was out of tune or just shit. In the name of ‘never telling lies’ are you just going to turn around to a 5/6 year old & say ‘not good’? When my DD is screaming on karaoke or dancing round like a drunk, am I just expected to say it’s shit?

no @StarDolphins i would say something like ‘well done, you gave that your all’ or similar. If you’re on Insta then the Big Life Journal is really helpful with things like this. You can get loads of tips for the things to say to build up esteem without lying.

My DD will quite often say ‘did you like my singing’ or when we watch strictly, she’ll dance & I have paddle scores & honestly, cookie the dead cat could dance better.

However I still hold up a number 6/7/8 because if it was a 2/3 (the truth) she would be sad. & saying ‘you gave it your all’ or another type of avoidance response to her particular questions, seems pretty lame & she’d see right through it.