Grandad's Pride is being read on milkshake on channel 5 - not acceptable! AIBU

[grandadspride]

Milkshake story den.

Why are we reading books about pride, gender and drag to pre-school children.

Same sex attracted people are lesbian/gay. They will always reject people of the opposite sex because of their biology regardless of their gender beliefs. If you are attracted to someone of the opposite sex, you are not gay. It’s not complex at all, unless you’re denying homosexuality and their right to label themselves as lesbian/gay on this bases alone. Or are we now slipping into TRA homophobia?

Some illustrations had elements removed for UK publication, iirc.

There was a 'furry' pawprint tattoo, and - was it the 'Love is love' slogan?

So the defence friends have given are

A) celebrities wear less on tv
B) go to any pride parade and you will find lots of leather bound people. This book is a fantastic way of introducing it to children so they aren’t afraid.

WTF?! No.

Sex is basically defined by what sexual organs you have, basically male or female, and a few people with conditions where it's unclear/they have been encouraged down one route. Sexual organs can be changed to look like other sexual organs, but they won't actually function as those.

Gender is more complex, in that it takes into account what you identify with - I am pretty sure the complexities of what makes most females feel female and most males feel male isn't completely understood, and thus what would make one feel the opposite gender isn't that well understood either.

It's a complex area but undoubtedly people who do feel 'trapped' in the wrong body exist and go through immense heartache coming to terms with it - all I also is that what accept people for who they feel they are.

Of course that comes with responsibilities and limitations (such as the debate around access to female spaces being limited).

I will say, again, that I do find the images in the book inappropriate - they are too sexual regardless of which body they are on!

Wtf.

Point it out then, the actual transphobia. The exact words in the OPs posts, quoted, that you think constitutes transphobia.

Skirting around all "well I know what it is, but you can't see it so I'm not telling you" is bullshit.

Pulling out "people have DSDs" argument is also bullshit however. Just because some people have a medical condition to do with sex development, it does not mean other people get to demand everyone else validate them as the opposite sex to what they actually are.

What I suspect you mean when you refuse to quote this transphobia is either you can't, or the example you provide would be robustly argued against. And as your arguments consist of "they exist" and "bigot" you'll do pretty poorly.

People can identify however they like. What they cannot do however is force other people to validate them. And if someone refuses, you cannot make them.

Boundaries have been pushed and pushed and pushed by the do what I say or I'll call you a bigot brigade. And now we're at a point where a kids book celebrating individuality and every type of body forced the author into leaving the industry (Rachel Rooney, My Body is Me) - while a kids book showing fetish gear and dodgy references is read out on childrens tv.

I was referring to other issues being complex, not who you are attracted to.

Another previous thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4878026-parents-remove-4-year-old-after-grandads-pride-book-shown-to-pre-schoolers?reply=128628880

@MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking the posts have been deleted. I have no wish to repeat what OP said.

I pointed out that the word 'biology' on it's own doesn't really say much. It has to be more specific because biology is an immense and growing field.

But… but… you said previously that you didn’t know what was said in the deleted posts, but it must have been really, really transphobic.

Why does it matter to OP what a person identifies as though, why does OP even need to keep calling someone something they are not?

Nope - biology covers it.

The biological reality is that human cannot change sex. Regardless of any other developments and advancements in a growing field - this is an immutable fact.

It's a complex area but undoubtedly people who do feel 'trapped' in the wrong body exist and go through immense heartache coming to terms with it - all I also is that what accept people for who they feel they are.

But it's a totally nonsense concept. You ARE your body. There is no such thing as the 'wrong' one.

No one should be compelled to lie to address what is being experienced, which is a complex mental and social problem.

People should get all the help and support they need - naturally. But that should not involve any suggestion that what people 'feel' they are should be indulged.

Any more than if they 'feel' they are Jesus Christ, a dog, Spider-Man, African American. Truth is key.

I know what OP's posts said and I know what I reported.
I said other posts had been deleted too and I didn't report those.

I didn't say I didn't know what was in OP's posts.

Your brain, feelings and emotions are as much a part of you as what organs you happen to have though.

Of course that comes with responsibilities and limitations (such as the debate around access to female spaces being limited).

Some people would call THAT transphobia.

If you have limitations for those that want to be seen and treated as female (so men) and they aren't given full and unfettered access to every female space going, they would say you are gatekeeping and denying their womanhood. 🤷‍♀️

Course not 😂

Correct, some people might.

Course not what?
True things - the posts have been deleted, I have no desire to repeat transphobia.
Not hard to understand.

Your brain, feelings and emotions are as much a part of you as what organs you happen to have though

They are part of your body, yes. Are you saying they are 'sexed'?

No, I am saying they are how we experience the body we are in. Some people experience their body as being 'incorrect' - we don't really know why that happens, or what may have caused this incorrect relationship/feeling.

Sex is basically defined by what sexual organs you have, basically male or female, and a few people with conditions where it's unclear/they have been encouraged down one route. Sexual organs can be changed to look like other sexual organs, but they won't actually function as those.

Oh nearly there but not quite right. Your biological sex can be observed by your organs but it goes much deeper than that. It’s why women can have blood tests when pregnant to determine the sex of the foetus. Intersex in humans still make you either male or female (if you have the Y chromosome you are male), though it’s true that underdeveloped organs can be an observation issue.

Gender is more complex, in that it takes into account what you identify with - I am pretty sure the complexities of what makes most females feel female and most males feel male isn't completely understood, and thus what would make one feel the opposite gender isn't that well understood either.

This is the crux of the issue - there is no such thing as ‘feeling’ male or female. Only the sociological impacts that are placed on us from birth. Pink and blue, dolls and muck, kind and sweet or rough and tumble. It’s all stereotypes that have built up to the point of ‘if you don’t fit into it, you must be a different gender. These literal visions of being the correct type of girl/boy mixed in with how some people take things very literally (remember how I mentioned how a huge majority of young trans people are autistic?) added in the new age of internet where people can encourage these stereotypes as gender affirming - it’s been a perfect maelstrom.

It's a complex area but undoubtedly people who do feel 'trapped' in the wrong body exist and go through immense heartache coming to terms with it - all I also is that what accept people for who they feel they are.

There is no such thing as a ‘wrong body’, especially when lucky enough to be born healthy. Yes mental health issues are absolutely awful, and no more so than for young people who are autistic or have suffered severe trauma in childhood. It is proven that they often have an absolutely awful time going through puberty and changing bodies. Transgenderism is an escape (especially for girls) but it’s not an actual fix for the MH issues that are never acknowledged with neurodivergence.

@sollenwir it's body dysmorphia.

Biology, as a word, isn't an adequate explanation.

Also, I am not arguing that we can change sex (as already stated) but there is no denying that some people feel their physical body does not represent how they actually feel/identify - we don't know why this is the case.