To think this is racist?

[RomaniWoman]

Hey everyone, I'd love some opinions on this situation.

I have recently started a new job in France. My colleague asked me where I was originally from, I told her that I was a Romani, born in England. Hence the accent.

But then it escalated when she went " But you are white" , I insisted that I wasn't white." My mum is a Romani from Ireland and my father a Romani from Romania.

The next day, the same colleague approached me and said " You need to stop saying you're a Gypsy, you don't look like one, why describe yourself as someone who steals and begs?"

She said that sh*t front of 5 other people, and nobody seemed surprised
. I just hesitantly responded " That's pretty racist".

Omg, then the " you are white" blablabla started. My partner then agreed, when I told her, that I should just say I am English because we aren't perceived as a "good" community.

I already know how we are perceived and treated and refuse to deny my identity.

Am I crazy, or is it highly inappropriate, regardless of my skin colour?

My yr 7 came home from her latest PSHE lesson convinced that racism only affects black people…perhaps a lot of adults are still under this impression

"but you are white"... Well, whiteness is a concept (or social structure) that has been evolving for the past centuries.

But more importantly: it is fairly useless when talking about European racism / attitudes re race.

Europeans murdered, displaced and did their best to completely erase other people that were white (or looked white) but were considered lesser, sub-human etc.

There are countless studies about people with Eastern European or "ex-Yugoslavian" surnames facing massive discrimination in various European countries when it comes to employment, housing, citizenship etc.
Telling them that they are "white" won´t solve anything - but can be used to silence them. Which is what the OP has experienced IMO.

You need to stop saying you're a Gypsy, you don't look like one, why describe yourself as someone who steals and begs?

That attitude is not uncommon in various European countries IMO. Those saying these things (at least where I live) will "back up" their vitriol with very real issues related to these communities without considering the impact of their own actions.

You can be racist towards English people in Uk. This was established decades ago in case law and is now explicitly written into the current Equality laws.

Yes it definitely is racist and there's no way that would be allowed in the progressive organisation I work in. Not only denying your heritage which surely you know better than her. But also using derogatory language about that heritage. Absolutely out of order. No excuses.

Sorry I haven't read the full thread.

But that is disgraceful behaviour!! I really would go to HR about that. And I've never been to HR about anything in the 10 years I've been working in offices.

BUT I don't have a country. Why do you insist on the "Nationality= Where you are from". In that case I am also Romanian only, or Irish only.

The whole point of being a nomad, is that your nationality doesn't define where you are from. I could be Hungarian, Bulgarian, Czech, Slovakian.

This is an interesting point OP. In many cultures people identify with where they are from. Obviously for some people like OP their identity isn’t based on a place but rather the people they have descended from. There is probably more immigration then ever before so maybe in the future more people will identify with their ethnicity as opposed to where they were born.

Would there be blowback on you OP if you report this to HR? It’s a shitty question to ask but when it comes to your income it’s not always possible to jeopardise that no matter what is fair or right morally.

It would obviously be considered completely unacceptable in England - but if your wife is French-Romani she is probably best placed to give you an insight and understanding as to the perception of Romani in France.

But if you have the strength and desire to change the perception, one person at a time, just by being you - then go for it. But if you just want an easy life then no one could blame you for that either. Do what's right for you.

Definitely racist - sadly some people still seem to feel anti-Romani racism is the last acceptable kind.

No point arguing with autocorrect once you've spelt it wrong often enough 😂

Or just answer « i’m from the UK », which is not « pretending you are just white British » 🙄

I have citizenship from 2 countries, when I am asked where I am from by al acquaintance I only answer with one country, the one I used to live in previously, doesn’t mean I « pretend » I’m not from the other one.

I'd love to read more about this and understand, as English isn't a race. Could you link to some info? I tried googling but couldn't find anything.

Ask her if she eats smelly cheese and has hairy armpits, as that's what French Women are stereotypically meant to be like .......

I think I might be French.

Op obviously you should be able to say that you are Romani without having to deal with racist statements. It doesn't matter that you didn't need to say it or what else you could have said to avoid that debate. Why do you need to hide it? You should be able to talk a lut your heritage at any time at all. It's not inviting racism. That's nonsense.

What your colleague said was shockingly racist. I don't know if racism in France is more common but that doesn't make it acceptable.

@RomaniWoman Just say the name of the country that issued your passport. It’s that simple. Say more when you have worked out the culture of the organisation. If you find they are not for you, move on. You clearly have support at home to be yourself but why give people more info then they asked for?

Finding racism entertaining is disgusting. Ask MN to delete your post and stop minimising.

I think the last in France was confusing nationality with ethnicity.

They are clearly two separate things.

If she asks where you come from, just say you're British.

She wasn't asking your ethnicity. If she was, tell her you're Romani.

Completely racist and unacceptable. But I am not surprised. Having had dealings with counterparts in the French immigration and police service I heard lots of shocking things that I have never heard from people in the UK.

Of course this is racism and unacceptable.

I’ll admit I am a little confused about your heritage though. I am also Romani. I would never in a million years refer to myself and others from our culture as “gypsies” or “travellers” though.

You mention that your mother is 4th or 5th generation Irish traveller, but Irish travellers have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Romani people. Racially, culturally just in no way whatsoever the same group as Romani, who originate from Indian but are now associated mainly with Europe & have nothing whatsoever to do with Romania despite the Romani sounding like it has something to do with Romania.

I would never refer to myself as anything other than white. Yes Roma people originate from Indian and therefore aren’t “white white” but our bloodline in a racial sense is so diluted that to call ourselves “not white” in 99% of cases is just not accurate. Just like you get white Latin American and black Latin Americans. If you have a 5th generation Irish mother you are at least 50% “pure” white since Irish travellers are not racially non white and are not related to Romani people.

I'm of Irish heritage born in England too (family fled here due to the genocide) and I find a lot of people have an attitude of 'you can't be racist to white people'. I have had that straight up said to me while they laughed in my face before after making jokes about the famine.

It is of course Racist though. Ironically the same people would be deeply offended if people made jokes about Auschwitz or WW2 even though the Jewish would class as 'white' to them too. There like a weird blind spot where some of us are seen as 'acceptable' targets to bully.

I don't like cheese much (unless its cake form) but damn sure I'm growing out my 'winter coat' right now.

I didn't minimise racism. I think it's terrible what happened to OP. As someone who's often read as a different ethnicity to what I am, and have to endure some pretty ignorant follow up questions, I concur with OP that it's racist, rude and ignorant.

But that doesn't change the fact that this thread is a binfire. We've got one poster saying that it's racist to call out racism. Someone else claiming that English people shit on the streets like it's 961 AD. Well I've travelled extensively in UK and never seen that happen, in fact the only time I've seen a human shitting in the street was two young kids in Sylhet.

Another poster who seems to think that sundown towns complete with regular lynchings still exist in US.

And someone else who seems to think that there are 'cultures' which are 'anti-Israeli' but still somehow not 'antisemitic'.

And then there's you who think they can tell other people what to do. Why do people come onto mumsnet if not partly to be entertained? Why else would you be here? It's not like it's an economically productive activity, unless you're one of MN's advertisers of course.

I mean, this thread is all over the place - and that part IS entertaining.

Nope. Being discriminated against because you are Irish is not racist. It is discrimination, but not based on race. Irish isn’t a race.

Anti-semitism is racist because Jewish is race. People can convert to Judaism but people can also be ethnically Jewish.

To be Irish you just have to be born in Ireland. That’s why you can be black and Irish, because it isn’t a race.

@TizerorFizz

Okey, I will address you one final time, because I have the impression that you don't get my point.

I am a Romani, and I am not ashamed of it. If you think I deserved to be hated on, or should hide my identity. That's your opinion.

If my only option is hiding who I am to be treated decently , then it's very disheartening.

I can confirm what @fulawitt has stated.
I know that because I lived there for a decade in the south west.
When travellers came word went round the nearby villages that residents should ensure that their homes and garages were locked.

Personally, yes I think it was racist.
The first blurt may have been unguarded bewilderment if you appear to be white but state that you are not.
The follow-up was overt racism.

Yes of course it's racism.
So just to be clear, you went from England (or Ireland) with your French Romani partner to live and work in France, and there was never any discussion of how things might be different, like before you made the decision to move there?

This is France that maybe as much as 3 or 4 years ago made international headlines for sending 3 policemen with automatic weapons to make a muslim woman remove her long sleeves and trousers because they offended public decency by being worn on a beach.

Honestly I was with you most of the way till you suggested women visiting "anti-women countries" could transition out of their oppression. No. In some of those countries some gay men can transition out of their oppression, but women never can. That is the nature of of oppressing women.

It seems you are being told you could pass as "not a descriminated against minority", but you choose to be out and proud. Fine. That's your choice. The racism is wrong. But you walked in with all the information available, so all this surprise and self righteous identity pride seems a bit played for.