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Blazing row about Michael Jackson

644 replies

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 12:44

I know it sounds ridiculous on the face of it but hear me out.

I was in a shop with DP last night and they were playing Michael Jackson music. I commented that I don't like hearing his music as I can't get past everything he did. Yes, I know he wasn't convicted but he openly admitted to sleeping in bed with random children, showering together and whatever else.

DP said "we have different opinions on that, he's a really good artist" to which I replied something about Rolph Harris being a good artist and Jimmy Saville being a good fund raiser.

DP then goes on to say he doesn't think MJ did anything untoward with the children and he thinks it's all innocent and because he had a "childlike mind" due to not having a proper childhood.

I said that was no excuse and plenty of people have bad or unusual childhoods and don't groom children.

He was getting defensive and talking about how he was found not guilty in court, to which I pointed out how few rape and sexual abuse cases even make it to court let alone conviction.

I asked whether he'd listened to anything the men on Leaving Neverland said before he formed his opinion that MJ wasn't guilty of anything. He said no, and refused to look it up.

It descended into a row and I was very hurt by some of the things he said, as I have a history of child sexual abuse and rape - which he knows all about.

I asked him whether he would have gladly left our DS in the company of someone like MJ unsupervised and he took a while to answer before saying "I don't know"

I said how that concerned me from a safeguarding perspective to which he took huge offence, started shouting and told me to return all of the presents i'd bought him as he doesnt want them anymore, the immature dickhead.

Now we're not talking.

Was I being unreasonable here?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
ANightingale · 17/12/2023 18:39

Lambiriyani · 17/12/2023 18:36

What happened to saville's estate in the wake of the fact we found out he did do it?

According to Wikipedia:

Savile's estate, believed to be worth about £4–4.3 million, was frozen by its executors, NatWest bank, in view of the possibility that those alleging that they had been assaulted by Savile could make claims for damages.[172][173] After "a range of expenses" were charged to the estate, a remainder of about £3.3 million was available to compensate victims, those victims not having a claim against another entity (such as the BBC or the National Health Service) being given priority, and all victims limited to a maximum claim of £60,000 against all entities combined. The compensation scheme was approved in late 2014 by the courts."avile's estate, believed to be worth about £4–4.3 million, was frozen by its executors, NatWest bank, in view of the possibility that those alleging that they had been assaulted by Savile could make claims for damages.[172][173] After "a range of expenses" were charged to the estate, a remainder of about £3.3 million was available to compensate victims, those victims not having a claim against another entity (such as the BBC or the National Health Service) being given priority, and all victims limited to a maximum claim of £60,000 against all entities combined. The compensation scheme was approved in late 2014 by the courts.

Lambiriyani · 17/12/2023 18:40

ANightingale · 17/12/2023 18:39

According to Wikipedia:

Savile's estate, believed to be worth about £4–4.3 million, was frozen by its executors, NatWest bank, in view of the possibility that those alleging that they had been assaulted by Savile could make claims for damages.[172][173] After "a range of expenses" were charged to the estate, a remainder of about £3.3 million was available to compensate victims, those victims not having a claim against another entity (such as the BBC or the National Health Service) being given priority, and all victims limited to a maximum claim of £60,000 against all entities combined. The compensation scheme was approved in late 2014 by the courts."avile's estate, believed to be worth about £4–4.3 million, was frozen by its executors, NatWest bank, in view of the possibility that those alleging that they had been assaulted by Savile could make claims for damages.[172][173] After "a range of expenses" were charged to the estate, a remainder of about £3.3 million was available to compensate victims, those victims not having a claim against another entity (such as the BBC or the National Health Service) being given priority, and all victims limited to a maximum claim of £60,000 against all entities combined. The compensation scheme was approved in late 2014 by the courts.

Thanks for telling me

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 19:10

I choose to listen to victims.

You are saying - despite evidence of boys, victims and MJ himself - that boys never slept over?

Bit weird to dent this when even the nonce admits he did it.

Nope. That’s not what I said at all. Have another read of the actual words written, Get a grown up to help you if need be. You’ll get there pumpkin 👍🏼

Now you’re denying that he never made friends with little boys? What? We SAW his creepy parade of little boys! Constantly in the 80’s 90’s and 00’s. Why did he have Jordan Chandler sit on his crotch at a concert? Was it a mirage?

Again, still not what was said. Try again.
So you have selective memory it seems. That’s convenient. You mean to say you don’t remember seeing Jennifer Love Hewitt, Brandy, Stevanna, Autumn, Genevieve, Stacee Brown, Yashee Brown,Chantal Robson, Joy Robson, Quinn Culkin, Dakota Culkin, Jennifer Adamson, Kelly Parker, Lilly Chandler or Jo Smythe at all to name a few?

It was Lily sitting on his lap in the footage they regurgitate in the likes of the Channel 4 documentary whilst saying it’s Jordan…..strange that. And it was at The World Music Awards in Monaco.

PS you are mistaken in thinking those who gave deposition are the only ones with relevant voices. Do you understand how the US court system works? Also depositions are just words. And whose deposition is so compelling that it cancels out all the boys he paraded around as his little pals, prepped for abuse?

Not a deposition, but how about actual court testimony from the people named as victims and also the likes of staff who told ‘what they saw’ and were held up as trustworthy heroes only for them to crumble on the stand and admit they had made up the stories because they were offered so much money by the media. The higher the payments got the more gross the stories got. I’d say that was pretty damning to the prosecution wouldn’t you 😂

Please educate yourself before posting shite. Rape of children includes any penetration of them

Which was never claimed because an examination would be necessary and would show no such damage.

No he raped them when he had them alone on many occasions. Who do you think was supervising while they slept in his bed? A bodyguard? Give us a name.

Which according to them in leaving neverland was hundreds of times all the time. Only for their past interviews to fuck them up with information about how they were only on the ranch with MJ 4 times out of 14 visits, how there were always groups of them and how everybody would fall asleep where they dropped including the movie theatre, arcade. Both parents, family and friends alike. Not to mention guests.

You want a name - Sure - Frank Casio used to stay.

MY lack of intelligence - HA! You are pretending your hero isn’t the biggest fucking nonce ever when it’s clear he is!

No need to pretend. I’m merely relaying all the long recorded facts and evidence - a lot from the accusers themselves that fucks up their entire story, It’s not even opinion, it’s now the history of.

If he molested kids we haven’t heard from any of them yet.

You are gross calling CSA victims lying pricks. Absolutely revolting.

Nope, just the likes of the Arvizo’s, Robson and Safechuck for example. Ya know, the ones with multiple versions of events they flip flop between and have trouble remembering themselves.

Ive asked a few times for you to post evidence about a hot air balloon and the ‘continents he never went to’ etc. Which confinements? you haven’t posted a single source. The train station WAS built and people have posted evidence. Either you or the other apologists said something about the Grammy’s / yet I can access YT videos showing he was there.

The hot air ballon is part of the story the Arvizo’s went to court with. Go read it all.
The continents issue they have is this. He claims abuse at thanksgiving dinner in Simi Valley in 1988. Simi Valley is in California which is in the continent of North America. Jackson was in Austrailia performing on the Bad tour, Australia is in the continent of Oceania. They are 11,500km apart. They are 2 separate continents.
The train station was not built. We know this from ariel footage of the early to mid 90’s, Liz Taylor’s wedding that was in that part of the ranch, the building permits from Santa Barbara County, confirmed by the contractors that actually built the bloody thing and the guy that used to run the whole thing to name a few.
What is even more delicious is that 1] Reed has conceded himself that it was definitely not there and it was the dates of abuse he had gotten wrong, throwing his lead actor under the bus and simultaneously sinking the whole little boy and replacement narrative of the previous 30 years and 2) Safechuck posted a picture of him at the station ‘at the time’ as evidence. What he failed to notice is the tiny HIStory album plaque in the background for like going Gold or something. HIStory wasn’t released until JUNE 1995 dating it even older than we first thought 😂🤣😂🤣 Absolutely stunning 😂🤣😂🤣

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 19:17

In the court filings they claim an abusive situation which they were petrified of etc, in the leaving neverland version the narrative is clearly one of a genuine love and fulfilling sex life which they both enjoyed and looked forward to for a start 🤮🤮🤮

Go read the previous filings and watch the deposition. Then watch leaving neverland. It’s glorious how thick they think you all are.

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 19:21

😂🤣 You can pretend that all you like. It won’t change any of what they have done or said or what has been long recorded into legal history.

You carry on with your spittle flecked keyboard bashing and screaming into your little echo chamber while the rest of the world will continue celebrating and loving Michael Jackson and will look forward to many more large projects and records being set thanks to leaving neverland crumbling with the most basic of fact checking and the un-cancelling of Mr Jackson.

I will however continue to enjoy my heavy music which is where my passion truly lies.

TTFN

Lambiriyani · 17/12/2023 19:23

I'm going to listen to some MJ after dinner tonight

Firefly1987 · 18/12/2023 02:41

Right so only poor people can be child abusers. If rich people are accused it’s because the accuser wants money. I mean the fact that on many countries (including the UK) you cannot sue in lieu of a criminal conviction doesn’t matter. Rich people can’t be abusers. Children accusing rich people are liars. Including Saville’s accusers presumably? Thanks for that.

Never said that but if there was ever a false accusation against anyone I'm sure money would be one of the top motives. Saville had absolutely hundreds of accusations-so if you're trying to make a comparison it's a fail.

This thread isn’t about Jackson’s childhood. It’s about his victims. And I admire your attempt to make ME look like the concern but I don’t believe I’ve ever said anything about physical abuse not mattering? Stop making things up, it’s extremely embarrasing.

And yet further down you say "As an aside I couldn’t give a fuck about Jackson’s childhood." doesn't sound like I'm making anything up? Perhaps you'd like to clarify what you meant by that? You believe him but you don't give a fuck (that he was beaten and thrown against walls) or you don't believe he was a victim?

Yes it is about his childhood-his whole entire reason for having kids around him was he felt like he didn't have a childhood. Whether he used that as a cover to secretly abuse children or whether it was just some naive innocent way for him to deal with his messed up childhood is the ENTIRE discussion here.

But seeing as you ask if a man came and said “I was physically abused as a child and this is why I have inappropriate and abusive relationships with little boys” I wouldn’t yawn I’d call the police.

Michael never admitted to having abusive relationships with little boys so calling the police wouldn't do much as whatever he did admit to isn't actually illegal. Did Wade and James go to the police? I'd certainly have advised them to do that rather than go to a movie director.

As an aside I couldn’t give a fuck about Jackson’s childhood. I have no sympathy for pedophiles and their excuses for tuning children’s lives.

Why do you care about one child and not the other-we're not even talking about adult Michael now we're talking about his childhood, when he was an innocent kid and you "couldn't give a fuck"-even though you claim we should all believe victims. This is why you don't sound rational-you have a complete inability to separate child MJ from adult MJ-you think because Michael was a paedophile (in your opinion) he got what he deserved as a child don't you? Or at the least you don't care, you have ZERO sympathy for that child. I think you should reflect on that. No one thinks he can use a bad childhood as an excuse for abusing children. Whether he abused anyone AT ALL is what is up for debate which you don't seem to be able to grasp.

It’s quite amusing that your ‘evidence’ for Jackson being beaten is words from Jackson himself - a proven liar. Even YOU must concede he lied about not having plastic surgery? So why should we believe him about this?

His mother and siblings have said the same. It's a damn shame Joe never faced a courtroom for it.
Yes Michael did lie-he was taught to lie by Joe as a child-lying to say he was younger than his real age to make him seem even MORE impressive. No wonder he had such a screwed up sense of self and need to stay in a childlike state with parenting like that.

Back in the early noughties everyone lied about plastic surgery-it's not like it is now where people tell you everything they've had done. To be fair it's absolutely no one else's business what surgery he had and if wanted to keep that to himself or outright lie about it that's his prerogative. It's not exactly on the same level as lying about serious stuff now is it?

To add - by YOUR standards Joseph Jackson is innocent. He’s never been convicted in a court of law after all, it’s just hearsay. He’s also rich so probably just after his money. You couldn’t possibly believe the accusations, right? YOUR standards BTW, not mine.

He was innocent as far as the law is concerned but I can have my own opinion just like you can-and if you told me you thought he was innocent I wouldn't go on a huge rant about why I was right and you were wrong and why you shouldn't be around children because you have a different opinion to me...I would however think it was weird you didn't practice what you preach and believe all victims of abuse since you are so dead set on everyone else believing victims.

No. show me a woman who behaved like pedophile Jackson

Show me ANYONE who behaved like Michael.

What the hell is a ‘high bar’ to you?!

I only know of Jordy, Gavin, Wade and James. There were no pornographic books of naked little boys! THIS is exactly why I still have doubts, there is SO much misinformation. How the fuck do you think he got let off if they found literal child porn?! They didn't. I would at the minimum have to hear all the evidence, or trust in a jury that heard all the evidence and then made a decision-which is what I have done so far...

Just admit you don’t WANT to believe your creepy little hero can be an abuser.

Yeah obviously it would be better if no kids got abused, why would anyone WANT it to be true.

No because I’m right - you are unfit to be around kids.

Because of a discussion over a dead pop star?! One where I've repeatedly said what he did was weird and inappropriate. You sound completely balanced and rational...not. People are allowed to have doubts and discussions over something, especially when they don't even know all the evidence (because it's incredibly hard to decipher) adults should be able to have respectful discussions without getting crazily heated and throwing insane (hurtful) insults about someone they don't even knows fitness to be around children!

YOU are the only one admitting you don't care what happened to MJ as a child.

VanityDiesHard · 18/12/2023 09:22

Mirabai · 17/12/2023 19:50

If so you might be interested in this Washington Post article about MJ lyrics in the context of his abuse.

https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2019/03/leaving-neverland-every-michael-jackson-song-sounds-different-today.html

Only if you believe the 'documentary'. Which I don't.

Mirabai · 18/12/2023 09:33

VanityDiesHard · 18/12/2023 09:22

Only if you believe the 'documentary'. Which I don't.

I don’t think anyone cares what you believe.

VanityDiesHard · 18/12/2023 09:37

Mirabai · 18/12/2023 09:33

I don’t think anyone cares what you believe.

Ok, so stop trying to convince (browbeat) everyone that your way of thinking is correct.

Mirabai · 18/12/2023 10:23

I’ve actually engaged with you very little on this thread.

If people don’t like my posts they could stop defending a paedophile.

VanityDiesHard · 18/12/2023 11:26

Mirabai · 18/12/2023 10:23

I’ve actually engaged with you very little on this thread.

If people don’t like my posts they could stop defending a paedophile.

Edited

Or you could try to stop insisting that Jackson was a pedophile, and taking hearsay/lies as fact.

Mirabai · 18/12/2023 12:55

So in actual fact, you’re trying to control what I say.

The OP makes very clear her position on MJ her first post. - if you don’t like the subject matter of the thread you’re free to leave and take your apologist friends with you.

VanityDiesHard · 18/12/2023 12:56

Mirabai · 18/12/2023 12:55

So in actual fact, you’re trying to control what I say.

The OP makes very clear her position on MJ her first post. - if you don’t like the subject matter of the thread you’re free to leave and take your apologist friends with you.

The OP asked if she was being unreasonable, and people answered.

Mirabai · 18/12/2023 13:03

She asked if she was being UR getting upset with her bf, not whether she was UR in thinking MJ committed sexual abuse. That’s a given.

Catsmere · 18/12/2023 19:53

And given her DP's history of taking an actual conviction in court to be "nasty rumours" and exposing his child to that paedophile, and OP's history of CSA which her DP knows about, she had every bloody reason to be angry and upset with him.

Oh and her DP finally watched Leaving Neverland and changed his opinion about MJ.

Begsthequestion · 18/12/2023 20:10

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 18:28

The funny part is the absolute desperation for this stuff to be true and how angry you get when basic points and facts fuck up the whole thing 😂🤣

I don't know who you think you're replying to. I'm just wondering why you're going off like this in general, throwing around insults and laughing emojis. Bizarre behaviour.

Tourniquet81 · 18/12/2023 23:25

To the one who asked what was so funny. So many notifications I can’t keep up with them either

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