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Original poster

To think this is racist?

194 replies

RomaniWoman · 07/12/2023 09:52

Hey everyone, I'd love some opinions on this situation.

I have recently started a new job in France. My colleague asked me where I was originally from, I told her that I was a Romani, born in England. Hence the accent.

But then it escalated when she went " But you are white" , I insisted that I wasn't white." My mum is a Romani from Ireland and my father a Romani from Romania.

The next day, the same colleague approached me and said " You need to stop saying you're a Gypsy, you don't look like one, why describe yourself as someone who steals and begs?"

She said that sh*t front of 5 other people, and nobody seemed surprised
. I just hesitantly responded " That's pretty racist".

Omg, then the " you are white" blablabla started. My partner then agreed, when I told her, that I should just say I am English because we aren't perceived as a "good" community.

I already know how we are perceived and treated and refuse to deny my identity.

Am I crazy, or is it highly inappropriate, regardless of my skin colour?

OP posts:
Heyhoherewegoagain · 07/12/2023 11:04

SherbetDips · 07/12/2023 10:34

That’s what the French are like, they aren’t woke over there.

I have very little time for a lot of wokeness, but I have absolutely no time for racism. You need to educate yourself!

LauderSyme · 07/12/2023 11:04

Your colleague negatively stereotyped an entire group of people based purely on their shared ethnicity so yes, 100% racist.

Ethnic origin is complex and nuanced, surely it is possible to be both White and Romani? But as I am not a member of that group I am happy to stand corrected by one who is.

therealcookiemonster · 07/12/2023 11:05

SherbetDips · 07/12/2023 10:34

That’s what the French are like, they aren’t woke over there.

so not being racist and not calling people from the Romani community thieves is woke now? would you also like to bring back "no blacks, no irish" signs in various establishments?

SallyWD · 07/12/2023 11:07

Blatantly racist and completely unacceptable. Sadly not surprising. I've heard dreadful things said against the Romany people in several European countries.

therealcookiemonster · 07/12/2023 11:07

TizerorFizz · 07/12/2023 10:06

Yes but it’s France. Views are more openly expressed.

racism isn't just a view openly expressed. it's not like someone being vocal about their preference for their steak being medium rare.

Sugargliderwombat · 07/12/2023 11:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

That is not what racism is.

HideousKinky · 07/12/2023 11:07

Her first response might have been blurted out in a tactless unthinking moment, but approaching you again and repeating it is unforgivable.
Having heard how you self-identify, she should have kept any further thoughts to herself

notlucreziaborgia · 07/12/2023 11:08

It is, but I’m not sure how far you’re going to get by complaining about it. Not in France, anyway*

*No, I’m not stereotyping all French as racist, but referencing that France is known to be very anti-gens du voyage.

therealcookiemonster · 07/12/2023 11:08

OP it's awful that she spoke to you like that. and in your place I would report to HR. she (and by the sounds of it, the whole team) need to have some diversity training.

Mostlyoblivious · 07/12/2023 11:10

Equality Act 2010: Gypsy is actually listed there. So offensive of your colleague, I am so sorry.

Ignore DH, why lie about who you are to shut up an ignorant discriminatory idiot - he is perpetuating the endemic societal issue!!!!

TizerorFizz · 07/12/2023 11:10

@RomaniWoman You could have just said “British” and then said the town where you had lived. No need to say any more. Why put yourself in another category? It’s not necessary in the circumstances. They weren’t asking about your heritage or family origins. I wouldn’t expect that detail when I first met someone. Just say the town or region because that’s what they were asking about.

Finteq · 07/12/2023 11:12

Mostlyoblivious · 07/12/2023 11:10

Equality Act 2010: Gypsy is actually listed there. So offensive of your colleague, I am so sorry.

Ignore DH, why lie about who you are to shut up an ignorant discriminatory idiot - he is perpetuating the endemic societal issue!!!!

Does that cover France? Or do they have a different act?

Melodyy · 07/12/2023 11:12

TizerorFizz · 07/12/2023 11:10

@RomaniWoman You could have just said “British” and then said the town where you had lived. No need to say any more. Why put yourself in another category? It’s not necessary in the circumstances. They weren’t asking about your heritage or family origins. I wouldn’t expect that detail when I first met someone. Just say the town or region because that’s what they were asking about.

Don't tell the OP how to describe herself. That's one of the issues we have in society today. If she's a gypsy then she's a gypsy. If I'm black then I'm black. You sound uneducated and stupid quite frankly. Usually these comments always come from people who have never experienced racism a day in their lives.

MaryMcCarthy · 07/12/2023 11:13

TizerorFizz · 07/12/2023 11:10

@RomaniWoman You could have just said “British” and then said the town where you had lived. No need to say any more. Why put yourself in another category? It’s not necessary in the circumstances. They weren’t asking about your heritage or family origins. I wouldn’t expect that detail when I first met someone. Just say the town or region because that’s what they were asking about.

Are people not allowed to have any pride in their heritage? Or even mention it?

The OPs parents are Irish and Romanian, so why should she say she's British? How arrogant of you to think you can dictate how people describe themselves.

SallyWD · 07/12/2023 11:13

Finteq · 07/12/2023 10:40

It's a different culture.

Things that are normal there will seem racists here.

Yes the stuff the colleague said would be considered racist- but I'm not sure how it would be taken in France. You can make a complaint, but again if attitudes are different it might not go anywhere.

There are certain counties classed as racists by people of certain ethnicities. Most English( white) wouldn't consider those countries racists.

France is considered quite racist in my circle of friends and family. Compared to the UK anyway.

It doesn't matter if it's seen as a normal attitude in France. It's still racist - to view all members of one ethnicity in the same way. That's the very definition of racism.
Ok it might be acceptable to say this in France but that doesn't stop it being racist.
Sadly plenty of Brits share these unfortunate views but are generally socialised to keep quiet!

Original poster
RomaniWoman · 07/12/2023 11:13

Ok, I understand it might be a bit bizarre but it's basically there are Romanis and Non-Romani European/White people.

The Romani dialect I speak is closer to punjabi than English.

OP posts:
ButterCupPie · 07/12/2023 11:16

SherbetDips · 07/12/2023 10:34

That’s what the French are like, they aren’t woke over there.

My cousin is married to a teacher in Nantes; he's a Socialist member of the local council, he is ecolo, and is more woke than most English people I know (except, maybe, for me and DH and our kids).

Finteq · 07/12/2023 11:17

Seriously.

Yes it was racist.

No you shouldn't have to define yourself as British.

But I'm not sure how that actually helps you now in France.

You've gotta check what the HR is there- is this considered something they will take seriously or not? Or if you complain are you gonna get labelled a troublemaker?

For an easier life I would just do what your husband said- but as someone whose parents had to make do with whatever abuse was thrown at them, its a privileged position to be in to say you aren't gonna take it. If I was in a similar position in France they'd probably just sack me,so it depends how you feel about how it would be taken.

RudsyFarmer · 07/12/2023 11:18

I think we might have just found out why there’s so many small boats being launched from France. Those attitudes being attributed to culture are blatant racism and unacceptable.

SallyWD · 07/12/2023 11:21

ButterCupPie · 07/12/2023 11:16

My cousin is married to a teacher in Nantes; he's a Socialist member of the local council, he is ecolo, and is more woke than most English people I know (except, maybe, for me and DH and our kids).

Show quote history

My SIL is also from Nantes and also what would be described as "woke". She's very anti-racism.

ocarinaflow · 07/12/2023 11:22

Alohapotato · 07/12/2023 10:02

Yes is racist but in France, Portugal and Spain travellers are usually dark skin , I was surprised when I moved to UK and saw that here travelers are blond with blue eyes and pale skin.

Show quote history

In Eastern Europe and Central Asia, it's super common for Romani to have blue eyes etc. Think it's more likely that if you look white you'll just go with "I'm white" in openly racist countries in W Europe

ButterCupPie · 07/12/2023 11:23

SallyWD · 07/12/2023 11:21

My SIL is also from Nantes and also what would be described as "woke". She's very anti-racism.

Show quote history

I was in two minds about the word 'woke', as I usually see it used by right-wingers as a slur against progressives, but I have decided to reclaim it. I am WOKE and proud of it.

Original poster
RomaniWoman · 07/12/2023 11:25

@Finteq My choices seems to be : Pretend I am just White British or go back to England or Ireland.

My wife (we're both women) is a French-Romani. That's the only reason I moved here.

OP posts:
LauderSyme · 07/12/2023 11:25

@Catza "English" and "French" are not races but nationalities, therefore even if the OP said the "English way was best" she would not be displaying racism

This is absurdly wrong. There is only one race: the human race. We are all just differing versions of the human race, depending on our geographical and genetic inheritance.

Therefore racism is not about literal race but about the othering of people whose inheritance differs from ours, whether that be manifested in their skin colour, their ethnicity or their culture, etc.

Neriah · 07/12/2023 11:28

This reply has been deleted

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I'd be interested to know what the "cultural thing" is. My experience is that the vast majority of people in the UK think the same about Romani people, and are just as racist.

Racism is racism wherever it occurs and should be challenged.

BTW, Romani and Travellers are not always the same thing. There are other Traveller cultures that are not Romani.

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