Are all counsellors dealing with their own shitty situations too?

[Whybeacounsellor]

So my DP and I have been noticing a new trend amongst our friends which is that between 45 and 50 they quit professional jobs to retrain as counsellors. Fair enough in a sense that they are of an age to offer some life experience and wisdom because who wants to offload onto a 28 year old?

But what’s striking is that the four people we know are all dealing in their own lives with some mind blowing shit particularly with their families. Person one - son deals drugs and another son was accused of indecent exposure. Husband has been having a very obvious affair but friend won’t accept or admit it. Person two - 3 recent bereavements in a row, one of which was very unexpected. Person three - teenage daughter being brought home by police several times, been expelled, social has got involved. Person four - father caught shoplifting and has brought massive shame on the family because, he’s actually a local solicitor so it’s been very public and in the local paper.

DP isn’t much of a deep thinker and thinks that this is just normal life stuff and has no bearing on a their decision to go into counselling. I on the other hand am more cynical about their motives in changing careers now and think there’s something a bit voyeuristic about wanting to hear about the ‘dirt’ and sad, awful things in other people’s lives. I wonder if they use their job to feel better about their own experiences.

YABU - no of course not, they’re motivated by wanting to help others

YANBU - they are basically driven by a need to know that other people have shitty lives too

@Yaros what you’ve said actually makes me a bit annoyed and worried about a counsellor’s stages, which I stated I underwent when I was 19/20 and involved her blaming my mother for all my problems when I told her this wasn’t the case, getting me to hit cushions when I didn’t want to do so and then wanting to increase the price of the session after 6 months knowing that I couldn’t afford that and telling me about her own bills and that was why she was increasing the costs. If that’s a good example of moving a client through stages then I’d have to disagree with it all.

Mirroring can be useful with some clients but not all. It can be quite a lazy way to give therapy I find.

You may be thinking of the stereotype of person-centred therapy, which isn’t only about listening skills. There’s no type of therapy about there where the therapist only listens but perhaps some people are out there doing this (and shouldn’t be).

Many counsellors / therapists don't go there. They want to keep you trapped in 'venting'. Venting has been scientifically proven to be addictive. I've read up on this and been to seminars about it.

That makes sense get stuck in righteous anger, dopamine hits but it definitely doesn’t qualify as therapeutic.

Agreed with some counsellors wanting to keep their clients trapped into paying for them forever. I had an ex boyfriend who did this with his counsellor and he’d seen her for years with not much improvement (his words!) and basically just whinged about his pampered life to her. When I suggested maybe she saw his custom as an easy way to make money he got quite shirty with me!

I agree that most people don't just want to be listened to and validated. They want help to move on.
I think some of the good counsellors do give 'suggestions' in a roundabout way. The counsellor guides very gently and because they pick up on the client, they're able to guide them along the clients own lines. Well, mostly, the client ends up guiding themself.
I come into contact with a lot of counsellors and the good ones are really good and you can tell.

I can’t think of the therapy but I certainly had this as a teenager through the local health authority, I spoke and he made notes, never interacted with me apart from hello and goodbye. The other therapists up til I was 20 were similar but would engage occasionally with me, it was more about listening rather than offering advice. I wish I could recall which area it was maybe psychotherapy? Maybe therapies have moved on since then as this was over 30 years ago!

@romdowa physician heal thyself springs to mind.

I think at least 2 of the people I mentioned here had addiction issues though they may not be addiction counsellors. I’m sure one of them goes into that with her clients (her addiction history) if they ask. Like I said some people I don’t trust an inch.

Counsellors and therapists are different.
Counsellors work with conscious processes and thoughts.Therapists work with the conscious, subconscious and unconscious processes and thoughts.
Most importantly therapists have in depth training with a possible area of specialism, including extensive training with personal development
component and psychiatric placements, and are likely to have areas of specialism.
Counselling may help with more surface type difficulties and
current problems. Therapy helps with current and past difficulties which require in depth processing and psyche changes.
Counselling is usually a short to mid term process, therapy is usually a medium to long term process.
It boils my blood when someone sets up as a life coach/counsellor, and some assume they are equivalent to a therapist who is likely to have trained for a minimum of 5 years at university level plus placements in medical settings.

I have watched over years a very disturbed relative insert herself into positions of trust involving vulnerable people who have no choice about the staff around them. It was upsetting to see the way she seemed to revel in badmouthing these people and sharing their private mental health issues etc at family dinners. Completely unprofessional and seemingly done for attention - the more shocking and gory the more she would smile whilst telling despite being told she was totally out of order - shameless.

She has furthered this career by doing a very short "counselling" course run as a sort of evening class via a prestigious uni and then went on to market herself as being a graduate of said uni (not the original college she scraped through).

This is someone utterly shallow who seems to me to be blatantly targeting vulnerable people for personal gain. A manipulative power tripper who lacks the conscience or morals (or intellect) to behave in a professional structured manner in the service of others. A charlatan - ice cold.

I don't think this is unusual in this line of work and I think the numbers increased massively over the pandemic when people were looking about for extra income.

I have dealt with counselling services personally via bereavement and found recently the services on offer are not what they used to be. One person I was referred to only made it 10 minutes into the first session before I had to withdraw, the level of arrogance, presumption and general naivety was unacceptable. When I complained to the service provider nothing was done, it was seen as my issue not theirs, there was no wish to resolve any problem or help me.

No, a counsellor is also a therapist.

Have you any idea what kind of training is involved to be a qualified counsellor? It’s not something you get qualified in just a few months, or year. It is emotionally shredding and, generally, rigorous.

as a counsellor of many years, who has done long term work with many clients, looking at both conscious and unconscious processes, I can say that there isn't much to separate a "therapist" from a counsellor. Except you'll pay much more to see a psychotherapist and psychologist, obviously!
There's more theory and academia involved on the route to being a psychotherapist or psychologist, but that doesn't necessarily translate to
being good at sitting with people and really supporting and helping them in the midst of their difficulties/trauma. (and I speak both as a counsellor and a client, having seen both counsellors, psychotherapists and psychologists throughout the course
of my life, mostly as part of my training but also on a personal level, as the parent of an autistic child)

and yes, I'm not sure where the idea
comes from; that counsellors
work only with short term clients and only on here and now topics. Not true.

This is absolute rubbish in general, sorry, there's many modalities

Here's some facts

Counsellors, therapists, and psychotherapist
CAN BE
completely unqualified people who are only working on taking your money week in week out and have no training and no process whatsoever.

Or they can have done a couple of short courses or even some part time course or perhaps a whole couple of years training and be fully disinterested in anything whatsoever apart from your money money money and their loft conversion / holidays / kids school fees.

Or they could be highly qualified and still a con artist / rapist

True story: most senior member of staff working at the leading Personality Disorder service in N London with vulnerable young women was sacked on the spot aged 59 for raping female clients IN THEIR SESSIONS AT THE NHS BUILDING. Keith Broadbent. Google him. Don't suppose he suddenly took up his crappy grooming rapey habit at the age of 59 so that would be a forty year career of sexual abuse in the name of being a therapist.

Don't forget 'psychoanalysis' in all of this though.

I had a psychoanalyst (truly most sickest person mentally and physically I've ever met in my life) via the NHS once. She had fourteen years training including medical degree, psychiatry degree, PhD, post graduate everything under the sun and all the analytic therapy stuff.

She was abs batshit crazy and said some things that were deeply insane so I had to complain about her. She went off sick and never came back. How odd. She was also very clearly and openly severely physically ill.

@benfoldsfivefan, Glad you’ve corrected @Crunched.

It’s quite worrying really when a lot of people are taken in by the difference between a therapist and counsellor and giving my own example earlier when I was unsure re listening therapy, in my defence my DM had me referred by our GP to the NHS listening counsellor/therapist and she just went along with it. When the NHS stopped funding my therapy when I left school as I recall one of DM’s therapists was a psychotherapist with links to a reputable organisation (I can’t recall it at all now) and it was felt by us both that I needed this and DM funded it for me with research from both of us. I paid for this when I worked (full price) but when I went into full time education I found a reduced price therapist which DM then paid for.

If people here are taken in by the definitions then Joe Public of course is quite likely to be taken in by this too! There really needs to be far more strident regulations around these therapists/counsellors, it seems to me.

Although the industry definition of counsellor vs psychotherapist is a counsellor as being someone who works with conscious process and a psychotherapist someone who works with unconscious process, as neither are protected titles- like general therapist- it is extremely difficult to assess someone's competence or expertise by what they call themselves. Also psychologist is not a protected title in the UK- clinical psychologist and counselling psychologist are protected titles, but anyone can call themselves a psychologist, leading to new guidance in the family courts. https://www.milnerslaw.co.uk/psychologists-in-family-law-courts-the-new-guidance-explained#:~:text=A%20psychologist's%20report%20can%20influence,alienated%22%20them%20from%20their%20father.

The idea that many people in the helping professions are themselves vulnerable in some way goes back to at least Jung and 'the wounded healer'. Someone who has undergone rigorous training will have undergone personal therapy and supervision which should be encouraging the therapist to identify their own mental processes and separate that from the clients. Unfortunately, I would say even going through that training does not mean that people who are insightful/plausible/articulate- yet badly intentioned - stop getting through. See Warner Interviews- used to be a standard safeguard for trying to weed out potential child abusers from positions with children, by asking lot of personal and ethical questions. However it transpired paedophiles did really well at Warner interviews as they were able to demonstrate great verbal empathy with children.

Neither does it preclude people having a major life crisis themselves later down the line and becoming unfit to offer therapy- if you are self employed as a therapist, there is very little oversight even if registered with BACP or UKCP.

In answer to your original question. No not all counsellors are using the work to deal with their own shit (consciously or unconsciously) but many are. As others have referenced there is a whole research area on this 'the wounded healer' and reputable training organisations will cover this in training.
It's an interesting debate and one that most members of the public are unaware of.
The issue is that anybody can call themselves a counsellor or therapist or psychotherapist and can list some impressive sounding qualifications that are actually piss all guarantee of anything. And many people who do a years part time counselling course think they are equipped to do all sorts with no real insight into their own motivation, use of self in the work or limits of competent practice. The area that really pisses me off the most is when people claim they can do couples therapy after a two day training on top of their counselling certificate. Couples and family work is specialist and missteps are easy (control, DV, gender dynamics, developmental differences). Then people who have a poor experience think all therapy is shit
It's so underegulated.
There are only a few protected titles that people can't use unless they are registered (well they could but face consequences it's like calling yourself a Dr medicine). It's much more of a guarantee but not a fail safe, I've met some 'interesting' psychologists in my time but generally a small minority. The training is long and rigorous and the governance, CPD and supervision requirements help to weed out the worst.
Protected titles

• Art psychotherapist
• Art therapist
• Dramatherapist
• Music therapist
• Clinical psychologist
• Forensic psychologist
• Counselling psychologist
• Health psychologist
• Educational psychologist
• Occupational psychologist
• Sport and exercise psychologist

Exactly. I know a few people who have followed this kind of path. Sorry OP but it seems quite bitchy to think they “are basically driven by a need to know that other people have shitty lives too” 😬🤦🏻‍♀️

I am very cynical about Counsellors. I know they cant all be bad, but still. I'm thinking of 3 I know well:

One is an Andrew Tate disciple and thinks its fine to talk about 'body count'. Unmarried, can't maintain relationships. Also too much (judgmental bullshit) to say about women who are 20 years younger than him and way out of his league.

The other has family issues and flatly refuses to see why his sister is upset by their narcissistic parent, who treated her differently whilst he was 'God'.

& one who goes to work and home, no social life, still lives with her parents (she's late 30s), has been with her boyfriend for a decade with no progress. She's retrained as a Life Coach and is now looking into going for Counselling qualifications

Essentially anyone who's done the training, gains the qualifications, looks and sounds the part, is on a roll.

Again Im sure they're not all bad but the ones I know have put me off ever going to a Counsellor

Some very interesting things here to reflect on, especially the post from @hettie I had no idea about this.

I can understand the type of counsellor who is one with lived experience as I'm informed that many rehab centres and such deploy people with LE.

As someone who has long since recovered from my own substance addiction & alcoholism and used a wide variety of tools to get myself out of the gutter and release my own sick thinking, I genuinely believe I'd be useful / helpful and a really good addiction counsellor one day. I've got pressing physical health issues to deal with right now.

I would never want to do it without professional training and a framework / network of peers and superiors. It wouldn't be because I'm trying to figure myself out or being a wounded healer it would literally be OK let me show you the way out of this living hell using the tools that work so you too can be free.

I do help friends and people I meet on a local level if they ask me to, I chat around the subject and we have in depth conversations about if they'd like to change and how they could but I never ask them to get back to me on how they're going or lean on them or have them feel they can start leaning on me because I'm really good with boundaries.

I can see that if I was a sick minded person, I could just set up clinic as an 'alcohol counsellor' and charge really really vulnerable people to come desperately chat with me. That would be so predatory and there's so many people actually doing exactly that. (not that many addicts are wanting to spend their time or money on counsellors tbh, thankfully!)

As a parent of SEN children, I started seeing a counsellor to help me cope with the challenges of our life and to help me process my children's diagnoses/conditions and to help me reframe my view of family life now we know what we know.

I think she has/had a child with medical needs at some point in his life (possibly still does) and her experience navigating that led her to wanting to help other parents in similar situations.

She has been wonderful for me. I get a fortnightly opportunity to reflect on what's going on in my life and this always teaches me something, I have identified my core values which I found very helpful because I like to check my choices and behaviours align with my values (when they do I almost always feel most comfortable) and she has introduced me to a number of techniques that help me process emotions (really helpful as I need to do this for myself in order to help my children regulate their own emotions too).

She charges £50/55. For those in the know, how long should I be seeing someone like her? I feel like I want to continue for at least another 3 months (fortnightly sessions) and now see it as a very important part of my coping strategies.

I'm a level 4 qualified counsellor. I'm not able to vote as I didn't train for either of your reasons.

I find human behavior fascinating. I find the theories within counselling fascinating. That was what motivated me. Wheb I trained my life was in a pretty good place and I didn't have anything major going on.

During our training I got to know several of the people I trained with well. Some had stuff going on. One had been supported through counselling herself to realise she was able to get herself past a trauma. (Severe trauma) that motivated her to train. One simply wanted to learn and had no intention of practicing as a counsellor (and still doesnt) one was a priest and wanted to use it in his way his parisioners)

As for stuff yourself. We'll I mostly deal with bereavement. I recently and unexpectedly lost a very close friend. I took the day after her funeral off. As I knew I was unlikely to concentrate on what my clients may bring especially if they were wanting to talk about their loved ones funeral.

If you have gone through a good programme you will have had to have a lot of counselling yourself. You have worked a lot on your shit and you have learned to compartmentalise it. You bring it in your own counselling or your supervision.

So on a way your dh is right. Everyone has their own shit. If your friends have trained in some reputable establishments they will have been taught how to reflect and work on their own shit outside of their clients counselling sessions.

@MrsSpoon79 noone can tell you how long you should continue to see her. What I will say is one say you will know you have reached your end or she will guide you towards it realising you have.

As a counsellor myself I've taken 3 years with of personal counselling even without a lot of trauma /issues its fascinating to work on your own parmtterns of behaviour.

Something that really jumps out at me on this thread is that there seems to be a bit of a double standard in terms of expectations of people in a counselling role. There's plenty of doctors, social workers, teachers etc who have shit going on in their personal life but in not sure anyone is saying that means they can't go to work and put their professional hat on and do their job effectively. So many people saying they wouldn't want to be counselled by a person they know- you know them personally not in a professional capacity and have no idea what they're like in that role. The opinions I have, feelings, worries etc I need to leave at the door on my way into work and I use supervision to help me do that. I don't need to do that in my personal life. This is in part why people don't counsel people they know personally. A counsellor should be as neutral a space as possible in human form. Also there's nothing to stop someone from becoming a counsellor and then something awful happening in their personal life unexpectedly. Like most other people, financially it's unlikely they'll be able to come out of work until that's resolved especially as some things are unresolvable so they'll have to go for their own counselling and use their supervisions for it. Counsellors are human too at the end of the day. But I do agree that there should be more diligence on the part of those bodies issuing qualifications to identify and manage someone's reasons for wanting to become a counsellor. The lack of this is why it's so important for prospective clients to do their research on who they ask to take them on.