To feel RAGE against schools lack of care towards working parents?

[Stormy900]

I'm so, so angry!!!!
I'm a working parent.
I'm a nurse, so I can't WFH.
Why oh why oh why do primary schools set ALL their plays and productions during school hours when I, and so many other parents I know, are AT WORK!!!!
WHY don't schools factor this in????
My DC has a Christmas performance coming up and it is really important to him and to me that I'm there, it would fill my heart with absolute joy to see him. But school only informed us of the date 10 days ago. I have requested to take annual leave to attend it, but it has been refused by my manager because there are other colleagues on annual leave that day who have already requested, and I've been told my request is too short notice, but I've only recently been informed of the date by school. I'm absolutely heartbroken to not be able to attend. If I'd been given much more notice, I could have attended.
Also, another issue is HOW LITTLE NOTICE schools give parents about dates for events that parents are invited to. Sports day, parents being invited in to see DC's work and class displays, summer shows, Easter performances, class assemblies where my DC have speaking parts, and of course Christmas events. The school tells us no more than 2 weeks in advance maximum. Why?????
In my job, A/L has to be requested SIX WEEKS in advance because of staff rotas.
And don't get me started on children being given award certificates in assembly each week, which parents are invited to watch and the teachers TELL THE CHILDREN THEIR PARENTS ARE INVITED....they invite parents on the afternoon of THE DAY BEFORE THE CERTIFICATE ASSEMBLY!!!!
On Monday, school sent an email to me at 3pm, which I didn't pick up because I was managing a blood transfusion for a critically ill patient, so I picked it up later that day, as I can't access my emails as soon as they come in if I'm working. The invite was for 9am THE NEXT DAY!!!
There was no way I could attend at this level of short notice, as I was due to be at work the next morning, starting at 7am.
My little DD cried and cried. She said she wanted me there more than anything.
I have missed sooooooo many primary school events for my 2 DC because of horrific short notice from school. If I'd had dates in advance I could have attended them all.
WHY do schools do this???
They MUST KNOW what dates they're going to do events on. I simply refuse to believe they don't. They MUST have to plan their school calendar, activities, shows, performances, awards, in advance.
WHY do they assume all parents are eithet stay at home mothers or are in WFH jobs??
I'm SO angry!!!

It’s because kids don’t (and often can’t because of parents who work evenings/ nights) come back for evening performances. So school choose to let all the kids take part and some parents not see it. Which is probably the right way round.

But it does suck. I’m a teacher so have never seen my DD do a school performance. Her grandmother goes instead.

I remember asking my sons primary school why on earth they only gave 1 weeks notice on things like this. They never could say why. I guess it was just disorganisation of telling parents things.

They had a meeting once to discuss parent issues and gave literally 3 days notice that it would happen in the middle of school day. I reminded them this is one of the problems and I could not get time off with such short notice. They didn't want parents to be able to go obviously.

I’m a teacher, I work full time and am a parent. I’ve missed loads of things. It’s just the way it is, unfortunately. It’s very difficult organising things in the evening as it means teachers working longer hours and lots of faff around getting kids there and supervised etc. it’s annoying but it’s just the way it is if you’re a working parent.

I think it is just the way it is. Schools do things during school hours. If you work, it is just part of the parcel that you cannot be there for many of these things.

I agree. As a working parent myself, it's a shame but I wouldn't expect the nativity, for instance, to be in the evening to cater for me and the other parents! I'm lucky in that my workplace is good about me missing work for major things like plays. I do agree that you should get more notice. Not about everything, but about the big stuff. We knew about the nativity date months in advance.

The issue is your particular school.

Some schools are simply not organised. I've been notified about most primary school plays a month to 3 weeks in advance minimum.

The only school that gave less notice was crap in other ways shown by a massive staff exodus at the end of the school year.

Schools can't win.

If they held the production at 6pm they'd get complaints that the little ones were too tired and it would keep them up too late. Plus teachers have their own kids to look after in the evenings.

Honestly, I appreciate you do an important job and have a very tricky shift pattern. But schools absolutely cannot please every parent. And as a former school governor, they are dealing with SO many other bigger issues, (lack of resourcing, families needing referrals to food banks, kids with SEND needs etc etc.)

Our school isn't great with notice either. I've brought it up a few times eg sports day, I was told they hold off to see what the the weather is looking like for the month of June rather than a specific date.

In NI the teachers have been striking but also working to rule, so parent teacher meetings that used to happen after school are now in school hours. I was surprised the Christmas show is on an evening this year I thought they might pull it back to the school day due to this.

Our school are ok tbh.

We don't necessarily know exact timings but in September they tell us all important dates up to Christmas with regular reminders in the year group newsletters. Then at October we get the dates for first half term to Feb, then at Christmas all the dates up to Easter etc.

Again not exact timings until closer to the time, but it does mean I can say to my manager "On the 12th December DD has her school carol concert, can I book the day off provisionally and then change my timings when I know when it is?"

Schools have events during school hours (mostly) because that is when the children and staff are in school together. It is unfair to suggest that teachers return at the evening or weekends for performances, although some definitely do do this.

However, your school need to provide you with dates much sooner. I would put this all in an email to explain that last minute notice does not work for you and the impact this has on you and your children.

Schools have your kids during the day to actually educate/child mind them and you want them to be available at night as well.

And who exactly is going to staff them?

I really feel for parents who can't make these sorts of events, and especially with the ridiculously short notice from schools.

Just for a different perspective to your other comment that few parents seem to work, I am self-employed and am lucky to be able to move things around the attend these events. What you don't see is that I'll be working all evening in addition to the remainder of the school day to make it happen.

Why do you assume that people that wfh can attend school events any more than those that don't?
I wfh, I also can't attend things if there isn't annual leave available on the dates requested and yes it's shit.
Working from home is still working.

It's unfortunate, but the alternative is to do it in the evenings, which involves the cooperation of the parents bringing their kids in to perform and caretakers staying late to clean up and lock up. Oh, and the staff doing more unpaid work. In the evenings more parents are available, so only one person per household will be able to attend.

If you put the shoe on the other foot: In the evenings, the siblings will not be in school and there is NO way they will fit in a school hall. This means there is going to be a struggle to find a babysitter, which could be hard for lone parents or shift workers.

I missed out on most of these things, it can't be helped. Husband managed to get to a lot of them and one year my kind MIL drove hundreds of miles to attend in our stead.

They can't win. If they put on a late performance, are you thinking maybe 6-7pm ish?, you would get loads of parents not bringing their children to perform in it, as it's too late and they have younger dc to put to bed.

With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I'd chosen a career that could work around children. I guess anything office/wfh/role that you can do part time but still be high on the ladder. But as it was, I didn't even think about it.

But if you work shifts and you're sometimes there at 7am, that must bring it's own benefits?

My son's school does assume it. They rang me to collect him one day for a non emergency bump and were appalled to learn that it would take me at least 45 minutes to get there from work. There was great concern and head shaking that there was nobody at home (presumably sitting waiting for the phone to ring) who could collect him within 5 minutes.

1. If you 100% sure that the school calendar page, events page, and newsletters genuinely have no events on them - an email to the school setting out your points, without ALL CAPS and in slightly different language might be in order. But only IF.
2. Lots of working parents aren’t nurses. Or firefighters. Many work remotely, hybridity and can operate with some degree of flex whilst working FT. So your situation possibly is not generalisable to all working parents.

I work full time, from home and can't just drop everything to attend my infant school aged child's school activities.

I do have the luxury of being able to go and pick him up (can be there and back in 10 mins). But I can't hang around for the PTA stalls, raffle, tombola etc as I need to get back to work.

I wouldn't have enough leave to go to every school event and cover holidays etc. It's just how it is. Bills need paying and I enjoy my career. I get to do other quality stuff with my child though. Both my siblings are teachers and are in the same boat with these things.

I'd really resent school plays/ sports days being after school or weekends. So many kids do out of school activities or have parents that work shifts/ weekends. It'd be really tough to organise for school and lots of kids wouldn't be available. Schools can't win! As others have said it's about communicating in advance though. Our school are good at that. Judging by the parents WhatsApp group - it's scary how many pay no attention to the school website diary, weekly newsletter etc.

I feel RAGE that you expect several teaching and TA staff to give hours of their own time for free and be away from their families for longer, and for schools to pay extra costs in electricity, heating and overtime for site staff just to accommodate you.

Your only reasonable gripe here is the notice period you're given about the events. Most people would have contacted the school about this and pushed for change rather than whinge on MN.

I was also nursing (over,40 years) I worked nights for this very reason, the last 30. Our shift eventually started at 7.30, I had a long driving commute,so if it was evening performance or open evening, we would swap shifts with one another. It's not the schools job to "care" for the parents. We had to book a/l 3 months in advance, but certain staff booked 9 months!

I agree with you about the notice. They should be able to plan school events further ahead. But the timings - teachers don't want to stay late, outside of their own working hours, to do multiple events. That's not unreasonable of them.

You can ask them to better at communication. They should know the dates for performances in Sept. So that is a very reasonable piece of feedback to give.

But also remember that teachers are not obligated to organise these things. They are stressful, time consuming and often extremely difficult with all the push back from parents who would do things differently. So don’t go in all guns blazing. I know of primary school now that don’t run trips and activités at all because of hassle from parents. Teachers in those schools have been burned too many times by trying to juggle all parent demands.

i walked my ds along with his sister and my ddog to his nursery, only to find there was a nativity that morning!
my poor ddog, and the neighbours, left barking outside!
it was some years ago but not an event i have forgotten.

I do agree there is a weird assumption that a parent is available at all times - if anyone should know that is not the case, it is a school.

Schools don't assume that at all. They simply schedule events in slots which are doable for the school and its staff, and they invite parents to them. They know that not all parents will be able to attend. That's life, I'm afraid.

We get the main dates at the start of the term with which year groups are involved.

Having said that I don't think schools can win

Put them in the school day = some will moan that they're in the school day because it doesn't fit their work patterns

Put them at the end of the school day = some will moan that they've got other children to collect, other school runs to do, clubs to get to for their children

Put it in the evening= some will moan that they've got other children to put to bed, it's too late for their DC to be out, they haven't got childcare, their older DC have clubs

There's not one solution that won't prompt moaning from someone.