To think this is racist?

[RomaniWoman]

Hey everyone, I'd love some opinions on this situation.

I have recently started a new job in France. My colleague asked me where I was originally from, I told her that I was a Romani, born in England. Hence the accent.

But then it escalated when she went " But you are white" , I insisted that I wasn't white." My mum is a Romani from Ireland and my father a Romani from Romania.

The next day, the same colleague approached me and said " You need to stop saying you're a Gypsy, you don't look like one, why describe yourself as someone who steals and begs?"

She said that sh*t front of 5 other people, and nobody seemed surprised
. I just hesitantly responded " That's pretty racist".

Omg, then the " you are white" blablabla started. My partner then agreed, when I told her, that I should just say I am English because we aren't perceived as a "good" community.

I already know how we are perceived and treated and refuse to deny my identity.

Am I crazy, or is it highly inappropriate, regardless of my skin colour?

How do you know that? Don't tell me, you've met three French people?

stats from ipsos mori ie people qualifying themselves.

@Melodyy What is wrong with answering the question as it was intended? She wasn’t asked about ethnic background. It’s just common sense not to give details to people you don’t know. I think she can say what she wants about herself but this was in reply to a fairly basic straightforward question and who wanted the detail? It’s now caused issues that could have been avoided as the French really won’t care. She’s not working in the uk. She’s not been discriminated against but is presumably now expecting to be. This will now be a saga. Its rights vs common sense in a culture you don’t yet know. The Brits always think others think as we do and we are, of course, morally superior with laws backing this up. Other people are not the same and although this might be wrong, why poke the hornets’ nest in the first few days?

The next day, the same colleague approached me and said " You need to stop saying you're a Gypsy, you don't look like one, why describe yourself as someone who steals and begs?"

Wow! That had me lifting my brows way over my head in shock. Certainly racist.

With the White thing, I think people seem to have different or at least 2 definitions of race: 1)what you look like or 2) your ethnicity/background.

So I can understand when someone says "You're x race", they mean 'I couldn't tell you apart from a lineup of that race if I didn't know anything else about you'.

Then, some people would say "I'm not white or x race to mean 'I'm not from x countries that are known as stereotypically white or those that identify themselves by race, therefore "White" isn't my ethnicity'.

My partner then agreed, when I told her, that I should just say I am English because we aren't perceived as a "good" community.

This isn't the issue here though as she and your husband are choosing the negative attributes to tell you to basically renounce your ethnicity. That is shocking and not acceptable.

This is where I am getting confused about the white/not white thing. Irish travellers have different origins to Romani people and are definitely considered white in Ireland. IME they are very proud people who consider themselves to be separate from rest of Irish people.

Having said all that anyone considered to be Roma has a tough time in many, many places. I had a Romanian work colleague once who found that even though she wasn’t Roma people often gave her a wide berth once they realised she was Romanian unless she specified she wasn’t Roma.

It’s definitely racist OP.

It's weird and wrong of her. Romanians have an awful reputation where I live, not specifically gypsies though. You should tell her straight.

The positive is : you are discussing and talking with that person, try not to be defensive and explain, there is a good chance you will get through.

There is no such word as forign. Did you mean foreign?

@TizerorFizz

But I am not just "British" , and I don't feel right calling myself " Oh I am English". I am a Romani. I have my own language. My own culture. My own history.

Maybe I am a bit naïve, having lived around Romani people all my life, but I didn't expect to have to know the organisation culture before disclosing my ethnicity. In that office, everyone is new and trust there are far more private details being shared among people who all met just 4 months ago.

Next time she says something tell her she’s got it backwards.
Now that she has met a Romani gypsy who is not a thief and has a paler complexion that she was expecting she needs to revise her definition of what Romani means, not tell you to pretend not to be Romani because it’s causing her some cognitive dissonance.
And perhaps she should go one step further and consider that perhaps the reason she believed Romani are all thieves is because she and people she knows have only being using the name Romani for people who happens to fit her stereotype and ignoring anyone who does not.

You are indeed being naive, OP.

To use your own example from earlier, is it acceptable for some countries to treat women differently? No, absolutely not. But if you visit that country, should be expect and be prepared to be treated differently? Absolutely yes.

MN has a real problem with racism against GRTs. I'm tired of reporting it and pointing them to organisations and individuals that could help them address it.

YANBU. Your colleague was racist and you absolutely should report it. Ignore the posters minimising it. Ignore the posters displaying their own racism and prejudice (whether against you or the French). Your colleague breached France's anti-discrimination legislation.

@Crunchingleaf That's why a lot of Romanians resent Romani people, because for the rest of the world they are "Gypsies" and unfortunately we seem to have a bad reputation in Western Europe.

BUT spitting hate directly to people is disgusting. I don't care if people do not like me, as long as , they don't harass me, insult me or try to restrict my rights.

You say it much better than me.

My kids have politely been told France wouldn't be a good country to seek employment or settle in,when older.

@RomaniWoman She didn’t ask
you what you feel. She didn’t ask you about your language or your history. You volunteered the extra info.

Actually I do think you have to know the culture of where you are working before saying much. Look at the ethnic and religious difficulties around the world. Do you really think everywhere is tolerant and abides by the rules the Brits have? They absolutely don’t. All I’m saying is take your time to assess where you are and what their views are.Then add a bit more info if appropriate. I find Australia has backward views too. Not everywhere is like the uk.

@BobLemon Oh really, thank you for your wonderful, non-condescending, empathic answer. You're right, the solution is women going to Anti-women countries should transition during their stay. I guess, my naïve self will now be an English woman.

Imagine someone saying that about any other race.

I knew someone would say this. I was reading to find it. At least, it's "any other race" but still early days - someone will probably get more specific if I keep scrolling.

Saying as a mixed race person.

I think this may be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on Mumsnet.

OP, yes it is 100% racist. I do some work in France and find racism quite an issue there, but you should definitely raise it with HR if you feel safe to do so.

@TizerorFizz BUT I don't have a country. Why do you insist on the "Nationality= Where you are from". In that case I am also Romanian only, or Irish only.

The whole point of being a nomad, is that your nationality doesn't define where you are from. I could be Hungarian, Bulgarian, Czech, Slovakian.

It doesn't matter that the OP offered additional info about her background which she can very much do if she wishes. The fact is that info was used to abuse her. THAT'S THE STORY. Stop making excuses for racism!

They're called Sundown Towns, I believe. Horrific.

You are totally right - you should be proud of your own heritage. She can now challenge her own set of beliefs against the Romani.

I have, to my shame, held a deep down unconscious bias against Irish travellers who as you probably know are widely discrimated against. Then I worked with traveller women and it reframed how I viewed the community.

I do think this one sounds like a bit of a lost cause though.

My wife (we're both women) is a French-Romani. That's the only reason I moved here.

Oh OP, I apologise for the use of 'husband' in one of my posts. For some reason, I thought I'd seen that but 'partner' was there all along in the past I quoted.

They don't have the right to judge and determine what your racial background is. Nothing 'woke' about it 🙄