Are all counsellors dealing with their own shitty situations too?

[Whybeacounsellor]

So my DP and I have been noticing a new trend amongst our friends which is that between 45 and 50 they quit professional jobs to retrain as counsellors. Fair enough in a sense that they are of an age to offer some life experience and wisdom because who wants to offload onto a 28 year old?

But what’s striking is that the four people we know are all dealing in their own lives with some mind blowing shit particularly with their families. Person one - son deals drugs and another son was accused of indecent exposure. Husband has been having a very obvious affair but friend won’t accept or admit it. Person two - 3 recent bereavements in a row, one of which was very unexpected. Person three - teenage daughter being brought home by police several times, been expelled, social has got involved. Person four - father caught shoplifting and has brought massive shame on the family because, he’s actually a local solicitor so it’s been very public and in the local paper.

DP isn’t much of a deep thinker and thinks that this is just normal life stuff and has no bearing on a their decision to go into counselling. I on the other hand am more cynical about their motives in changing careers now and think there’s something a bit voyeuristic about wanting to hear about the ‘dirt’ and sad, awful things in other people’s lives. I wonder if they use their job to feel better about their own experiences.

YABU - no of course not, they’re motivated by wanting to help others

YANBU - they are basically driven by a need to know that other people have shitty lives too

I have heard from my niece and a lot of young people in counselling that they have been encouraged to blame their parents for everything that goes wrong in their lives. My niece actually had to tell her counsellor repeatedly that she liked her parents and did not hold them responsible for her MH issues. Seems an easy way out.

Maybe they want an escape from their own problems and to concentrate on someone elses. To feel less bad about their own

It's an unregulated industry, and caveat emptor in terms of someone seeking a counsellor/therapist, which is often a problem as, almost by definition, the person seeking a counsellor is vulnerable or in need. The onus is on the person preparing to enter therapy/counselling to check the qualifications and experience of the therapist, as with an service you are preparing to pay for.

Having said that, of the counsellors I know fairly well (sister, friend, my own therapist, people I know via them), all have done at least a BA in Counselling and Psychotherapy, which can only be taken by someone who has already done a Higher Certificate in Counselling Skills and is over a certain age and has passed the equivalent of police vetting, and after that done a certain number of hours of practice before they are accredited with the national association for Counselling and Psychotherapy. Very few people who entered the BA with my sister completed it 'on time' -- as there was a requirement to do intensive therapy of your own as part of the degree, many people were required to pause their studies to deal with their own stuff en route.

I would say that the three people I know best who are counsellors of course have their own problems and vulnerabilities, but are aware of them, and unusually good at managing them.

I've never met a counsellor/therapist who wasn't a bit nuts in some way. I think that's a good thing as it helps them understand that normal comes in all sorts of interesting looking packages.

@CharlotteRumpling I take your point and there is a lot of that going on in counselling. On the other hand, my parent definitely has absolutely wrecked the lives of me, my dad, her sister and now she’s setting about my grandparents (her parents). She had counselling and from what she’s said it sounds like she just got a lot of oh dear there there you poor martyred soul. She also, in her words, gained the unique understanding that my grandmother might be a bit uptight and stubborn because she had an upbringing so horrendous that she won’t talk about it at all, has been a slave in a weird version of a 60s housewife situation to an angry man all her life and was brought up by her grandmother. Yep, I’d worked that one out by age seven or so. Counsellors are basically there to “listen” and oddly not to counsel.

IMO YANBU

The amount of people I know who are absolutely batshit crazy and have psychology degrees or have trained as counsellors is a shocker. Also worth to not that this is a completely unregulated sector with no safeguarding and no consequences. (BACP do not actually take action against counsellors registered with them unless it's the sort of thing you could actually go to the police about in which case, save yourself the effort and go to the police with your evidence).

The worst aspect I've noted is the superiority complex and the idea that they've got something 'sussed' which is blatantly untrue.

Also personally I don't get anything out of paying someone to sit and go 'hmm' 'yep' because they're 'active listening' counselling and not an actual therapist of anything.

Counselling / therapy IMO is possibly one of the biggest predatory scams going on in this country. When I complained about a counsellor to the BACP they begged me to lobby my MP for regulation of the industry.

There are professional therapists with rigorous training and supervision and who work to a specific style / structure that is aiming to bring about change within the client, usually working within specific types of clinics with their peers and superiors. They're hugely expensive and probably worth every penny because they're actually going to help and are also accountable.

Rubbish counsellors predating on the vulnerable, desperate, and needy IMO is nothing but vultures making a quick buck. And what are they offering? Nothing, there's nothing there.

Counsellors are basically there to “listen” and oddly not to counsel.

No, counsellors counsel.

In the UK, the terms 'therapist', 'counsellor', 'psychotherapist' are not protected titles and anyone can set themselves up as a therapist - including rapists, drug addicts, alcoholics, predators, profoundly mentally ill people, fraudsters and con artists.

Good to know in case one is ever skint huh.

https://www.exploreyourmind.co.uk/blog/counsellor-vs-psychotherapist#:~:text=Can%20anyone%20call%20themselves%20a,it%20isn't%20illegal).

Counsellors are basically there to “listen” and oddly not to counsel.

That is a really good point.

I have seen this from a number of counsellors, unending validation of feelings and no attempts to deal with the person in front of them’s own issues.

I posted earlier about a therapist I had who while very empathetic was all about changing the person in the room not the other people in relationships.

My own family was very toxic with abuse etc, whereas the first counsellor I went to was focussed on telling my family how they made me feel, which my family has strict rules about no one but our parents feelings mattering, that was a complete disaster because it did not at all acknowledge the dynamics within my family that led to the abuse in the family.

The good therapist was all about me changing and not expecting my family members to since they did not have the capacity to meet those normal human needs.

I see with another family member that after 3 years of intense therapy, she has done nothing but offload emotionally weekly. She has so many emotional issues but she also has a very controlling, enmeshed and codependent personality and there is so much she could change in her own life and her relationships outside of the family by addressing those issues but her focus in therapy is entirely outwards.

As someone else has said, the title 'counsellor' is not protected in the UK, so anyone can call themselves a 'counsellor' Or a 'therapist'. Untrained or unsupervised people doing this role could cause harm to their clients. Especially and particularly if they have unresolved issues of their own or less than ideal motives for doing the role. If you need counselling. it's safest to use someone who is BACP accredited.

A person who sets themselves up as a 'counsellor' / 'therapist' / 'psychotherapist' and who has absolutely no training whatsoever can also charge any fee that they wish.

So... if they're a total charlatan, they could be charging upwards of £120 p/h and targeting wealthy clients.

Even if they're not going for big money most counsellors / therapists are asking £50 - £75 p/h. And this is to visit them in a chair in the spare room of their house so they've got no overheads. Think about it. I could write a book on this subject.

I know someone who targets abusive married men in the corporate world - think CEOs and lawyers, doctors, etc - who are in trouble with their home life and not liked at work. When they're on six or seven figure salaries it's very easy to hook them into two sessions a week for £240 a pop to ease their conscience and also create a total emotional / psychological dependence. He sees them in a draughty cold shabby room down the back end of an outbuilding in a posh area, again little to no overheads.

BACP also means nothing unfortunately.

My therapist turned up raging drunk, falling over, slurring words and making inappropriate asides and bizarre comments. I immediately reported her as I was concerned for her own personal safety in the immediate moment, especially if she was having a massive relapse. I asked for them to do an urgent welfare check on her and for a supervisor to reach out to her.

Well there is no supervisor.

They wanted it all submitted in writing with 'evidence' to put before their 'panel' held at some point in the future to discuss if this was a 'legitimate issue' or not. Then if the panel decided it was a proven issue with evidence that needed them to take action they would 'discuss' it with her. When I expressed my dismay they said to please lobby the government for regulation of the industry.

Ughhh

Forget about it. I just ended my sessions of course and cancelled my direct debit. She (therapist) then sent a delusional and bizarrely worded beggy email saying I owed her money LOL. She'd obviously massively relapsed into a serious addiction. I'm absolutely certain she's still registered with the BACP and probably working (if she can even manage to).

@Yaros , some counsellors are there to listen and not to counsel. In fact the definition of counsellor is:- “a person trained to give guidance on personal or psychological problems”.

I can’t think quite which therapists I saw as a teenager (local authority and then privately) until I was 20 but they were listening therapies, which I found frustrating as I’d have appreciated guidance and/or not to feel like I was mad and with issues. When I broke up from a boyfriend and had bullying at work I had counselling with CBT which really helped me as I’m quite visual. That counsellor also listened, gave advice and asked for experiences and validated my upsets/stressed.

I’ve always seen therapist who’ve had some form of accreditation but as @LittleMissSunshiner says most people can set themselves up as some some of therapist whether it be life coach etc with only a short course taken, regulation in this area also seems sketchy at best. I’m not saying I’d never see a counsellor again but I’d be very wary with the experiences I’ve had so far.

I think it’s important to mention now that counsellors and psychotherapists in private practice and who advertise on the two big online directories - Psychology Today and Counselling Directory - have had to upload their qualifying certificate as part of getting on the directory.

some counsellors are there to listen and not to counsel.

Again, nope. All counsellors counsel.

There was a mum at DC's primary school who quite frankly I wouldn't have trusted with my pet rabbit ( borderline alcoholic, very odd and disordered relationship with the father of her single child whom she had at 43). She was employed by the local secondary school where some of the children had very significant issues. Really I should have reported my concerns. Her own daughter is about 14 now and totally fucked up.

I think many people go into the profession having experienced difficulties or poor mental health which they've been able to overcome or heal from due to having therapy themselves. Counsellor training involves doing a lot of work on yourself to understand why you are the way you. You examine your childhood, your relationships, your responses to others and uncover your own bias/prejudices. The aim being to grow your own self awareness, improve your relationships and enable you to better deal with your own challenges. No one should be a counsellor supporting others through this process before having been through this process of change it themselves. It involves being really honest with yourself, being open to honest feedback from others, and really examining why you may be responding in certain ways and doing lots of regular therapy. Any good counselling course will put students through a rigorous training process.

@Yaros , some counsellors are there to listen and not to counsel. In fact the definition of counsellor is:- “a person trained to give guidance on personal or psychological problems”.

From my reading of that definition it suggests that counselling involves actual counselling. I would suggest that actually it is more there are good and bad counsellors out there.

This isn't true.

There's a very well known two year part time counselling course run by a local community college in C Lon. I can't count the number of people I've known over the years that have taken that course. Thanks be to god most of them don't and have never worked as counsellors. It must be quite a good course also a quite a lot of them get 'failed' or told to take time out because they can't progress to stage 2 due to their own personal issues, which is a healthy thing.

But I've heard it time after time them saying about they're there to listen and basically they learn little phrases to repeat and affirm what the person has said 'so, you feel angry with your husband?'. The typical 'and how do you feel about that?' type counsellors.

But they're not allowed to interject with advice or ideas. I've had this kind of counselling myself, it's infuriating. I don't want to be listened to and parroted, I want suggestion, advice, ideas, solutions, points of view, that are coming from outside of my own (sick) thinking. But they're not allowed to do that.

One friend who trained like this and works told me when a person directly asks 'what should I do?' or 'what do you think?' she's trained to say back 'what do you think you should do?' or 'it's not what I think that matters it's what you think'. UGhhhh talk about someone keeping you stuck in the bell jar.

She charges £80 p/h for what it's worth.

But they're not allowed to interject with advice or ideas.

I don’t think it is about a counsellor giving their own ideas though, it is about moving the client through the venting stage in a session or how ever many sessions and then moving to the next productive part of the sessions where the client proposes and evaluates their own solutions to the issues. For example my therapist never advised me on anything, he mirrored back my solutions if that makes sense and tried to focus on what was in my control. There are a lot of the “and what do you think might be the possible courses of action you could take“ type comments. Then evaluation of those options, correcting thinking distortions along the way.

Should have said that all counsellors should be counselling. It’s a shit counsellor who only listens to the client. There’s a vast gulf between counselling and listening.

I know personally someone who’s an art therapist and I won’t detail her situation here because it’s very outing. I don’t see her much now as she was more of a childhood and teenage years friend and we lost touch later on in life but her own family background has been very dramatic and has damaged both her and her close family immeasurably. I’m sure she’s a perfectly good art psychotherapist (she’s moved on from art therapy) but knowing her background I’d maybe be slightly wary of engaging her and would require strict controls as to the therapy and anything she says to clients which may be relevant to her own experience.

Someone else also mentioned other types of therapy. Again I know someone from my teenage years and into adult years who’s had a lot of trauma from a young age and on her website considers herself to be a “natural healer”. She loves to talk too but has tried to sign me up for a free session of her therapy which involves life purpose, goals and challenges, this was after I reached out to her giving her forgiveness for bullying me at school. She basically wanted me to pay for her sessions and got quite abusive verbally when I reached out to her at another time to ask her a question and told me she’d “been very busy dealing with clients who pay a high premium for my sought after services”. What’s extremely worrying and dangerous is that someone like this person claims from their own personal experience to be able to cure themselves from a serious illness without medical intervention, which gives the impression to me that she can also do this for her patients.

I know a professional life coach who has her own successful business doing this for careers for a certain business sector so I know what a good life coach/career coach looks like and what a bad one or mediocre one looks like.

Ok other therapists employ listening therapy only. I don’t know the term for that therapy.

Well this is how it would work in a functional and helpful way.

Many counsellors / therapists don't go there. They want to keep you trapped in 'venting'. Venting has been scientifically proven to be addictive. I've read up on this and been to seminars about it.

I saw an excellent speech by Peter Fornagy on the subject a few years ago. Venting meets the same 'satisfaction' neural zones as using an addictive substance and it also now shown to be demonstrably unhelpful and even harmful in therapy to facilitate a client to vent.

Many psychologists and psychiatrists have written on the subject of therapists wanting people trapped in repeat custom, luring them for two sessions a week 'I have to speak to my therapist about this!' and going nowhere and keeping them for multiple years with no end in sight. I had a therapist once who told me she sees her clients all their lives. I was being funded by my local authority to see her. She was rubbish. I dumped her after three years as my mental health had descended into acting on suicide territory. Another one who then got angry and told her I owed her money (I absolutely did not and I even gave her some to shut her up and make her go away). Wow.

It's very common among addiction councillors to either have a history of addiction themselves or in their families. People see how talking therapy helped them and want to help others in the same way