The existence of Father Christmas is a lie that children shouldn’t be told

[maybein2022]

I’ve noticed on social media recently that a LOT of people are posting about not allowing their children to believe in Father Christmas. The rationale being they don’t lie to their children about other things, and it doesn’t sit comfortably with them to create this big ‘lie’. Some talk about how St Nicholas was a real person, some talk about how other children believe in the magic so they shouldn’t spoil it for them etc.

My eldest two are way past believing but it never occurred to me that it was anything more than a harmless story/magic that they would grow out of believing. But I now have a baby/toddler too (too young to understand this year) and wondering if we do the whole thing again.

We’ve always done stockings from FC as small, inexpensive gifts, and always done bigger under the tree gifts from us. A lot of the issue comes with of course not all children will get any gifts at all, and therefore it’s awful if they believe in FC and are disappointed or think they’ve been ‘bad’ (kids living in poverty with no parental money to buy anything, kids living with domestic violence etc). Also the idea that FC brings some kids big gifts and some just small.

So: (I am still on the fence anyway about it all)

YANBU: It’s fine, FC is a magical thing that it’s fine for kids to believe in.
YABU: A lie is a lie, kids shouldn’t believe in FC.

My point was (& still is) that I think most (not you, you never lie) people tell white lies to spare the feeling of their children & provide a fun & stable childhood. We say ‘that’s great’ when it’s not because saying to a 5 year old it wasn’t good isn’t nice. Or when they’re hiding to jump out at us, we pretend(lie) we have t seen them because they find it fun

a white lie is a lie told to save someone’s feelings. Telling an older child who asks, that Santa exists isn’t that. .

If there’s a mumsnet secret Santa can I have @StarDolphinspleae? I’d get a dictionary

You can't really hold up the past as some glorious 'we didn't let children believe fantastical lies' paradise.

I'm the past telling children they would go to hell for fairly minor behaviour was fairly standard. Father Christmas and his history actually represents a new, more civilised approach to children where we don't send them up chimneys, butcher them to protect political movements or legacy's or subject them to state sponsored child abuse. (Victorians, Middle England, Ancient Greece)

Humans have always used myths to explain the world and the collective stories tend to tell us how to work in our society and bind us together. A society without shared myths and cultures always falls apart. And yes, myths and shared beliefs evolve and change but believing in Santa has so much more power than the beige aesthetic alternative. I just can't see society abandoning Santa tbh. There are much greater lies we engage in, like how eating meat is fine and animals we eat don't feel fear or live happy lives. I tell my child the truth about that, but accept that as it's counter culture I have to learn to live in a culture that tells those lies. The Santa lie pales in comparison and is far less selfish if you ask me.

Oh and the I don't lie to my child people sooo tell that lie I absolutely guarantee it.

I remember the magic that Santa brought me as a child. I don't see what's wrong with carrying that on for my own DC in the hopes that it gives them the same joy that I had growing up.

I certainly didn't feel lied to.

That is how I interpreted your earlier post where if a child asks if Santa is real, you respond with what do you think? That’s not an answer. That is not giving any information. It’s no different from someone asking what’s your name and you going guess my name.

Sorry which post did I say this?
I didn't say that - I said I allow my children to explore themselves and not be told what to think when it comes to beliefs. I encourage them to think for themselves. If my child doesn't think Santa is real that's absolutely fine but I do prefer them to explore why they think that and it not just be because I told them he's not.
Also open ended questions are constantly used in early years learning and have a whole host of benefits.

@RedToothBrush totally agree! The world is going to the dogs. Let children believe in the magic. They’re only little for a short while

I love Christmas, I always went all out when my girl was little. But I was careful to never definitively confirm that Father Christmas was a real person. When she eventually asked me I said "Well some people believe he's real and some don't, but I think it's much more fun to believe than not". She was more than happy with that and has carried on enjoying all the Christmas traditions (now with a knowing twinkle) to this day. No harm, no foul.

No matter what you tell your kids or how you celebrate, Christmas is a time for, joy however you choose to find it. I hope everyone has a Very Merry Christmas.

Edited to add that I have no clue how that Gif got there or how to delete it. Happy Christmas 😂😂😂

When mine were little:

No tooth fairy... When their teeth came out, we went and bought a new book and put their teeth in a special pot.

Easter...we gave them their eggs Easter morning. Always used half an egg as a cereal bowl.

You can't have a sweet now because it's too close to dinner/you've already had 5/it's too late/you've just had your breakfast. Then deflect onto what I would like.

You can't have that toy right now because it's too noisy/annoys the cat/we're going out/too simulating at this time of day. Then deflect onto a different choice and maybe tell them a time/day they can have the toy.

It's called parenting. Helping your child learn in every situation. No need to lie.

OP, whatever you did for your first 2 dc you need to do for your third. I'd stop agonising over it, I've known so many children of different familial/ monetary backgrounds and they've all been captivated by the idea of FC.

We never felt the need to do it.
It did feel like unnecessary lying.
DH agreed. We still had amazing Christmasses though.

We didn't lie about the tooth fairy, easter bunny, or anything else either.

Of course, each to their own.

Indeed.
Imagine not being able to accept different views.
🙄

My home educating friend refused to let her kids believe in Santa and barely celebrated Christmas at all. Her oldest DD was best friends with my DD and she used to be sad that she was different from other kids.

A couple of days the DD posted a picture of her own kids and her in matching Christmas PJs in front of a massive tree, she obviously wants different for her kids.

YANBU. It's just a bit of fun. It's up to the individual parents of course but all this angst about "lying to children" is so dramatic to me. Literally nobody I know is traumatised into adulthood by finding out Santa isn't real and if you are then maybe some counselling is in order because it's a very OTT reaction.

There's actually been research in this with some researchers believing by that discovering the truth about the 'Santa lie' can help develop children's critical thinking skills. Personally I don't want my children to grow up with out joy or the ability to believe in the good in people. In a world where everyone is selfish and only out for their own gain, Santa is a selfless entity. It represents the better aspect of the season. Just depends on how you teach your children. We don't lord the concept of santa over them though.

www.bbc.com/future/article/20221124-should-you-tell-your-child-the-truth-about-santa

This.
I haven't lied to my child either.
I've answered honestly, in age appropriate ways.
I've also been honest when I don't actually have an answer, because some questions are very hard to answer/don't have one!
My child is a teenager now and understands how I feel about lying and being lied to.
I don't think this makes me in any way a better human, I just abhor the concept of lying - sometimes I wish I could lie because it does make life easier!

Well done.
It's definitely possible to explain the basics in an age appropriate way.

I have never heard a child ask these questions.

I think this is an adult brain projecting onto children.

Most children simply do not really think like this.

You might be surprised what some young children think about/ask!

I really respect this approach and not lying to your children.

But what do you do if for example you don't want them to have the noisy toy because it's just annoying for you/ other adults?

Do you just say no, it's too annoying? But it's something they really enjoy and could learn from, so why is your comfort more important than that?

If you tell them the truth then you are telling them you are putting your own happiness and comfort above theirs.

Some truths are harsh and highlight a certain power dynamic between adults and children. It can lessen the blow to say oh no, that toy isn't working etc. I think that's why people tell white lies sometimes.

I don't know if I really agree with it as such, but I do completely understand lies like this.

I have worked in schools and nurseries and know a LOT of children. I haven't heard a child ask these questions. I'm not saying none ever would think like this, but it's pretty rare.

My recollection is that the story of st Nicholas was that he was a rich person who left food and kindling outside poor people's homes and did not boast about it to others (very abridged). This evolved into Santa/father Christmas. If you feel that a mystery man leaving gifts for children who may or may not be required to be good, why not continue the good work of st Nicholas through taking your DC's to help at a food bank or soup kitchen or some other visible public good works?

I presume those who "don't perpetrate the lie" don't do elf on the shelf?

I think it's a harmless "lie" for small children whilst they're still gullible enough to believe things like that.

Where I think it goes too far is when people start going to Lapland to see an imaginary man and spending thousands of pounds on perpetuating it. And dragging out the lie and trying to make sure their children still believe at 11, 12 + years old.

That's when it gets tricky as finding out the truth at that age is bound to be a bit devestating, whereas if the truth dawns on you naturally as a younger child it will just be what it is meant to be - a bit of fun.

I'm not ignoring your experience, but equally some young minds can be quite sharp/think a lot about specific things. I also remember my own child at the 'why' stage, and that led to some very interesting chats at times.....🤣

Regarding the noisy toys, we did have those but we also had different sorts of play - noisy, quiet, messy, more structured, less structured (aka go nuts), inside, outside. I found it quite easy to teach my child that there were times/places/boundaries as to what he could play with and when!

I have thought about this a lot, and I am firmly in the camp of the magic being worth it.

I think the number of people who actually feel resentful that their parents 'lied' to them, although it does happen, is a very small minority.

Most people feel the way I feel - that their parents went to a lot of effort to make Christmas a very magical and wonderful time. I remember believing in Santa and how special that was. I'm glad that my parents did that for me.

Believing in magic is not a bad thing. It's a very special thing about the way our brains are wired as children, that we are able to suspend disbelief and let our imaginations thrive. We lose that as adults

I think calling Santa a lie is a very negative and sad way to frame the magic of Christmas. It's not a lie - it's love and magic.

Each to their own, but my kids will have Father Christmas in their lives and I make no apologies for that.

I said it's rare, not impossible. I mean how many children have you heard asking how Santa is going to get to Gaza? The vast majority simply don't think this way.