Grandad's Pride is being read on milkshake on channel 5 - not acceptable! AIBU

[grandadspride]

Milkshake story den.

Why are we reading books about pride, gender and drag to pre-school children.

Some people experience their body as being 'incorrect'

And they should get psychological help for that, because we cannot escape the reality of our bodies. And we do no one any favours by lying to them about that.

Sex is not defined by your sexual organs, it is determined by your DNA and chromosomes

I have had a hysterectomy, that does not make me not a woman, I have no ovaries but I will still be female until I die

The discussion about mental health problems and people believing their bodies are wrong is fascinating.
But it shouldn't detract from the subject of the thread - that even the youngest of children are being targeted with age inappropriate texts and images - including the fetish and paedophilic associations already referenced.
The challenge is for society to remove these people from influencing children. It feels almost impossible with all the useful idiots in the media abandoning safeguarding children in favour of fawning all over some very dubious influences.

There will always be that poster who declares that the cases of chimerism are proof that sex is not known by scientists and medical specialists though. It is really is enlightening to see the argument 'but science just doesn't know' being brought out. Despite the fact that there is nothing but theory to back up their claims. All the science so far has reinforced what humans have known forever. That humans are sexually dimorphic and sex is immutable, and some humans have ambiguous genital and sex organ arrangements but it still doesn't mean that those humans cannot be categorised as one sex or the other.

@Nonoatchristmas I am going to leave you with your opinions, because, you are entitled to have them.

With that I wish you a pleasant weekend.

And if a fully paid up trans women are women MNer popped up on the thread, called YOU a transphobe, and reported YOUR post for doing a transphobia, then what?

You'd correct your thinking and cheerlead them all in? Or argue your point about having limitations and responsibilities for female only spaces?

You have your line in the sand, which is what you would probably consider a moderate standpoint. The OP has hers, that sex is immutable and gender identity does not trump it. Neither point is transphobic. But if you insist on calling her a transphobe, then so are you.

Oh dear have I made some valid points in my last post that you have no comeback for? Absolutely no problem, have a good day yourself 😊

The 'love is love' slogan was blatant.

I was simply referring to the presence of external sexual organs as an identifier, apologies if you felt what I wrote was cruel - of course you are still a woman, regardless of ovaries (and I hope the hysterectomy was beneficial to you).

Of course our DNA is central to all of our characteristics (visible and hidden) - I will never cease to be amazed by DNA, and don't think any of us fully comprehend how much there still is to learn!

You've made points you feel are valid.

I'd accept that MN get the final say on anything we say here, even though I'd try to explain my view respectfully.

If you don’t validate my beliefs then are you phobic to my existence? Or can you determine when someone should be absolutely validated without question and when you can tell them ‘that’s nice dear but I don’t agree with your personal expressions’. Hope you’re not being hypocritical now…

Did you write that to yourself?
As I said, enjoy your day, there's more to life than randoms in MN and I am sure we might agree on plenty of other topics.

Fucking appalling that people are defending this shite!

I'm disgusted that children are being exposed to this. Absolutely disgusted.

"Gender is more complex, in that it takes into account what you identify with. I am pretty sure the complexities of what makes most females feel female and most males feel male isn't completely understood, and thus what would make one feel the opposite gender isn't that well understood either."

Does anyone else feel that there always seems to be something missing in discussions such as this where 'gender' is brought into the discussion and immediate 'gender' is limited to sex based descriptions? While neglecting completely the over 100 other 'genders'. That is transphobia there isn't it? The artificial limitation of the genders. I fully support ALL the genders being included in discussion because it really shows just how only a few genders are the focus these days.

This is bloody hideous. It's a fetish book for children.

teaching tolerance of all the colours of relationships does NOT require this imagery.

Boundaries have been pushed and pushed and pushed by the do what I say or I'll call you a bigot brigade. And now we're at a point where a kids book celebrating individuality and every type of body forced the author into leaving the industry (Rachel Rooney, My Body is Me) - while a kids book showing fetish gear and dodgy references is read out on childrens tv.

Posting purely to highlight what @MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking pointed out upthread - Rachel Rooney's lovely book encouraging children to love and respect their bodies was vilified and the author hounded. While a book with pictures of men in fetish gear and references to 'minor attracted persons' is read out on kids TV. No one will convince me that this is accidental.

Why has the trans issue overtaken a threads about a children’s book being used to promote imagery of fetish gear and paedophilia overtones?

The core issue with the book is that the male gay community have had to fight very hard against being tarred as paedophiles, and this book undoes years of work.

The book is actually incredibly HOMOPHOBIC despite its supposed story, yet I’m sure some parents would (wrongly) think that it was promoting kindness and acceptance.

what this thread does highlight is how utterly toxic the linking of the TQ+ with LGB is, and the homophobia of those pushing for trans rights.

Isn't it always the argument from bigots that homosexuality in men is just a perversion? Something the gay community had to fight hard against to show they are actually just normal ppl doing normal shit who happen to be same sex attracted. Normal jobs, normal families, normal pets. Just really ordinary normal people, not degenerate fetishists.

I get increasingly annoyed at seeing gay men (especially) be stereotyped BACKWARDS in media & this movement of absolute acceptance without question. It's so regressive & this book plays into that with its artwork.

Great post - as is the one from @Worldgonecrazy. The relentless erosion of boundaries and the toxic impact of "bring your whole self to work etc" and being "authentic" is becoming a cover for abusers.
As this thread demonstrates - if you can allege transphobia and bigotry, you can both derail and silence adults from speaking about safeguarding children.
If you can persuade Mumsnet that a thread like this shouldn't be on a main board but hived off to a feminist one, then ordinary parents lose the opportunity to safeguard their toddlers from a book like this.

Safeguarding children, respecting boundaries and the right to say no is everybody's business. We need to do more challenging of those pushing these safeguarding eroding ideas - even if at times it feels uncomfortable to be called a "phobic" . Thank you OP for this thread.

If you don't like what the science says you can always say "but we don't really know".

Of course we do already know quite a lot of different ways that people develop feelings of their bodies being the "incorrect" sex, but the knowledge doesn't fit the narrative around trans so (for the time being) that knowledge isn't being respected or used.

I say "for the time being" because there's a tsunami of evidence building up and it will sweep away the wishful thinking model. Too late for some though. The damage is being done.

I would suggest that the reason this book has been promoted so heavily as being an excellent resource for children is very much stemming from the same principles as the political movement that is attempting to use ideological premises to make comments about 'gender identity'.

Queer Theory is a great place to start. If you can lower societies boundaries, particularly around children, then you can make the currently unacceptable gradually acceptable. Look at how fucking long it took France to change their laws of consent back up to 16. And all the children harmed along the way. All because a group who considered themselves to be intellectuals and 'progressive' convinced the government in the 1970s to lower the age of consent. It took some 20 or 30 year old man raping a child in a park and declaring that child 'wanted it' in a court of law for them to finally do so though.

The issue becomes problematic when you get some people who police other people's words because they don't agree rather than entering into a discussion. Rather than asking questions and presenting evidence. The distraction tactics are nothing knew though. Once you recognise that some people have outsourced their critical thinking ability to social media influencers and are repeating tropish mantras or mindless phrases, those posters lose all credibility. Particularly if they cannot provide any evidence to defend their weak arguments.

Hear, hear to all of these points.

I have never heard of this book and have no intention of looking it up or reading it but on a point of principle I will be damned if I will see it, or anything else, cancelled.

I am from a generation that saw legal battles to end censorship. We do not need to see it reinstated by an unthinking younger generation under a new name.

You say "cancelled". I say "censored".

Quite right! Get that bondage and BDSM content in front of the toddlers for the sake of free speech!