Blazing row about Michael Jackson

[PLP432]

I know it sounds ridiculous on the face of it but hear me out.

I was in a shop with DP last night and they were playing Michael Jackson music. I commented that I don't like hearing his music as I can't get past everything he did. Yes, I know he wasn't convicted but he openly admitted to sleeping in bed with random children, showering together and whatever else.

DP said "we have different opinions on that, he's a really good artist" to which I replied something about Rolph Harris being a good artist and Jimmy Saville being a good fund raiser.

DP then goes on to say he doesn't think MJ did anything untoward with the children and he thinks it's all innocent and because he had a "childlike mind" due to not having a proper childhood.

I said that was no excuse and plenty of people have bad or unusual childhoods and don't groom children.

He was getting defensive and talking about how he was found not guilty in court, to which I pointed out how few rape and sexual abuse cases even make it to court let alone conviction.

I asked whether he'd listened to anything the men on Leaving Neverland said before he formed his opinion that MJ wasn't guilty of anything. He said no, and refused to look it up.

It descended into a row and I was very hurt by some of the things he said, as I have a history of child sexual abuse and rape - which he knows all about.

I asked him whether he would have gladly left our DS in the company of someone like MJ unsupervised and he took a while to answer before saying "I don't know"

I said how that concerned me from a safeguarding perspective to which he took huge offence, started shouting and told me to return all of the presents i'd bought him as he doesnt want them anymore, the immature dickhead.

Now we're not talking.

Was I being unreasonable here?

There'd be no money in accusing 'someone who worked in a butcher's' now would there? You are obsessed with this case and sure you are right, so I won't bother engaging with you further. Nobody is making you believe Jackson is innocent or forcing you to listen to his music, so I'm not quite sure what you get out of insisting he was guilty. Give it a rest.

I don’t need to know anyone personally. His many victims have publicly shared their (very, very compelling) stories

Do you know a Saville victim personally? If not I hope you are fighting for his innocence

That poster was wrong. If you look at the document attached, JC is clearly the plaintiff. His father brought another suit himself and the 2 cases were later consolidated into one case. So father and son were working together on the same legal case in 1998. The document refers to JC’s sexual molestation by MJ. Far from it being a story invented by his dad, he’s referencing it himself.

Absolutely @Mirabai isn’t it interesting how no one ever answers ‘would you believe it if it was Dave from Asda’

The cynical part of me thinks some posters think he is a child abuser but his so-called genius absconds him from wrongdoing. I also think some don’t care as long as they can dance to Billie Jean. I also suspect some MJ fan site flagged this thread as the thicko sycophants who’ve never posted before suddenly piled on at once after a fairly good start to the thread.

I left a line of work where I had to be involved in CSA cases. If people think they are kind to child victims on the stand, they are wrong. And that’s in THIS country. The US allows far more freedom to belittle victims. Which is exactly what an expensive defence lawyer will do to win their high profile case.

The cynical part of me thinks some posters think he is a child abuser but his so-called genius absconds him from wrongdoing. I also think some don’t care as long as they can dance to Billie Jean.

Undoubtedly true, and there are some very ethically dubious posters on the thread.

Of course. But Jackson didn’t ‘do nothing’. He sexually abused boys.

Answer the question please about Save from Asda. Would you really think “Yeah seems fine” if Dave started sharing beds with a revolving door of little boys he barely knew?

So because Jackson was rich he can’t be an abuser? Only poor people can be abusers? That’s exactly what these Meg stars rely on - the ability to tell people “they’re just after money”. Funnily enough MJ wasn’t the world’s only rich man. How come no one else was the victim of constant false accusations? Why didn’t Bill Gates ever get accused, or Richard Brandon?

also if someone in the butchers was constantly being accused of molesting little boys - unrelated boys of a certain age he befriended, carted round with him and shared a bed with - and STILL carried on having little boy mates…what would you think?

I’m actually seriously worried for their kids TBH. I hope they don’t have any

Can I just take a moment to tell @PLP432 @Mirabai and @SoreAndTired1 they are absolute legends for brilliant, factual and logical posts in the face of absolute embarrassing numpties on this thread who refuse to answer basic questions like “Font you think it’s weird Jackson had little bit mates all the time”

"He sexually abused boys"

You don't know that though. None of us who aren't Jackson or the boys involved in the allegations know.

I've gone back and forth on this ("he was just childlike" to "hang on, why was he always around boys")...ultimately we don't know and in court nothing illegal could be proven. There will always he that suspicion though.

@LeaveBritneyAlone Very few dc ever get near someone like MJ. You are far better having good antennae because most dc are abused by someone they know well. Really well. I would not bother telling dc about MJ as that scenario is remote. Always be vigilant around your dc. What dc listen to his music? Not many these days.

https://youtube.com/shorts/kAvG7aqOSg0?feature=shared

Someone asked me for a source for the M. Culkin rebuttal of abuse claims

Can we get one thing straight: none of us technically ‘know’ anything about other people. But we use what we have been told, mixed with common sense, evidence and pure gut instinct. No one says “You don’t know Saville was a pedophile” - because we don’t need to know, it’s damn obvious. Same with Jackson. Yet people for some reason won’t accept the obvious when it comes to their weird little hero

I agree with you.
I would also return all his presents and let him wake up to nothing Christmas morning, when he asked about his presents, I'd say you said return them, that would teach the immature prick to grow up.
But my husband knows not to threaten me with things because I will do it and not change my mind.

With respect I don’t need you to tell me, of all the people on this thread, to be vigilant around children. I’m not the safeguarding issue here. But it’s still a valuable lesson about how high status and adored people can be a danger, and to not be dazzled by anyone’s status.

How childlike is it to be a shrewd businessman churning out award winning hits, running businesses, plying children with alcohol and manipulating adults into thinking dodgy activity with children is normal? Having a (fake) high pitched voice doesn’t not make one childlike.

Yes we know MC denies any abuse but do you understand that he does not get to speak for other victims?

Im sure the OP’s abuser didn’t abuse every young girl in his wake and there’d be lots of young girls who he never touched and who would attest to that. Does that mean OP was never abused? No, it doesn’t. Because that’s exactly what you’re suggesting - CSA victims have to listen to this shit all the damn time. The whole “well so and so said he never laid a finger on him” knowing just how easily people use that to accuse victims of being liars. It absolutely has an effect on victims when you do that. Victims mostly stay silent their whole lives, because of people like you thinking this harmless ‘evidence’ (of someone entirely unrelated to victims) have no consequences on the many everyday survivors. It does. Do better. Stop being a pedophile apologist.

@LeaveBritneyAlone And neither is MJ a safeguarding issue or most well known people. It’s irrational. It’s not a lesson most people ever need. It’s very very rare. Makes headlines when it does for obvious reasons. If you take safeguarding seriously you must know this. Why do dc need to know this at all? Why should they be made to fear people? Money and fame doesn’t make someone more likely to abuse. They need to understand how to speak to someone if they are concerned. That’s the important bit.

…you’re saying a man accused of CSA no less than 8 times, who has been charged with CSA before and shares beds with little boys that he had ‘friendships’ with ISN’T a safeguarding issue?!

And YOU school ME on safeguarding 😂 dear me.

Also news flash: perfectly possible to tell children that most abusers are known to their victims and ALSO use Jackson as an example of how people in power can groom children. It might be helpful to tell you that although MJ wasn’t related to his victims, plenty of children know powerful people - celebrities, MPs, religious leaders etc. so actually the message about ‘powerful people can abuse and this is often how they do it’ IS very important. Why on EARTH would you hide that from children? That’s very odd TBH and I’d be extremely suspicious on anyone reluctant to school children on safeguarding issues around the rich and powerful

Money and fame doesn’t make someone more likely to abuse

Actually it’s the very reason many people get away with abuse. It’s absolutely relevant.

Just trying to wrack my brain as to why you wouldn’t want children to be taught about powerful people and abuse. Very odd indeed.

And just to be extra clear as I feel it needs spelling out - in telling children about powerful people can use that power to abuse, you don’t have to say “This is only relevant to deluded creepy pop stars”. It can be relevant to your headteachers, church leader, scout leader etc - all people in positions of power over children.

Also, Jackson the pedophile WAS known to his victims! He spoke to them daily well before abuse started. So that kind of debunks your ridiculous point too

@LeaveBritneyAlone What do you think he can do from the grave? I’d get on with your life and stop worrying about the past. I’ve clearly said it’s important to understand what grooming looks like but if you start saying anyone in authority is a potential groomer, you have issues! It’s clearly ott.

I wouldn't bother engaging with this poster. They are clearly obsessed.

@VanityDiesHard I had come to that conclusion. Common sense has left the building!