Was we unreasonable to withdraw our child from a school church service?

[Dad0f1]

Hello everyone new member here just looking for some advice/reassurance that I/we've made the right decision regarding withdrawing our child from a church service at school.

So our DS who is our first child started Reception this September at our local CofE primary school and although neither myself or my OH are church goers we felt that this was the best school for him as the other practical nearby choices were a RC school or a two form entry state school which our DS would not have coped with.

And to be fair our DS has settled in nicely making lots of new friends and seems to be enjoying it however, the other week we was informed that the children would be attending a 'School Communion Service' in the nearby church that the school is attached to and not having a clue what this was I enquired with the Head of RE what the service entailed, how involved DS would be in the service and what was expected of him during the service.

As I suspected the service was in their words 'a simplified child friendly version of the Holy Communion Service' which would include bread and wine for those who were confirmed (as apparantly the children are offered the option to be confirmed if they wish in Y6) but the Reverend overseeing ther service likes to get the children involved so will offer all the children confirmed or not a wafer if they want one.
Also 'prompts' would flash up on a big screen at various points during the service to let the children know when to say 'Amen' etc.

Now to the reason why I/we chose to withdraw my DS from this service. Although the Head of RE made a point to explain that worship is voluntary at the school and that the children are free to take part in worship as much or as little as they wish. I very much doubt that children aged 4 or 5 can grasp the concept of this especially as they are at an age where they want to please the adults around them.
This is also made difficult for them not to be involved if they wish when they have 'prompts' flashing up on a big screen to help/nudge them into reciting a paticular phrase and when everyone around them is then repeating it parrot fashion.

Whilst we do want our DS to learn about Christianity we also want him to make up his own mind about whether to accept it or reject it in later life.
So AI/WBU to withdraw him from school church services that are being conducted like this or should I let him experience them bearing in mind his young age?

Protecting!

@FofB I agree, going to church I learned about different values and faiths. That helped me to be more tolerant and relate better to people who are religious. It's important to be able to do that in a polarised and fragmented society.

Why are you so afraid of your DS being given a bit of wafer? What do you think will happen? Will he be suddenly converted? Hear a choir of heavenly angels singing in his ear?
I read your update and you still sound as unreasonable as in your OP.
If you don’t believe in any of this then you also surely s

Whilst we do want our DS to learn about Christianity we also want him to make up his own mind about whether to accept it or reject it in later life.

What makes you think he won't?

Listen, I went to a full on Catholic primary and senior school and attended church with my parents until I was about 12 and old enough (in their eyes) to choose.

I made up my own mind, all of my friends have also made up their minds.

You're not making any sense.

I have read your post OP and YABU

You DS is little - to him it's just soemthing that 'everyone else is doing'. He is not going to be radicalised - just experience a taste of christianity. He is in a CofE school and Church will be a feature throughout his time there. If you start withdrawing now, you are setting him up for missing out on things every term.

My DC went to a CofE school for similar reasons to you. They joined in with all the churchy bits, did Christmas Carol concerts, said prayers before lunch and drew pictures of Jesus at Christmas. And whilst this was a small part of the overall school experience which was mostly 'neutral' and inclusive (they recognised diwali and other religious festivals) but mostly did normal non-churchy trips/fun/plays/school disco etc - they enjoyed the church stuff and actually found the ethos around kindness/friendship quite comforting.

They are teenagers now and not in the least bit interested in church - i dragged then - eyes rolling - to carols last christmas but neither of them are planning on becoming priests! Just let him join in.

At a faith school the children will not just learn about, but practice that faith.

This school was not your only option; it might not be your ideal school but you prioritised school size above whether it was a faith school. Own your choice.

As for him "understanding" the service, it sounds from what you've said that the younger children will be offered "a wafer", not an actual communion host, in order to join in. What do you think is going to happen if he eats a wafer? Why make this a tense thing? For your child it will basically be like a big assembly; all the baggage is coming from you. As with most things, children notice and remember the completely random stuff that we adults hadn't even considered - his big takeaway might be "the chairs were blue" or "Freddie bumped into me when we were going in and then Molly laughed and Mrs Smith shushed her" or "the vicar's voice sounded like Daddy Pig".

My 2 DCs went to a CofE school. 1 believes in God but doesn't have any particular involvement in religion as such. 1 is an atheist.

I am an atheist but I sometimes go to church as it's an uplifting experience.

Learning about religion is an important part of education, it doesn't mean you have to practice that religion. It would be a good opportunity to start having basic discussions about how people believe different things.

Pressed post too early…
… if you don’t believe in any of it then you can’t possibly believe him experiencing a church service will affect him one way or the other, except to help him understand what goes on in a church service.
I’d see it as a learning experience. Talk to him afterwards and see what he thought. Discuss other forms of religion. The school are doing you a favour; helping him see what it’s all about without you having to lift a finger.

Yabu, let him join in and experience it. As you said, given his young age he won't understand and it'll just be a bit of singing, saying amen and a bit of bread. He'll decide what, if any, religion to follow when he's older.

I’m Muslim, I went on all the offered religious school trips in primary school. I ate the communion wafer in church, I ate the langar in the Sikh temple etc.

I’m still very much Muslim, but have friends from all religions.

I think you're being unreasonable and probably overthinking it. I went to Catholic primary and secondary schools. In primary school I remember not really caring either way about religion....a church visit was a fun trip out of school with friends singing hymns etc. In secondary school I got quite bored of it all and questioning the religion, but I think by year 8 or 9 we were allowed to chose whether we went to mass.

I also remember there were a couple of non-catholic children at my school, they attended the services but just didn't get communion. Is this something you could discuss with the church so he doesn't miss out on the experience?

Atheist here and I would let my daughter go. Best way to learn is to experience, which I gather you agree with. You say you don't want him to be part of something that 'means something' ie the communion service but I would argue that as he doesn't understand what it is (which you say yourself) then it doesn't mean anything. To him he'll be eating a cracker and saying Amen. Which means absolutely sod all unless you believe.

YABU

If you are willing to send your child to a school of faith, don't start cherry picking out the bits they can and cannot do. You'll confuse them. They'll be wondering what happens "behind the doors" and make it worse.
If you are not happy at any of tha faith elements, remove them from the school and let a family who are happy with the school to go there.

I wouldn't have done the same, but I don't think you're unreasonable. You're allowed to withdraw them for this very reason.

Yep, I think YABU. Are other kids left out? What does dc do when the others are in the service?

I can read fine, thanks

He won't learn if he doesn't participate

It's the school's ethos. You sign up to it or you don't go

Why won't he cope in the two-form entry?

Totally up to you and your ‘line in the sand’, so to speak. If you don’t want him offered a communion wafer and think he’s too young to understand, it’s within your rights to withdraw him. Other people will have different opinions but there’s no right or wrong on this, it’s all just subjective depending on your own principles and views of religion.

Personally I think the kids singled out to not go when it’s a whole-school event miss out and feel ‘othered’, and that’s a shame as it’s always their parent’s principles but they’re not the ones living them, their kids are paying a price not them. But that’s just my opinion.

It's a church school, what exactly were you expecting? You'll do him far more harm pulling him out an making him feel different.

Agreed. OP wants the child to have the benefit of attending a faith school, but without full participation in the life of the school. If it's a problem for the OP, it's better to organise a transfer to a non-denominational school sooner rather than later.

He's four i doubt he's capable of reading amen let alone having any comprehension what it means. He's not going to remember this particular service in a week or two let alone the rest of his life. Even eating a wafer isn't going to magically influence his later beliefs. If you're that worried about what overhearing other kids repeating amen to him will do aren't you worried that every time he hears someone talking about Christmas they are referring to Christ's mass? Slightly hypocritical....

On the other hand being the only kid to have to sit out will make him feel ostracised if the others come back altogether having sung songs etc not to mention probably highlighting you to the staff as "those parents" for the next 7 years.

If you deliberately send your kids to a religious school you shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose which elements you follow.

YABU. You had a choice about sending him to a Church school, and now you're moaning that it's religious.

My DC attended a CofE primary as we lived rurally and it was the only school. So no choice. You'll be relieved to hear they are now both atheists.

People are all telling you that you're bring Unreasonable but you're not listening.

But the best way to learn is by seeing so you are removing the learning opportunity.

your son is 5, so just let him join in with the class. He can choose to opt out when he is old enough to make the choice himself. Right now you are saying the choice should be his so then why are you trying to make it for him.

I dare say that withdrawing him - especially a reception age child! - from such things, will only make him very eager to know what he’s missing.

My dd and SiL are not remotely religious but Gdcs attend a very good C of E primary, and they’re never made to feel different by being withdrawn from anything.

Most of us who are older will have had daily school prayers and hymns etc. as a matter of course, and we still managed to make up our own minds as to what we did or didn’t believe, certainly by the early teen years.

And BTW, I sincerely hope that the ‘was’ in your title was a typo.

YABU.

You chose the church school. There were other options.

Was that necessary?