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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is racist?

194 replies

RomaniWoman · 07/12/2023 09:52

Hey everyone, I'd love some opinions on this situation.

I have recently started a new job in France. My colleague asked me where I was originally from, I told her that I was a Romani, born in England. Hence the accent.

But then it escalated when she went " But you are white" , I insisted that I wasn't white." My mum is a Romani from Ireland and my father a Romani from Romania.

The next day, the same colleague approached me and said " You need to stop saying you're a Gypsy, you don't look like one, why describe yourself as someone who steals and begs?"

She said that sh*t front of 5 other people, and nobody seemed surprised
. I just hesitantly responded " That's pretty racist".

Omg, then the " you are white" blablabla started. My partner then agreed, when I told her, that I should just say I am English because we aren't perceived as a "good" community.

I already know how we are perceived and treated and refuse to deny my identity.

Am I crazy, or is it highly inappropriate, regardless of my skin colour?

OP posts:
Gnomegnomegnome · 07/12/2023 11:29

Have you complained @RomaniWoman ? If not you should.

Colleague may have been genuinely interested or confused if your culture wasn’t something that she had come across before but she went further and was racist.

PaintAngst · 07/12/2023 11:32

RomaniWoman · 07/12/2023 10:43

@Nevermind31 I understand what you mean. However, I don't really have a "where I am from". I do not feel English, or British. I have lived mostly in Eastern Europe and England/Ireland. Even there, Irish travellers from 4 or 5 generation - Like my mother- do not call themselves "just" Irish.

I do not feel like I belong to any country.

Edited

But Irish Travellers are a completely different ethnicity to Roma.

Myfabby · 07/12/2023 11:33

SherbetDips · 07/12/2023 10:34

That’s what the French are like, they aren’t woke over there.

What do you mean? What's woke to you?

ButterCupPie · 07/12/2023 11:34

Neriah · 07/12/2023 11:28

I'd be interested to know what the "cultural thing" is. My experience is that the vast majority of people in the UK think the same about Romani people, and are just as racist.

Racism is racism wherever it occurs and should be challenged.

BTW, Romani and Travellers are not always the same thing. There are other Traveller cultures that are not Romani.

Show quote history

My mother's parents were both Travellers who decided to leave the road and live in a house (it was called 'going respectable'). I really don't like to hear people in the UK talk about 'Gippos', or 'Pikeys', and you'd be amazed (or maybe not!) how many people do. Sometimes it just floors me if it's someone I thought was all right.

Ellamaelucyolivia · 07/12/2023 11:35

Irish travellers are by law considered a different ethnicity to Irish people. However, they are also Caucasian and not actually a different race as such. I guess the different culture is considered a marker of ethnicity? It's very nuanced. Sorry - I am aware that Romani people are different to this. Not wanting to derail your thread.

JoanMacIntosh · 07/12/2023 11:39

Unfortunately this type of rhetoric is very typical in France.

EmmaEmerald · 07/12/2023 11:40

flowerchild2000 · 07/12/2023 10:14

That's horrible. So are all the comments here excusing it. I grew up in the American South where black men are still to this day lynched. It's a cultural thing, and those views are openly expressed- there was even a large sign in our town warning them, "When the sun goes down get your black ass out of town". So it's ok right? Excusing any level of racism in any form is guess what.. racist!

Jaw on the floor.
when was this please?

cerisepanther73 · 07/12/2023 11:42

It's 💯 per cent inappropriate an racist at the same time. !

Your colleague is also gaslighting your ethnicity and the racism experiences of your culture too..

What an ignorant shitty kind of colleague you have the misfortune to come across.

this is such typical of classic racial stereotyping mindset

it really shows how stupid and narrow minded your colleague

Is your colleague suggesting seriously, that it's only people of Romani ethnicity heritage who do shop lift, !

Your colleague is as "thick as shit 💩, as outdoor toilet" 🚻 as sometimes people used to say back in the day..

MrTruckle · 07/12/2023 11:43

RomaniWoman · 07/12/2023 10:13

I don't get it? How are am I displaying racism? When did I say the "English way is right?" The right way, is when people do not stereotype me or everyone in the Romani/Gypsy/Travellers community.

If you think racism is acceptable because of "culture, that's very sad.

Show quote history

What a comment from that poster.

The ‘right’ thing is not be racist. And your colleague was. Good for you for asserting your heritage.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 07/12/2023 11:44

SherbetDips · 07/12/2023 10:34

That’s what the French are like, they aren’t woke over there.

This.

cerisepanther73 · 07/12/2023 11:44

@RomaniWoman
Unfortunately in France 🇫🇷 its backward in its attitude to racial bias stereotyping ect..

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 07/12/2023 11:44

It is very racist and you should report it.
presumably though you are white, from England and Romani. I don’t think they are mutually exclusive concepts so maybe that’s what she is struggling with.

UncleHerbie · 07/12/2023 11:45

SherbetDips · 07/12/2023 10:34

That’s what the French are like, they aren’t woke over there.

What’s your definition of “woke”?

Finteq · 07/12/2023 11:48

EmmaEmerald · 07/12/2023 11:40

Jaw on the floor.
when was this please?

Show quote history

It's still happens now.

There are towns you can't be in when it's sundown- look it up.

Jk8 · 07/12/2023 11:48

Inappropriate yh. But are you describing yourself as a gypsy ? (Not that it should matter but the words 'stop describing yourself as a gypsy makes me think a white women full time working ect. Is a bit precious about being 'exotic' iyswim)

But listing yourself as irish/Romany as in responce to paperwork (nationality = british ethnicity = irish & Romani) or conversationally if you look a bit forign ect. Is a bit odd as these days I wouldnt consider it indian ect.

Bromptotoo · 07/12/2023 11:49

This is why the idea that 'France is a safe country' is disputed.

They're years behind the UK in terms of inclusivity and going backwards.

Finteq · 07/12/2023 11:50

Finteq · 07/12/2023 11:48

It's still happens now.

There are towns you can't be in when it's sundown- look it up.

Show quote history

And I'd follow that advice. I wouldn't stay after sundown to make a point.

It doesn't mean I'm excusing the racism or saying it's not racism.

Myfabby · 07/12/2023 11:50

Jk8 · 07/12/2023 11:48

Inappropriate yh. But are you describing yourself as a gypsy ? (Not that it should matter but the words 'stop describing yourself as a gypsy makes me think a white women full time working ect. Is a bit precious about being 'exotic' iyswim)

But listing yourself as irish/Romany as in responce to paperwork (nationality = british ethnicity = irish & Romani) or conversationally if you look a bit forign ect. Is a bit odd as these days I wouldnt consider it indian ect.

why are you policing what she describes herself as?

a bit forign- what's that exactly?

TizerorFizz · 07/12/2023 11:53

The OP wasn’t asked what her racial background was. She was asked where she was from and chose to offer more info that’s not on her passport. Before I did that I would see what the culture of the office was before I mentioned anything like religion or ethnicity. Why even say anything? It’s not necessary in the first few days.

EmmaEmerald · 07/12/2023 11:54

Finteq · 07/12/2023 11:48

It's still happens now.

There are towns you can't be in when it's sundown- look it up.

Show quote history

I did once have a white friend say he'd visited a beautiful town in Montana "but I don't think it's safe for you to go there". This was about 20 years ago though.

I had hoped that was over. More fool me I guess.

OP I have people politely suggest that France isn't a good holiday place for me, sorry to say, what you have had doesn't surprise me. I don't know enough about France to know whether it's worth reporting or not. But I am very sorry you had this experience.

Jk8 · 07/12/2023 11:56

Myfabby · 07/12/2023 11:50

why are you policing what she describes herself as?

a bit forign- what's that exactly?

Show quote history

😂 calm yourself down The words 'stop describing yourself as a gypsy' are not exactly common unless its been heard a few times & a bit forign is exactly like somebody who looks a bit german/italian/irish/Spanish even though they were born & raised in england/UK

Epidote · 07/12/2023 11:56

It goes in the Gipsy definition. On the continent specifically in France and Spain, Gipsy doesn't stand by the same definition than in UK.

If you tell a Spanish/ French Gipsy you are Gipsy I'm pretty sure they will tell you. No, you are not.

You may find it racist. I get you that. I'm sure your colleague find it weird you defined yourself as Gipsy.

I would think it lies with the semantics of the meaning of the word in a place and in the other.

Historybooks · 07/12/2023 11:57

Completely inappropriate. Sadly there's a lot of racism towards Romani in Europe. Sounds like she thinks she's doing you a favour teaching you to blend in. But it's not right and it's worth reporting.

TheShellBeach · 07/12/2023 12:00

ButterCupPie · 07/12/2023 11:34

My mother's parents were both Travellers who decided to leave the road and live in a house (it was called 'going respectable'). I really don't like to hear people in the UK talk about 'Gippos', or 'Pikeys', and you'd be amazed (or maybe not!) how many people do. Sometimes it just floors me if it's someone I thought was all right.

Edited
Show quote history

My DH is from a Travelling family.
I've always been horrified when I hear or read all the racist comments which seem to be acceptable on here or IRL.

fulawitt · 07/12/2023 12:01

1/3 french is openly racist. I am not sure HR will lift a finger. So sorry OP.