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AIBU?

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Original poster

Blazing row about Michael Jackson

644 replies

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 12:44

I know it sounds ridiculous on the face of it but hear me out.

I was in a shop with DP last night and they were playing Michael Jackson music. I commented that I don't like hearing his music as I can't get past everything he did. Yes, I know he wasn't convicted but he openly admitted to sleeping in bed with random children, showering together and whatever else.

DP said "we have different opinions on that, he's a really good artist" to which I replied something about Rolph Harris being a good artist and Jimmy Saville being a good fund raiser.

DP then goes on to say he doesn't think MJ did anything untoward with the children and he thinks it's all innocent and because he had a "childlike mind" due to not having a proper childhood.

I said that was no excuse and plenty of people have bad or unusual childhoods and don't groom children.

He was getting defensive and talking about how he was found not guilty in court, to which I pointed out how few rape and sexual abuse cases even make it to court let alone conviction.

I asked whether he'd listened to anything the men on Leaving Neverland said before he formed his opinion that MJ wasn't guilty of anything. He said no, and refused to look it up.

It descended into a row and I was very hurt by some of the things he said, as I have a history of child sexual abuse and rape - which he knows all about.

I asked him whether he would have gladly left our DS in the company of someone like MJ unsupervised and he took a while to answer before saying "I don't know"

I said how that concerned me from a safeguarding perspective to which he took huge offence, started shouting and told me to return all of the presents i'd bought him as he doesnt want them anymore, the immature dickhead.

Now we're not talking.

Was I being unreasonable here?

OP posts:
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21
CatamaranViper · 07/12/2023 13:19

There are many, many celebrities who have done shocking things in their personal lives.

Mark Wahlberg - racist behaviour and attempted murder
Snoop Dogg - charged with murder
Matthew Broderick - killed someone due to dangerous driving
Tim Allen - drug trafficking
Sid Vicious - accused of murdering his gf
Coco Chanel - named as a Nazi informant
Jack Nicholson - assaulting women
Sean Penn - attacking Madonna

These are just the ones I can think of. Most of these have either left a legacy which hasn't been cancelled or are still in the limelight.
I do understand that what MJ was accused of was horrendous, but if we're going to 'shun' celebrities and their legacy because of what they've been accused of, then you need to apply that to everyone.

Ilovelifeverymuch · 07/12/2023 13:20

salamirose · 07/12/2023 13:01

I would say to leave him but your son might be better off if you don't unfortunately.

Really? That's how frivolous we leave marriages now?

Scruffington · 07/12/2023 13:20

I believe the allegations against Michael Jackson but I'll also still sing along to Beat It or Smooth Criminal if I hear them.

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 07/12/2023 13:21

mollyfolk · 07/12/2023 13:07

I think suggesting you had safeguarding concerns was very hurtful maybe? Do you really ? Or did you take the argument very personally because of your history which is fair enough.

I mean the rest of the argument is just a disagreement- it’s not like he’ll rise from the dead.

It certainly was hurtful. But was it unjustified? After OP´s DP decided to respond with this?

I asked him whether he would have gladly left our DS in the company of someone like MJ unsupervised and he took a while to answer before saying "I don't know"

Sux2buthen · 07/12/2023 13:21

salamirose · 07/12/2023 13:01

I would say to leave him but your son might be better off if you don't unfortunately.

Oh for gods sake, how ridiculous

ASimpleLampoon · 07/12/2023 13:21

PLP432 · 07/12/2023 12:58

It's strange isn't it?

Jimmy Saville was never convicted either but I've never heard anybody bending over backwards to defend him like people do with MJ.

Show quote history

Michael Jackson died in his prime whereas Jimmy Saville was very old, very odd and had not been culturally relevant for some. time. At the time of his death he was considered an odd dirty old man. He had plenty of hangers on but famous people always do.

Seville was only famous in the UK. - people outside the UK didn't really get his popularity and saw him as a weirdo.

MJ was an international star who groomed the world not just the British Establishment

Scruffington · 07/12/2023 13:22

I understand though that with your own history of being a csa victim that the argument with your husband will have felt more personal.

ManateeFair · 07/12/2023 13:22

He was getting defensive and talking about how he was found not guilty in court

He was found not guilty of certain, specific charges in the case that actually went to a criminal trial. He did, however, pay the family of the accuser several million dollars in the subsequent civil case, which doesn't scream innocence to me.

The other accusations against him, by multiple other children, didn't go to court - but neither did the accusations against Jimmy Savile, and yet presumably your partner isn't defending him.

There is a discussion to be had about whether you can separate the art from the artist, and Jackson is far from the only abuser whose work is still played/broadcast everywhere. But by insisting that Jackson must have been innocent, your partner is being a massive twat. Also, given that he knows your own difficult history with sexual abuse, he should absolutely shut the fuck up on this subject. Even if he disagrees with you on Jackson, picking an argument with a survivor of abuse about this topic is pretty despicable. It's absolutely appalling of him to choose this to be the hill he's going to die on.

PrinceHaz · 07/12/2023 13:22

Your dp sounds a bit rubbish, particularly handing back the presents. Sounds like you need to be with someone more mature.

User1789 · 07/12/2023 13:23

People are really weird about Michael Jackson.

I had to drop a mum friend, who was otherwise nice and normal, when she started plastering her Facebook with a bunch of conspiracy-type posts about how all the accusations made against Michael Jackson had been false, and by people looking to make money. Bleugh.

asplashofmilk · 07/12/2023 13:24

I do think people pick and choose though. I love glam rock and the music of Gary Glitter. Will I listen to it while he's alive? Absolutely not. When he's dead? Maybe, I bet lots on here defending listening to mj would be horrified though.

MaidOfSteel · 07/12/2023 13:25

You all but called your husband an unfit parent. Do you really believe that of him? I can imagine that must've hurt.

PrinceHaz · 07/12/2023 13:26

If you’ve watched Neverland, it leaves you feeling in little doubt. Those young men were destroyed.

BiscuitsandPuffin · 07/12/2023 13:26

I think YABU because you're trying to impose "rightthink" on your partner and came here looking for validation on that.

It's really controlling to expect people to have the same opinion as you to the point of expecting them to change their minds due to having talked about it with you and heard your opinion.

The topic is irrelevant.

HardcoreLadyType · 07/12/2023 13:27

It’s such a tricky concept - separating the art from the artist.

I feel the same way as you do about MJ, but as has been pointed out on the thread, there are many artists whose lives do not bear scrutiny.

I don’t know what the answer is.

Perhaps you could apologise to your DH for your crossness, even though you still feel you are right. And just agree to disagree.

NonPlayerCharacter · 07/12/2023 13:27

Some people can separate the art from the artist, some can't.

Roald Dahl was an overt antisemite.

sweeneytoddsrazor · 07/12/2023 13:27

See whilst I think he was guilty, I like the music and when I hear an MJ song it reminds me of great times when I was younger and clubbing and generally enjoying life as a teenager going into adult life before kids rent and responsibilities kicked in. So yes rightly or wrongly I do listen to it

rumred · 07/12/2023 13:28

It's so hard, like ppl said, loads of men have been abusive and we still listen to their music, read their books etc.

I explained it to a friend who said mj was never convicted /was child like by asking would she allow mick Jackson from up the road to look after, sleep with and ply her child with booze? Obviously not. Even if he wasn't convicted and was childlike.

People sometimes just don't think and don't want to believe men they like can be abusers.

CurlewKate · 07/12/2023 13:28

"t's really controlling to expect people to have the same opinion as you"

Not about paedophiles it isn't.

StardustGiraffe · 07/12/2023 13:31

ASimpleLampoon · 07/12/2023 13:21

Michael Jackson died in his prime whereas Jimmy Saville was very old, very odd and had not been culturally relevant for some. time. At the time of his death he was considered an odd dirty old man. He had plenty of hangers on but famous people always do.

Seville was only famous in the UK. - people outside the UK didn't really get his popularity and saw him as a weirdo.

MJ was an international star who groomed the world not just the British Establishment

Show quote history

Also MJ had faced court over this topic in his lifetime as well and was acquitted, which I think makes a difference in public consciousness. Even before he died there was always a divide of opinion over whether he'd done anything or not. That won't change because of Leaving Neverland, which obviously came out after he died when he can no longer deny it.

With Jimmy Saville there is much more of a consensus and it's evident that people always new and covered it up. That hasn't been the case with Michael Jackson, so far at least.

OrbitingTheEarth · 07/12/2023 13:31

I'm the same i get so cross when he comes on the radio i turn him off. They wouldn't play Gary Gliitter would they!

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 07/12/2023 13:32

CatamaranViper · 07/12/2023 13:19

There are many, many celebrities who have done shocking things in their personal lives.

Mark Wahlberg - racist behaviour and attempted murder
Snoop Dogg - charged with murder
Matthew Broderick - killed someone due to dangerous driving
Tim Allen - drug trafficking
Sid Vicious - accused of murdering his gf
Coco Chanel - named as a Nazi informant
Jack Nicholson - assaulting women
Sean Penn - attacking Madonna

These are just the ones I can think of. Most of these have either left a legacy which hasn't been cancelled or are still in the limelight.
I do understand that what MJ was accused of was horrendous, but if we're going to 'shun' celebrities and their legacy because of what they've been accused of, then you need to apply that to everyone.

That is an argument I would take much more seriously IF people were honest and didn´t try to defend MJ´s action (not his music/art). But most people somehow aren´t...

"MJ was found not guilty of certain, specific charges in the case that actually went to a criminal trial. He did, however, pay the family of the accuser several million dollars in the subsequent civil case, which doesn't scream innocence to me. The other accusations against him, by multiple other children, didn't go to court. BUT I STILL LIKE HIS MUSIC."
(I am quoting @ManateeFair here. Thank you for summarising the issues, Manatee!)

But that is definitely not what OP´s DP did... Arguing that MJ was innocent is the opposite of trying to seperate the art / music from his personal life...

wedonttalkaboutyouno · 07/12/2023 13:32

I totally agree with you OP. I don’t understand why people have such different views on MJ to JS. The fact that MJ left music behind is actually worse in my opinion, because I think his memory should be forgotten. I turn off any radio station that plays his music, and don’t understand why it is acceptable for them to play it.

Cwtshcwtsh · 07/12/2023 13:32

I used to know a retired police officer who after retiring worked as security for MJ in hotels. This was after all the publicity about MJ and children. He stopped working for MJ immediately because he was asked to let unattended children through to MJ’s room 🤢

Jacfrost · 07/12/2023 13:32

I'd be willing to bet OP that you have watched and enjoyed many Weinstein films. Is it just MJ that you have an issue with?