To insist we review all outgoings before cutting cleaner’s hours?

[Rainallnight]

We are very fortunate to be comfortably off and I realise this whole post is a first world problem.

Our cleaner comes twice a week. DP and I agreed this when I returned to work after DC, on the grounds that she simply doesn’t see stuff that needs to be done and it would fall automatically to me.

DP works full time, is the higher earner. I work slightly less than full time and am with DC when not in work.

Our outgoings are too high, and DP wants to reduce the cleaner to once a week.

I think the cleaner looks like the ‘easy’ thing to cut whereas there are hidden costs that could equally be reduced. For example, DP is supposed to be in charge of dinners (planning them if not actually making them) and the planning and shopping is often bad, which means we end up with a lot of expensive M&S convenience food, and Deliveroo.

That’s just an example to show what I mean.

I’m worried that cutting the cleaner will add more drudgery to my life, and want us to do a proper review of outgoing first.

AIBU?

DP is very dogmatic about things and finds it difficult to have a reasonable conversation about stuff like this so it would be good for my thought process to hear others’ points of view.

I would suggest doing an audit of your last three month's spending. You can import most bank and credit card statements into Excel these days which should speed things up a bit. Break it down into the basics, Food, Fuel, Takeaways, Subscriptions, the cleaner, etc to get to the bottom of where you're overspending and take things from there. We've done this a few times and it can be quite surprising where you're spending all your money!

PS. I've been married for 27 years and cleaning rotas don't work and just cause arguments!

You have less of a financial problem, and more of mutually respectful, equitable relationship problem. That needs addressing more urgently.

That’s a fair point. I’m a single parent and have gotten used figuring out how to supervise young children while cooking, grocery shopping etc.

However, I also suggested to take it in turns. The Op has made it clear that they think that their Dp is not doing the meal planning, shopping and cooking well enough. It makes sense to help them out with that. When you are a couple, you help each other out and work as a team.

There are posts on MN where the partner who works longer hours does absolutely no household chores whatsoever. Which is not ok. That is not the case here.

@Sunshineandflipflops I’m a bit staggered too! When DM was younger and a single parent with a child with chronic asthma (downstairs rooms were non carpeted and needed to be vacuumed and mopped regularly) and she managed to do all her own cleaning, washing and shopping too as well as working full time as a teacher. And that was also in a large Victorian house, no tumble dryer as too expensive (she did have one when we were little but then a rat got into it when it wasn’t used…and my stepdad set fire to it in the snow outside, another story!). For years me and DB hoovered our own rooms and helped with housework and my nana (DM’s DM) offered to buy DM a dishwasher as we always squabbled over doing the washing up
but DM said no and refused this! We only got one when we were early teenagers.

We did a spreadsheet of our outgoings (we are also well off/lucky) and it surprised me how much nonsense was on there. Coffees/little shop trips was costing maybe £100 a month (I know that sounds mad, but it was actually only 1 or 2 trips a week), same for takeaways, lunches out etc. I had a bad Amazon habit and started getting kids clothes on vinted instead of expensive shops (same brands half the price), I also had loads of subscriptions I didn't use much (looking at your Paramount). It all added up to more than I thought. Equally I've never had (or even thought of) a cleaner more than once a week - this does seem a lot. Could you also write down all the jobs you each do, I know you said she doesn't "see" stuff, but could she just always do one/two jobs once a week like a cleaning rota. Also could you move the cleaners hours to get max benefit? Fridays are always best for me to get the benefit over the weekend, mid week I care less, maybe then once a week would do?

It does seem the obvious choice as twice a week is definitely a luxury. I have my friend clean once a fortnight and I really look forward to clean day so I can see why you’re hesitant to give it up. When you work and have young kids it’s tough to find the time. I voted you’re not unreasonable as I do think you need to review all outgoings and not just something that’s going to impact you. Agree hairdressers, food budget. Or look at what the cleaner drops, get her to focus on the jobs you dislike most. Twice a week is a lot, unless you have a huge house

There are loads of things I would cut back on before I reduced my cleaner's hours - because she make my life so much easier & better

I actually think the deliveroo and the meal planning are great examples.
The mark up on uber eats / deliveroo is insane (I work in grocery) and I honestly don't know how people can afford.
After years (decades) of trying to meal plan, I have finally cracked it over the last couple of months, I am truly staggered by the amount I am saving and my food waste is significantly reduced.

By the sounds of it, you are doing all the grunt work already so why should you just capitulate over the cleaner.
Definitely look at other expenditure before looking at reducing the cleaning hours.

@Sunshineandflipflops because DH and I work 9/10 hour days - sometimes out of the house for 12 hours, the house is 3,500 Square feet. The cleaner cleans for three hours one day: mopping hard floors, vacuuming carpets, cleans bogs and bathrooms and does an hour of ironing; the other day she dusts and wipes paintwork and does more ironing. 7 hours a week.

Also, we like living in a clean and tidy house and we don't like cleaning and don't have time to do it. We are early 60s and when I retire, I might cut it down and do the ironing. There is still the garden, cooking, laundry, shopping, maintenance bits to do.

I would ask @Rainallnight how big the house is and whether they have a spreadsheet not only of outgoings but of each other's time spent on jobs/domestic responsibilities. They need to be added to the working hours and the overall time time rendered needs to be equal. DH always worked a lot more than me when the dc were little (from 0 to 18) but our input as a team was equal.

The single parent argument is both a race to the bottom and also doesn't take into account that a messy/slobby adult can create more mess than a tidy/clean one. It's much less stressful to clean up after yourself and your children than after a lazy partner, and causes less resentment.

Switch to Octopus - savings done in one fell swoop.

OH you really need a comprehensive spreadsheet of all outgoings.

Mortgage, energy, council tax, water rates, cars, fuel, food, cleaner, Netflix etc That will give you a base line for basics. Then child costs,

all the above are joint payments

Hobbies, beauty, clothes etc and other fripperies come down to individual choice so are from your fun fund which is yours alone.

@Rainallnight how do you feel about the pp on this thread calling your dp lazy, a bully, etc. Is that a sentiment you share?

FWIW none of the lazy partners that I’ve ever come across do any of the cooking, meal planning and shopping, while holding down a full time job. And I would guess she does a bit more than that.

Just get a better paid job if you Can't afford a cleaner twice a week or cut back on other stuff. Can't be a lot of other cleaning if you have a cleaner twice a week.

But why the fuck should they clear up after another functioning adult?

Cleaning takes your time away- why your mother martyred herself and why you see refusing the help of a dishwasher as something to be proud of is beyond me.

Op, it is always easiest to cut back on things that don't affect you- yanbu to challenge this.

Why on earth are all these posters telling you how you should cut back. You haven't asked that question. OP has asked whether it's reasonable to request that her and her DP do a full assessment of their expenditure before one partner, in this case her DP, makes a unilateral decision about where the cut should happen.

It's impossible to say whether the best way to economise is the cleaner or the food shopping or their gym membership or their streaming services or their cosmetics bill.

The point is that one partner shouldn't be making unilateral decisions that affect everyone in the house without at least a discussion about it.

OP - tell her that you absolutely need to sit down and properly understand expensidutre and possible savings and that together you can then decide what should go.

There are different definitions of clean. It takes about an hour to do all the floors in my house; these used to get done daily. Then about an hour for three bathrooms and the kitchen.

I’d take over the meal planning, it takes a bit to get it sorted, I’m currently doing this and am planning to spreadsheet it somehow so I can pick meals and generate a shopping list. I’m planning a ten day menu that can be repeated three times a month but I can print off weekly shopping lists.

I’ve also worked batch cooking into my menu too so I am currently clearing out a drawer in my freezer that will only have home cooked ready meals. I’m hoping that by the end of January I will cook from scratch about four times a week and have freezer meals on other days where I’m busy and so putting on a pan of veg like broccoli and some others frozen veg will make for a healthy meal.

I am also not going to run myself ragged so I am currently purchasing one Cook’s meal (they have shops all over UK and freezers in all sorts of places, delicious but not the cheapest but not ridiculously expensive) a week to help me get this off the ground and I do buy Sainsburys pies and their nice taste the difference cauliflower cheese which I cook more cauliflower and add some cooked potatoes underneath and chuck a bit of cheese over the top and we have with sausages.

I’ve already noticed a saving in my shopping which for me it wasn’t about, for me it was fed up of being run ragged and eating crap choices and piling on the weight.

id love a cleaner, I may suggest once I’ve got this up and running using the money we’ve saved to get myself one. Thanks OP I hadn’t though of that 💐💐💐

Keep your cleaner. Put yourself in charge of organising a weekly online shop delivery. Savings right away. If your dh insists on cutting the cleaner draw up a jobs chart that gives him the toilets, kitchen surfaces, sink and floor cleaning.

@Rainallnight OP, I think the easiest way to deal with this is to take over the shopping. on average it takes me ten minutes to order the online shopping and cutting down on ready meals etc. Will save you quite a lot. cleaner twice a week when you have a child is entirely reasonable.

Keep the cleaner but take over responsibility for meal planning? It sounds like you have more time to do this in any case, and your DP obviously isn't very good at it?

I don't think the OP should take over the meal planning - she works almost as many hours as her DP - and it would leave the DP barely doing anything domestically.

Maybe worth swapping the meal planning/cooking for the laundry but not just doing it for her. Also sets the tone generally for their relationship - be rubbish at a chore, someone else will do it for you

Unless we know any specifics- eg working hours of both, size of house, number of DC, who does what in house- any suggestions are not likely to be seen as fair by both parties.
For instance, DH and I both work full-time, live in a 6 bedroomed house with 3 DC and we don't have a cleaner at all. We just share stuff out. We rarely get food delivered either. But if I said to OP you don't need a cleaner at all and stop getting takeaways and ready meals, there'd be an uproar. People are different.
The pair of them need to sit down and look at their spending and discuss it. 'High out-goings' suggests money could be saved in a few places.

Hmm, our combined total household income per year is £26K, family of 3, 3 bed house. We eat pretty much exclusively M&S / Waitrose food and have cleaner in 2x 2 hours per week - I'm guessing the OPs income might be a tad higher, so maybe the cleaner isn't where the money is going?

When you have some time - sit down with your bank statements and look at every expenditure - add it all up and get an accurate picture of where your outgoings are most - I have done this before on a few occasions and sometimes the results are not what you think.
For instance - your husband wants to cut the cleaners to once a week as he thinks this is a big expenditure - you think that deliveroo & m&s cost at lot - but do you know exactly what the expenditure is on these things.
Write down every monthly expenditure and you may find a surprise, something that costs a lot but you don't even realise - may not be the cleaners wage or the deliveroo ?

So your partner has to endure the drudgery of planning and making every meal, to allow you to avoid the drudgery of cleaning? It makes no sense.

Would the house fall apart if you had a cleaner once instead of twice a week?

If your outgoings are too high then you need to look at everything collectively. Every "nice to have" bit of spending to see where you can cut back with little impact. It's likely that neither of you will disproportionately bear the brunt of it that way.