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Blazing row about Michael Jackson

644 replies

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 12:44

I know it sounds ridiculous on the face of it but hear me out.

I was in a shop with DP last night and they were playing Michael Jackson music. I commented that I don't like hearing his music as I can't get past everything he did. Yes, I know he wasn't convicted but he openly admitted to sleeping in bed with random children, showering together and whatever else.

DP said "we have different opinions on that, he's a really good artist" to which I replied something about Rolph Harris being a good artist and Jimmy Saville being a good fund raiser.

DP then goes on to say he doesn't think MJ did anything untoward with the children and he thinks it's all innocent and because he had a "childlike mind" due to not having a proper childhood.

I said that was no excuse and plenty of people have bad or unusual childhoods and don't groom children.

He was getting defensive and talking about how he was found not guilty in court, to which I pointed out how few rape and sexual abuse cases even make it to court let alone conviction.

I asked whether he'd listened to anything the men on Leaving Neverland said before he formed his opinion that MJ wasn't guilty of anything. He said no, and refused to look it up.

It descended into a row and I was very hurt by some of the things he said, as I have a history of child sexual abuse and rape - which he knows all about.

I asked him whether he would have gladly left our DS in the company of someone like MJ unsupervised and he took a while to answer before saying "I don't know"

I said how that concerned me from a safeguarding perspective to which he took huge offence, started shouting and told me to return all of the presents i'd bought him as he doesnt want them anymore, the immature dickhead.

Now we're not talking.

Was I being unreasonable here?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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ForTonightGodisaDJ · 16/12/2023 21:55

No-one is actually above the law, there are plenty of celebrities who have been jailed before. I've never heard about the showering thing before - do you have a source for that? Don't know about the Leaving Neverland thing but what I will say is that the accusers' partners laughed/smiled throughout the entire documentary I found it really bizarre.

Tourmalines · 16/12/2023 21:56

LeaveBritneyAlone · 16/12/2023 21:33

Or tell us if you believe him when he said he had no plastic surgery. A man who, at the time of saying that, looked like this. Do you think he was telling the truth?

Hmmmmm , I think he’s telling a really big fib there . But , let’s
face it, he was good at that.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 16/12/2023 21:57

ForTonightGodisaDJ · 16/12/2023 21:55

No-one is actually above the law, there are plenty of celebrities who have been jailed before. I've never heard about the showering thing before - do you have a source for that? Don't know about the Leaving Neverland thing but what I will say is that the accusers' partners laughed/smiled throughout the entire documentary I found it really bizarre.

Probably because the questions they were being asked were around meeting their partners, having kids etc. also nervous laughter is a thing. I think when juxtaposed with very graphic descriptions of child abuse, it can seem odd but in isolation it’s fine

Delightfuldays · 16/12/2023 21:59

PrinceHaz · 07/12/2023 13:26

If you’ve watched Neverland, it leaves you feeling in little doubt. Those young men were destroyed.

I agree. The men came across very plausible.

Firefly1987 · 16/12/2023 22:02

No it’s not - but sexually abusing boys in a bed is. Which is what at least 4 children said he did. 2 went to the police. If it was Asda Dave being accused by 4 little boys what would you think?

It was a train station not a bed remember...I would say Asda Dave deserves to face his accusers in a court of law and let a jury decide after they've heard all the evidence. Same for Michael Jackson. Unfortunately for you they found him not guilty so now none of us will ever know the truth. You really need to drop this Asda Dave thing, the glaringly obviously thing is a bloke who works minimum wage is not at risk of getting blackmailed for millions of $ which is kind of an important distinction. Plus like I already said, he wouldn't have fans desperate to get close to him. And yes Michael absolutely should've kept his distance, he shouldn't have put himself or others in that situation, no arguments there.

Of course he did! We all saw the revolving door of boys! Robson didn’t have a Neverland wedding. And “stabbing in the back” - what? They were kids! Certainly didn’t put the nonce off taking in more children

Wade was not a child when he accused Michael-I'm just pointing out he had a motive for it in later years. He was pissed he didn't get the Cirque Du Soleil show and was having money problems. Kids don't have motives-MJ knew that. Parents do though, hence Jordy's father and Gavin's mother. And yes like @Tourniquet81 said, he probably should've stayed completely ALONE instead of spending his time with kids once he realised there are very few adults you can trust when you're rich and famous.

Let me ask this then - why do you think he befriended only little boys in the first place? Why did he walk around holding their hands while they dressed like him? How can you justify that?

Is there something wrong with dressing like him now? Surely lots of kids who didn't know him dressed like him? I do not know that he only befriended boys because I haven't gone through his entire life with a fine tooth comb.

Actually yes. But I didn’t make friends with weird grown men who’d been accused of CSA numerous times. Nor do I now, as an almost 40yo, keep children as little friends. Do you?

I didn't stay friends with everyone from my childhood, people grow apart...no I do not have children as friends but then I had a childhood, I have no idea what affect it has on a person to feel like you missed out on one. I wonder if it was a woman doing the same as MJ if the response would be different?!

Wade Robson was sexually abused by Jackson. He ‘turned on him’ because of that.

About 30 years later once he had money problems...

I actually can’t believe apologists are ignoring the glaringly obvious evidence of the world’s most prolific pedophile, the MANY allegations, compelling stories and shocking behaviour - and have decided he’s innocent because <checks notes> his accuser blinks slowly.

Please I beg you never ever go within 50 metres of a child - you aren’t a safe person for them to be around

Here we go with the "safety concerns" just because we are not 100% sure of his guilt-neither were a jury apparently, and they heard all the evidence. Do you call them "apologists" as well? Jeez...

And yes I know that was before Wade and James' allegations but I'm sure they soon would've been debunked when it was realised the train station didn't even exist back then for one. A movie designed to pull at your heart strings and evoke shock and disgust does not evidence make.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 16/12/2023 22:50

Firefly1987 · 16/12/2023 22:02

No it’s not - but sexually abusing boys in a bed is. Which is what at least 4 children said he did. 2 went to the police. If it was Asda Dave being accused by 4 little boys what would you think?

It was a train station not a bed remember...I would say Asda Dave deserves to face his accusers in a court of law and let a jury decide after they've heard all the evidence. Same for Michael Jackson. Unfortunately for you they found him not guilty so now none of us will ever know the truth. You really need to drop this Asda Dave thing, the glaringly obviously thing is a bloke who works minimum wage is not at risk of getting blackmailed for millions of $ which is kind of an important distinction. Plus like I already said, he wouldn't have fans desperate to get close to him. And yes Michael absolutely should've kept his distance, he shouldn't have put himself or others in that situation, no arguments there.

Of course he did! We all saw the revolving door of boys! Robson didn’t have a Neverland wedding. And “stabbing in the back” - what? They were kids! Certainly didn’t put the nonce off taking in more children

Wade was not a child when he accused Michael-I'm just pointing out he had a motive for it in later years. He was pissed he didn't get the Cirque Du Soleil show and was having money problems. Kids don't have motives-MJ knew that. Parents do though, hence Jordy's father and Gavin's mother. And yes like @Tourniquet81 said, he probably should've stayed completely ALONE instead of spending his time with kids once he realised there are very few adults you can trust when you're rich and famous.

Let me ask this then - why do you think he befriended only little boys in the first place? Why did he walk around holding their hands while they dressed like him? How can you justify that?

Is there something wrong with dressing like him now? Surely lots of kids who didn't know him dressed like him? I do not know that he only befriended boys because I haven't gone through his entire life with a fine tooth comb.

Actually yes. But I didn’t make friends with weird grown men who’d been accused of CSA numerous times. Nor do I now, as an almost 40yo, keep children as little friends. Do you?

I didn't stay friends with everyone from my childhood, people grow apart...no I do not have children as friends but then I had a childhood, I have no idea what affect it has on a person to feel like you missed out on one. I wonder if it was a woman doing the same as MJ if the response would be different?!

Wade Robson was sexually abused by Jackson. He ‘turned on him’ because of that.

About 30 years later once he had money problems...

I actually can’t believe apologists are ignoring the glaringly obvious evidence of the world’s most prolific pedophile, the MANY allegations, compelling stories and shocking behaviour - and have decided he’s innocent because <checks notes> his accuser blinks slowly.

Please I beg you never ever go within 50 metres of a child - you aren’t a safe person for them to be around

Here we go with the "safety concerns" just because we are not 100% sure of his guilt-neither were a jury apparently, and they heard all the evidence. Do you call them "apologists" as well? Jeez...

And yes I know that was before Wade and James' allegations but I'm sure they soon would've been debunked when it was realised the train station didn't even exist back then for one. A movie designed to pull at your heart strings and evoke shock and disgust does not evidence make.

It was a train station not a bed remember...

Do you not feel really gross making sneery facetious comments about little boys being raped? I would

I would say Asda Dave deserves to face his accusers in a court of law and let a jury decide after they've heard all the evidence. Same for Michael Jackson.

Sure. I mean in a day and where convictions are as low as 1% it would be very foolish to only ever draw a conclusion based on a conviction.

I mean just admit you ABSOLUTELY would think Asda Dave was guilty.

You really need to drop this Asda Dave thing, the glaringly obviously thing is a bloke who works minimum wage is not at risk of getting blackmailed for millions of $ which is kind of an important distinction.

Except it isn’t because out of the 8 allegation only one child was financially compensated in lieu of a criminal trial and no doubt that money was needed to forge a new life and identity because nonce lovers terrorised an abused child.

Dont you think it’s a bit weird that out of ALL the rich celebs only Jackson ever had these child crooks make hours and hours of carefully curated lies to police, filmmakers and journalists, with very convincing and compelling stories , involving their families - in the vain hope they’d make money? That’s so weird only Jackson had that happen to him isn’t it.

Wade was not a child when he accused Michael-I'm just pointing out he had a motive for it in later years. He was pissed he didn't get the Cirque Du Soleil show and was having money problems.

He was a child when he was sexually abused and it looks a bit like victim blaming to criticise him for coming forward as a adult.

The whole Cirque du Soliel schtick is toning more than desperation by Jackson’s camp to vilify a victim. There’s no evidence at all about it - besides Wade Robson had a MASSIVE career in music and dance. Partly because the sexual abuse of Jackson but mostly because he’s an exceptionally gifted dancer.

Source to Wade Robson having money problems?

Kids don't have motives-MJ knew that. Parents do though, hence Jordy's father and Gavin's mother.

Yea their motive is justice for him raping their sons.

And yes like @Tourniquet81 said, he probably should've stayed completely ALONE instead of spending his time with kids once he realised there are very few adults you can trust when you're rich and famous.

Well when you’re a pedoohile it’s probably better to avoid adults who can see right through you.

Is there something wrong with dressing like him now? Surely lots of kids who didn't know him dressed like him?

In the context of them being adoring fans who hold his hand like a lover and share his bed - yes. That’s the very definition of a power imbalance. Why do you think there shouldn’t be close relationships when there’s a power imbalance? It shows their adoration - which made them prime candidates for the nonce to groom them.

no I do not have children as friends but then I had a childhood

So did Jackson. He wasn’t born an 18yo man. He just didn’t have a conventional childhood. But he did have one. Why don’t other child stars behave like absolutely inappropriate freaks towards children? Why did the other Jackson 4 never behave like this?

if it was a woman doing the same as MJ if the response would be different?!

Irrlevant - it wasn’t. Jackson was a pedophile.

About 30 years later once he had money problems...

Source.

Robson isn’t very clever because he wasn’t paid for any of his appearances around LN.

Here we go with the "safety concerns" just because we are not 100% sure of his guilt-neither were a jury apparently, and they heard all the evidence. Do you call them "apologists" as well? Jeez...

A jury can be made up of stupid people, super fans and apologists so possibly - but it’s quite possible for a jury to state they thought he was guilty but they can’t deliver a verdict due to ‘reasonable doubt’. Indeed one jury member publicly stated Jackson clear has molested boys.

Laos not guilty does not mean innocent. HTH. Do you understand how low conviction rates are?

As an aside I really also hope you don’t have kids either - nobody with a shocking lack of safeguarding who sneers a CSA victims should go within 50 metres of a child.

And yes I know that was before Wade and James' allegations but I'm sure they soon would've been debunked when it was realised the train station didn't even exist

Oh fucking hell the train staying shite again. Plenty of evidence to say it existed. Also / it wasn’t the only allegation, there are hours of footage of them describing years of abuse. How kept dying for you that you think it’s been dEbuNkeD

A movie designed to pull at your heart strings and evoke shock and disgust does not evidence make.

Victim testimony IS evidence. HTH.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 16/12/2023 23:13

I’ve actually got Leaving a Neverland on in the background. There’s a part that involved Wade Robson’s brother, sister, SIL and wife. They talk about how they were hanging out one day with the kids at a food truck and Wade disclosed the sexual abuse after his brother tells him “My wife had a dream last night you told us Michael Jackson abused you”. It’s very moving.

Now those saying Robson is a liar - you’re telling me he got his brother, SIL sister and wife together, convinced them to lie for NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER TO THEM, concocted this elaborate lie and story, and then all cried on camera about it, not tripping up or getting it wrong.

Is that likely or actually was Jackson The World’s Most Obvious Pedophile actually a great big fucking pedophile? What do we think people? What’s the most likely scenario folks.

Mind you some nonce lover will probably be along soon to say that this is debunked because no food trucks in LA existed between 1999 and 2027, the Reddit ‘Wankers for Jackson’ thread told them so

Firefly1987 · 17/12/2023 00:44

I mean just admit you ABSOLUTELY would think Asda Dave was guilty.

I probably would think Dave was guilty because I don't suppose there would be any money to be made out of accusing him if it wasn't true. Don't know how many times you wanna go over the same thing. Money is a very powerful motivator I'm not sure why you are ignoring this?

He was a child when he was sexually abused and it looks a bit like victim blaming to criticise him for coming forward as a adult.

Everything is victim blaming in your book.

So did Jackson. He wasn’t born an 18yo man. He just didn’t have a conventional childhood. But he did have one. Why don’t other child stars behave like absolutely inappropriate freaks towards children? Why did the other Jackson 4 never behave like this?

Claims to care so much about children yet completely dismisses Michael's experiences as a child which included physical abuse so bad at the hands of his father that he would faint and throw up in terror. I can just imagine an adult coming to you saying something similar about working non-stop as a child and you saying "you weren't born at 18 so shut up" whilst simultaneously fawning all over Wade and James. You couldn't make it up. Wade is allowed to talk about his childhood, Michael isn't-I guess you think physical abuse isn't so bad? Abuse so bad his mother would yell "stop it Joe you're gonna kill him!" should YOU be around children?

Irrlevant - it wasn’t. Jackson was a pedophile.

Well that's very telling isn't it...

but it’s quite possible for a jury to state they thought he was guilty but they can’t deliver a verdict due to ‘reasonable doubt’.

Well that's exactly how I feel, it's a high bar for me to declare someone something as disgusting as a paedophile. Obviously not for you but I really think you should keep your "safe guarding" and "ooh hope you don't have children" bollocks to yourself. See this is why people think you and OP are being so ridiculous. None of us know the people involved and one of them is long dead. Apparently I'm an apologist for not being 100% on his guilt yet the boys own parents who were responsible for them were completely innocent and "groomed" ok then...

Well when you’re a pedoohile it’s probably better to avoid adults who can see right through you.

Thought it was super easy for him to groom people and pull the wool over their eyes about what he was supposedly doing...

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 02:05

😂😂😂 This is hilarious. Ignore allllll that is written that debunks everything you have said and accurately explains why and then respond with…..that 😂😂😂😭

You’ve had enough internet for today poppet. Go sit down 👍🏼

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 02:09

Not to mention the fact in leaving neverland they tell the polar opposite version of events to what they told in their own legal filings and depositions that were running at the exact same time 😂😂😂

Which version are we supposed to be believing exactly 🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 02:12

😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂 pathetic. Not a single word or scrap of knowledge to counter any of the facts listed. Just playground insults and word salad.

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 02:20

He didn’t invite boys for sleepovers.

Im gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend this is true.

So what - he still allowed little boys in his bed. Because he was a nonce. Do you think he had no day in this and was forced to share a bed with little boys? If so by who?

No need to give the benefit of doubt. We already have this information from the tons of people actually there. I choose to listen to them over some numpty on this open sewer soacial media site and those that invent multiple versions of their tales while asking for money to go away. Silently under seal originally.

The people there were all family friends and he was never alone with them after the first allegations.

Wrong about the last part but the first part is exactly the problem - he made friends with little boys. What kind of safe grown man does that?

Not according to the people there. You’re wrong again. Go read the depositions.

Why is everybody conveniently leaving out the fact that men, woman, boys, girls and staff including their families as well were at these things too.

Because he didn’t rape those people

Rape was never an accusation - You’re inventing abuse 🤮🤮🤮🤮
You genuinely think he managed to ‘rape’ these men in financial difficulty with all these other people present? Brilliant. Your lack of intelligence is stunning 😂😂

Painting a false narrative isn’t helping real potential victims.

Agree. Poor Jackson’s victims I hope they don’t read this fucking abomination of a thread

If you claim kidnappings in hot air balloons, abuse in multiple buildings six years before they’re constructed, at events we now know he didn’t attend, in continents we now he hadn’t travelled to and change your story 12 times you’re not a victim. You’re lying pricks.
The mental gymnastics you’re going through to believe these guys is hilarious.

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 02:23

What is the web address you went to do request this information that you have managed to go through so quickly.

post it and i can highlight them for you with a key

ALargeChardonnayPlease · 17/12/2023 02:29

I was interested in the results of this one and I'm not surprised it's 50:50. I can see both sides of the argument, but personally believe you can separate the art from the artist. The music he made has touched millions of people around the world. For me, music transcends and is almost like a separate entity

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 03:11

There's no set number. Just has to be stories that don't fall apart with the most basic of fact checking and that keep changing whenever they're pulled up on things.

Who changed what exactly?

Robson and Safechuck are currently on version 12 of events. Leaving Neverland was version 9. The Arvizo’s changed their entire time line and story when it was discovered that Jackson wasn’t even in the country during the dates they first chose.

And if your bottom line is to get a traumatised adult to perfectly recount dates, times and facts right every time, then you literally believe all CSA victims are liars.

No, not at all. Just don’t invent buildings and spend 4 hours making a detailed film telling us this is why you must believe us when it then all falls apart within 3 weeks with the most basic of fact checking.

It doesn't happen with anybody else, why Jackson. Could it because over 10 years of trying for what they thought would be a quick pay off they have now got tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees on top of the mess they were already in when they started it?

Or…because it’s true and he’s a nonce?

Can you explain how he managed to molest these kids in multiple buildings 6 years before they were constructed, at events we now know he didn’t attend and in continents we now know he hadn’t travelled to all as claimed as your starter for 10. To be a nonce he needs to be a time traveller which is why none of the courts have believed them so far.

Leaving Neverland is a film, it's in no way a documentary

What? Of course it’s a documentary.

Not according to Frontline’s Best Practices model which Harvard’s Journalist Resources state as the bible structure of documentary making within the industry.

as it is supposed to be and has been marketed as because it fails at every single step of the guidelines for accepted documentary making.

Such as?

For example:

1) In the very first section under FAIRNESS, the Frontline guidelines state:

“Since publication of truthful accurate information is the prime mission of our programmes it should be clear that wilful misrepresentation or falsification of programme content will be considered unprofessional conduct and will carry the most severe consequences”

Reed continuously misrepresented content in LN such as the deceptive editing of the Geragos statement, misrepresenting how MJ actually started the relationship with Safechuck, misrepresenting the fax machine scene with Joy Robson, misrepresenting why the Robson’s came to the US, misrepresenting the final scene with Robson burning MJ memorabilia, presenting Francia’s claim of eye witnessing accounts without presenting her credibility issues. Because of all his misleading content, Reed fails at the very first guideline of fairness

2) The guidelines say to give individuals who are the subjects of attack the opportunity to respond to those attacks.

In the film Wade implicates those that are working in the recording studio, those working at Neverland and others working around MJ as enablers of abuse, but Reed never reaches out to any of them to get their side of the story and instead was content to portray them as Robson described them. Another failure in documentary making.

3) Fairness means that producers will approach all stories with an open, sceptical mind and a determination through extensive research to acquaint themselves with a wide range of viewpoints”.

Reed did not do this because according to his own interviews the only people he spoke with were Police and Prosecutors involved who we know from the 2005 trial were biased and seeking only confirmatory guilty evidence. He also kept the project secret from the family and the Estate so his movie could drop like a bomb without any prior counter arguing to diminish its impact. Reed didn’t interview anyone that knows the factual evidence or defends MJ such as Meserau, Charles Thompson or estate lawyers and he doesn’t interview anyone that could give an intimate but different description of Robson such as Brandi.

Out of the 4hrs there is only about 28 minutes of actual interviews.

Source? Because I have it on now I’m 90 minutes in and they’ve all been talking constantly.

If you’re gonna lie make it a good one.

The rest is all drone shots and recycled footage which is probably why it was pulled apart so quickly

Or because that’s a typical method to break up dialogue with something visual to feast on. Very normal in documentary making?

Or in reality they didn’t have as much contact with MJ as they need to make out for the stories to work. We know this from their own words in previous statements, depositions and interviews where for example Joy Robson says they only went to the ranch 14 times - 4 when MJ was present.

There should not be drafts of interviews of your own abuse

What do you mean? Why wouldn’t the victims prepare what they gonna say?

In emails they were forced to hand over to the courts before another loss it was discovered that Joy said there were many versions he could use that they had pieced together from his own father’s actual abuse so you’re probably right. They need to know which version they’re going with.

you shouldn't need prompting to change your wording when telling your story from behind the camera.

Can you be more specific? I’ve seen nothing like this. Conspiracy theorist shite from thick fuck Jackson fans more like

You can hear Reed prompt them to change words when they speak to fall in line with the narrative. Not a biggie on it’s own admittedly but combined with the other mountain of issues it’s something else to add to the pile. Name calling gets you nowhere pumpkin, just shows you’re all out of counter points.

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 03:16

The source is June’s own testimony from her own mouth during the trial in 2005. The entire transcripts are available. I think it was around day 28 she was there.

Who’s June? are you serious. You claim to know everything but don’t know the names of the main players in the whole Saga! Wow!
June is June Chandler. The ex-wife of the first extorter.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 17/12/2023 09:16

Firefly1987 · 17/12/2023 00:44

I mean just admit you ABSOLUTELY would think Asda Dave was guilty.

I probably would think Dave was guilty because I don't suppose there would be any money to be made out of accusing him if it wasn't true. Don't know how many times you wanna go over the same thing. Money is a very powerful motivator I'm not sure why you are ignoring this?

He was a child when he was sexually abused and it looks a bit like victim blaming to criticise him for coming forward as a adult.

Everything is victim blaming in your book.

So did Jackson. He wasn’t born an 18yo man. He just didn’t have a conventional childhood. But he did have one. Why don’t other child stars behave like absolutely inappropriate freaks towards children? Why did the other Jackson 4 never behave like this?

Claims to care so much about children yet completely dismisses Michael's experiences as a child which included physical abuse so bad at the hands of his father that he would faint and throw up in terror. I can just imagine an adult coming to you saying something similar about working non-stop as a child and you saying "you weren't born at 18 so shut up" whilst simultaneously fawning all over Wade and James. You couldn't make it up. Wade is allowed to talk about his childhood, Michael isn't-I guess you think physical abuse isn't so bad? Abuse so bad his mother would yell "stop it Joe you're gonna kill him!" should YOU be around children?

Irrlevant - it wasn’t. Jackson was a pedophile.

Well that's very telling isn't it...

but it’s quite possible for a jury to state they thought he was guilty but they can’t deliver a verdict due to ‘reasonable doubt’.

Well that's exactly how I feel, it's a high bar for me to declare someone something as disgusting as a paedophile. Obviously not for you but I really think you should keep your "safe guarding" and "ooh hope you don't have children" bollocks to yourself. See this is why people think you and OP are being so ridiculous. None of us know the people involved and one of them is long dead. Apparently I'm an apologist for not being 100% on his guilt yet the boys own parents who were responsible for them were completely innocent and "groomed" ok then...

Well when you’re a pedoohile it’s probably better to avoid adults who can see right through you.

Thought it was super easy for him to groom people and pull the wool over their eyes about what he was supposedly doing...

I probably would think Dave was guilty because I don't suppose there would be any money to be made out of accusing him if it wasn't true. Don't know how many times you wanna go over the same thing. Money is a very powerful motivator I'm not sure why you are ignoring this?

Right so only poor people can be child abusers. If rich people are accused it’s because the accuser wants money. I mean the fact that on many countries (including the UK) you cannot sue in lieu of a criminal conviction doesn’t matter. Rich people can’t be abusers. Children accusing rich people are liars. Including Saville’s accusers presumably? Thanks for that.

Claims to care so much about children yet completely dismisses Michael's experiences as a child which included physical abuse so bad at the hands of his father that he would faint and throw up in terror. I can just imagine an adult coming to you saying something similar about working non-stop as a child and you saying "you weren't born at 18 so shut up" whilst simultaneously fawning all over Wade and James. You couldn't make it up. Wade is allowed to talk about his childhood, Michael isn't-I guess you think physical abuse isn't so bad? Abuse so bad his mother would yell "stop it Joe you're gonna kill him!" should YOU be around children?

This thread isn’t about Jackson’s childhood. It’s about his victims. And I admire your attempt to make ME look like the concern but I don’t believe I’ve ever said anything about physical abuse not mattering? Stop making things up, it’s extremely embarrasing.

But seeing as you ask if a man came and said “I was physically abused as a child and this is why I have inappropriate and abusive relationships with little boys” I wouldn’t yawn I’d call the police.

As an aside I couldn’t give a fuck about Jackson’s childhood. I have no sympathy for pedophiles and their excuses for tuning children’s lives.

It’s quite amusing that your ‘evidence’ for Jackson being beaten is words from Jackson himself - a proven liar. Even YOU must concede he lied about not having plastic surgery? So why should we believe him about this?

To add - by YOUR standards Joseph Jackson is innocent. He’s never been convicted in a court of law after all, it’s just hearsay. He’s also rich so probably just after his money. You couldn’t possibly believe the accusations, right? YOUR standards BTW, not mine.

Well that's very telling isn't it...

No. show me a woman who behaved like pedophile Jackson

it's a high bar for me to declare someone something as disgusting as a paedophile.

Fuck me it must be a REALLY high bar if the following isn’t enough:

  • 8 accusations
  • 2 arrests with one charge
  • Compelling stories back with evidence
  • Sleeps with little boys
  • Only had friends who were little boys who he ditched in their adolescence
  • Having little boys sit on his crotch in public
  • Prornographic books of naked little boys
What the hell is a ‘high bar’ to you?!

But somehow you believe a man was physically abusive based on one renowned liar’s words.

Just admit you don’t WANT to believe your creepy little hero can be an abuser.

Obviously not for you but I really think you should keep your "safe guarding" and "ooh hope you don't have children" bollocks to yourself.

No because I’m right - you are unfit to be around kids.

Apparently I'm an apologist for not being 100% on his guilt yet the boys own parents who were responsible for them were completely innocent and "groomed" ok then...

Ive already said earlier my thoughts on the parents

Thought it was super easy for him to groom people and pull the wool over their eyes about what he was supposedly doing...

Stupid money grabbing parents yes - but Jordy and Gavin’s parents thankfully were switched on as we’re the parents of many children who cut off relationships with the pedophile

LeaveBritneyAlone · 17/12/2023 09:17

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 02:05

😂😂😂 This is hilarious. Ignore allllll that is written that debunks everything you have said and accurately explains why and then respond with…..that 😂😂😂😭

You’ve had enough internet for today poppet. Go sit down 👍🏼

All that is written 😂 what random bollocks from you? You haven’t posted ONE source let alone a credible one, despite being asked many times. FYI - “mjisinnocent.com” and the like is not a credible source

LeaveBritneyAlone · 17/12/2023 09:18

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LeaveBritneyAlone · 17/12/2023 09:19

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LeaveBritneyAlone · 17/12/2023 09:27

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 02:20

He didn’t invite boys for sleepovers.

Im gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend this is true.

So what - he still allowed little boys in his bed. Because he was a nonce. Do you think he had no day in this and was forced to share a bed with little boys? If so by who?

No need to give the benefit of doubt. We already have this information from the tons of people actually there. I choose to listen to them over some numpty on this open sewer soacial media site and those that invent multiple versions of their tales while asking for money to go away. Silently under seal originally.

The people there were all family friends and he was never alone with them after the first allegations.

Wrong about the last part but the first part is exactly the problem - he made friends with little boys. What kind of safe grown man does that?

Not according to the people there. You’re wrong again. Go read the depositions.

Why is everybody conveniently leaving out the fact that men, woman, boys, girls and staff including their families as well were at these things too.

Because he didn’t rape those people

Rape was never an accusation - You’re inventing abuse 🤮🤮🤮🤮
You genuinely think he managed to ‘rape’ these men in financial difficulty with all these other people present? Brilliant. Your lack of intelligence is stunning 😂😂

Painting a false narrative isn’t helping real potential victims.

Agree. Poor Jackson’s victims I hope they don’t read this fucking abomination of a thread

If you claim kidnappings in hot air balloons, abuse in multiple buildings six years before they’re constructed, at events we now know he didn’t attend, in continents we now he hadn’t travelled to and change your story 12 times you’re not a victim. You’re lying pricks.
The mental gymnastics you’re going through to believe these guys is hilarious.

No need to give the benefit of doubt. We already have this information from the tons of people actually there. I choose to listen to them over some numpty on this open sewer soacial media site and those that invent multiple versions of their tales while asking for money to go away. Silently under seal originally.

I choose to listen to victims.

You are saying - despite evidence of boys, victims and MJ himself - that boys never slept over?

Bit weird to dent this when even the nonce admits he did it.

Not according to the people there. You’re wrong again. Go read the depositions.

Now you’re denying that he never made friends with little boys? What? We SAW his creepy parade of little boys! Constantly in the 80’s 90’s and 00’s. Why did he have Jordan Chandler sit on his crotch at a concert? Was it a mirage?

PS you are mistaken in thinking those who gave deposition are the only ones with relevant voices. Do you understand how the US court system works? Also depositions are just words. And whose deposition is so compelling that it cancels out all the boys he paraded around as his little pals, prepped for abuse?

Rape was never an accusation - You’re inventing abuse 🤮🤮🤮🤮

Please educate yourself before posting shite. Rape of children includes any penetration of them

You genuinely think he managed to ‘rape’ these men in financial difficulty with all these other people present? Brilliant. Your lack of intelligence is stunning 😂😂

No he raped them when he had them alone on many occasions. Who do you think was supervising while they slept in his bed? A bodyguard? Give us a name.

MY lack of intelligence - HA! You are pretending your hero isn’t the biggest fucking nonce ever when it’s clear he is!

If you claim kidnappings in hot air balloons, abuse in multiple buildings six years before they’re constructed, at events we now know he didn’t attend, in continents we now he hadn’t travelled to and change your story 12 times you’re not a victim. You’re lying pricks.
The mental gymnastics you’re going through to believe these guys is hilarious.

You are gross calling CSA victims lying pricks. Absolutely revolting.

Ive asked a few times for you to post evidence about a hot air balloon and the ‘continents he never went to’ etc. Which confinements? you haven’t posted a single source. The train station WAS built and people have posted evidence. Either you or the other apologists said something about the Grammy’s / yet I can access YT videos showing he was there.

LeaveBritneyAlone · 17/12/2023 09:29

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LeaveBritneyAlone · 17/12/2023 09:44

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 03:11

There's no set number. Just has to be stories that don't fall apart with the most basic of fact checking and that keep changing whenever they're pulled up on things.

Who changed what exactly?

Robson and Safechuck are currently on version 12 of events. Leaving Neverland was version 9. The Arvizo’s changed their entire time line and story when it was discovered that Jackson wasn’t even in the country during the dates they first chose.

And if your bottom line is to get a traumatised adult to perfectly recount dates, times and facts right every time, then you literally believe all CSA victims are liars.

No, not at all. Just don’t invent buildings and spend 4 hours making a detailed film telling us this is why you must believe us when it then all falls apart within 3 weeks with the most basic of fact checking.

It doesn't happen with anybody else, why Jackson. Could it because over 10 years of trying for what they thought would be a quick pay off they have now got tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees on top of the mess they were already in when they started it?

Or…because it’s true and he’s a nonce?

Can you explain how he managed to molest these kids in multiple buildings 6 years before they were constructed, at events we now know he didn’t attend and in continents we now know he hadn’t travelled to all as claimed as your starter for 10. To be a nonce he needs to be a time traveller which is why none of the courts have believed them so far.

Leaving Neverland is a film, it's in no way a documentary

What? Of course it’s a documentary.

Not according to Frontline’s Best Practices model which Harvard’s Journalist Resources state as the bible structure of documentary making within the industry.

as it is supposed to be and has been marketed as because it fails at every single step of the guidelines for accepted documentary making.

Such as?

For example:

1) In the very first section under FAIRNESS, the Frontline guidelines state:

“Since publication of truthful accurate information is the prime mission of our programmes it should be clear that wilful misrepresentation or falsification of programme content will be considered unprofessional conduct and will carry the most severe consequences”

Reed continuously misrepresented content in LN such as the deceptive editing of the Geragos statement, misrepresenting how MJ actually started the relationship with Safechuck, misrepresenting the fax machine scene with Joy Robson, misrepresenting why the Robson’s came to the US, misrepresenting the final scene with Robson burning MJ memorabilia, presenting Francia’s claim of eye witnessing accounts without presenting her credibility issues. Because of all his misleading content, Reed fails at the very first guideline of fairness

2) The guidelines say to give individuals who are the subjects of attack the opportunity to respond to those attacks.

In the film Wade implicates those that are working in the recording studio, those working at Neverland and others working around MJ as enablers of abuse, but Reed never reaches out to any of them to get their side of the story and instead was content to portray them as Robson described them. Another failure in documentary making.

3) Fairness means that producers will approach all stories with an open, sceptical mind and a determination through extensive research to acquaint themselves with a wide range of viewpoints”.

Reed did not do this because according to his own interviews the only people he spoke with were Police and Prosecutors involved who we know from the 2005 trial were biased and seeking only confirmatory guilty evidence. He also kept the project secret from the family and the Estate so his movie could drop like a bomb without any prior counter arguing to diminish its impact. Reed didn’t interview anyone that knows the factual evidence or defends MJ such as Meserau, Charles Thompson or estate lawyers and he doesn’t interview anyone that could give an intimate but different description of Robson such as Brandi.

Out of the 4hrs there is only about 28 minutes of actual interviews.

Source? Because I have it on now I’m 90 minutes in and they’ve all been talking constantly.

If you’re gonna lie make it a good one.

The rest is all drone shots and recycled footage which is probably why it was pulled apart so quickly

Or because that’s a typical method to break up dialogue with something visual to feast on. Very normal in documentary making?

Or in reality they didn’t have as much contact with MJ as they need to make out for the stories to work. We know this from their own words in previous statements, depositions and interviews where for example Joy Robson says they only went to the ranch 14 times - 4 when MJ was present.

There should not be drafts of interviews of your own abuse

What do you mean? Why wouldn’t the victims prepare what they gonna say?

In emails they were forced to hand over to the courts before another loss it was discovered that Joy said there were many versions he could use that they had pieced together from his own father’s actual abuse so you’re probably right. They need to know which version they’re going with.

you shouldn't need prompting to change your wording when telling your story from behind the camera.

Can you be more specific? I’ve seen nothing like this. Conspiracy theorist shite from thick fuck Jackson fans more like

You can hear Reed prompt them to change words when they speak to fall in line with the narrative. Not a biggie on it’s own admittedly but combined with the other mountain of issues it’s something else to add to the pile. Name calling gets you nowhere pumpkin, just shows you’re all out of counter points.

Robson and Safechuck are currently on version 12 of events. Leaving Neverland was version 9. The Arvizo’s changed their entire time line and story when it was discovered that Jackson wasn’t even in the country during the dates they first chose.

Oh bless you you’re confused. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt over this whole ‘9 out of 12 thing’ (though a source would be good). It’s called a draft. Do you understand what that is?

Explain about Wrvizo’s changing their timeline please.

No, not at all. Just don’t invent buildings and spend 4 hours making a detailed film telling us this is why you must believe us when it then all falls apart within 3 weeks with the most basic of fact checking.

Examples? How can you ‘take apart’ the verbal testimony of every instance of a child’s abuse? I’d love to know. Go on, every single story - show me how you, person with an IQ of about 52, have taken it apart

Can you explain how he managed to molest these kids in multiple buildings 6 years before they were constructed, at events we now know he didn’t attend and in continents we now know he hadn’t travelled to all as claimed as your starter for 10. To be a nonce he needs to be a time traveller which is why none of the courts have believed them so far.

He didn’t just abuse them in the train station. HTH.you haven’t given examples of ‘continents he never visited’ either.* *

Not according to Frontline’s Best Practices model which Harvard’s Journalist Resources state as the bible structure of documentary making within the industry.

😂😂😂😂
You are funny.
It is truthful and factual. Just because it’s not convenient to YOU and your noncey hero, it doesn’t t mean it isn’t truthful. Either way documentary or film - that’s just semantics. it’s the story of two brave victims and an evil predator. As an aside have you watch a different version? I don’t remember a ‘fax machine scene’ with Joy Robson and I watched it last night.

God you’re so desperate. How does it feel to be the kind of person nonces thrive on? Always some idiot in the wrongs waiting to defend them.

In the film Wade implicates those that are working in the recording studio, those working at Neverland and others working around MJ as enablers of abuse, but Reed never reaches out to any of them to get their side of the story and instead was content to portray them as Robson described them. Another failure in documentary making.

Oh bless. You don’t understand how these things work do you. That’s ok, not everyone has good Brian activity. A documentary is not a court of law. They don’t NEED every person to back up what they’re saying. It’s a documentary of someone’s experience. The same way recently released Lockerbie details people’s experiences. Dan Reed has explicitly stated it’s not a documentary about “is he guilty is he not”. It’s about the stories of his survivors. Do you understand the difference?

*Or in reality they didn’t have as much contact with MJ as they need to make out for the stories to work. We know this from their own words in previous statements, depositions and interviews where for example Joy Robson says they only went to the ranch 14 times - 4 when MJ was present.

Examples?
14 times is a lot.

In emails they were forced to hand over to the courts before another loss it was discovered that Joy said there were many versions he could use that they had pieced together from his own father’s actual abuse so you’re probably right. They need to know which version they’re going with.

What are you referring to? No one has ever been to court over LN? Source??

You can hear Reed prompt them to change words when they speak to fall in line with the narrative. Not a biggie on it’s own admittedly but combined with the other mountain of issues it’s something else to add to the pile. Name calling gets you nowhere pumpkin, just shows you’re all out of counter points.

🤣 it’s called prompting them to give context.

This is my area of expertise BTW. I’ve interviewed countless people, you have to remember the viewer/listener is watching from a place where they need all the context. So when someone for example says “and there was blood” saying “who’s blood?” Is providing context so in a Final Cut you don’t have a clip that makes no senses

LeaveBritneyAlone · 17/12/2023 09:47

Tourniquet81 · 17/12/2023 03:16

The source is June’s own testimony from her own mouth during the trial in 2005. The entire transcripts are available. I think it was around day 28 she was there.

Who’s June? are you serious. You claim to know everything but don’t know the names of the main players in the whole Saga! Wow!
June is June Chandler. The ex-wife of the first extorter.

Well considering I’m not Rain Man I don’t have infallible memories form 20 years ago.

But seeing as you answered - I looked up June Chandler’s testimony. WOW. It really fucking gave me the creeps. I’m amazed you’re using it to try and prove Jackson’s innocence. Did you miss the bit where she said Jackson was crying and trembling begging for her to let Jordan sleep with him? That she eventually relented after previously saying no because he was being so manipulative? I believe every word - numerous people have said he used to weaponise people with tears. Horrible fucking nonce he is.

Seeing as you value court testimony as evidence, you must value hers, right? It must be true - you keep banging on about depositions. June Chandler will have been deposed and said all this. So it must be true!

LeaveBritneyAlone · 17/12/2023 09:50

I’d also advise reading the transcript of June Chabdler’s evidence. Jackson’s lawyer continually tries to stop her from telling key facts about Jackson when it doesn’t go his way - and is usually overruled. Court cases are largely circus and pomp and to say only what happens in court is relevant is utterly ridiculous.

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