Was we unreasonable to withdraw our child from a school church service?

[Dad0f1]

Hello everyone new member here just looking for some advice/reassurance that I/we've made the right decision regarding withdrawing our child from a church service at school.

So our DS who is our first child started Reception this September at our local CofE primary school and although neither myself or my OH are church goers we felt that this was the best school for him as the other practical nearby choices were a RC school or a two form entry state school which our DS would not have coped with.

And to be fair our DS has settled in nicely making lots of new friends and seems to be enjoying it however, the other week we was informed that the children would be attending a 'School Communion Service' in the nearby church that the school is attached to and not having a clue what this was I enquired with the Head of RE what the service entailed, how involved DS would be in the service and what was expected of him during the service.

As I suspected the service was in their words 'a simplified child friendly version of the Holy Communion Service' which would include bread and wine for those who were confirmed (as apparantly the children are offered the option to be confirmed if they wish in Y6) but the Reverend overseeing ther service likes to get the children involved so will offer all the children confirmed or not a wafer if they want one.
Also 'prompts' would flash up on a big screen at various points during the service to let the children know when to say 'Amen' etc.

Now to the reason why I/we chose to withdraw my DS from this service. Although the Head of RE made a point to explain that worship is voluntary at the school and that the children are free to take part in worship as much or as little as they wish. I very much doubt that children aged 4 or 5 can grasp the concept of this especially as they are at an age where they want to please the adults around them.
This is also made difficult for them not to be involved if they wish when they have 'prompts' flashing up on a big screen to help/nudge them into reciting a paticular phrase and when everyone around them is then repeating it parrot fashion.

Whilst we do want our DS to learn about Christianity we also want him to make up his own mind about whether to accept it or reject it in later life.
So AI/WBU to withdraw him from school church services that are being conducted like this or should I let him experience them bearing in mind his young age?

I think you’re getting a bit of a hard time OP about choosing a Cofe school. We live rurally and all the local village schools to us are Cofe so it’s not always down to choice.

Having sad that I do think withdrawing him was a bit OTT. Our school does a lot of ‘church’ based stuff and go for services a few times a term but we treat it as much about learning about other religions and values. We’re atheist and have told the children different people have different beliefs and by all means learn about them and they should respect it but they don’t have to believe and explained to them about other view points. The school also do a lot of events around other religious events too such as Diwali.

I think letting him attend would help him learn and while he may participate it doesn’t force him to ultimately believe. My eldest is now in year 6 and despite all the visits is an atheist

We chose a CofE school and are both devout atheists. We chose it because it was still possible to redress the balance of any teachings from school.

By withdrawing your son you have removed the chance of having an informed discussion with him and presenting the alternative points of view.

It very unlikely he’ll be indoctrinated by school if you can be there to provide a balanced argument.

I think you're overthinking it.

I went to our village CofE primary, was even confirmed (because my friend was doing it ) and regularly took communion, but it has made zero difference to my life.

I would have been more affected by missing out on trips the rest of the class went on and being made to feel different. Memories like that often stay with you.

Why are you asking if you were reasonable? You have made a decision and have the right to so. As someone who attends church and helps fundraise it is frustrating that you choose to take up a place but only want certain parts of what the school has to offer. Hopefully you didn't misrepresent yourself when taking the place and hopefully your school isn't over subscribed.

Our children made a choice which we honoured. One is confirmed and one choose not.

Do you know what your son will be doing whilst not taking part?

You ar being ridiculous and unreasonable. Don't send him to a CoE school if you can't cope with him being taken to church services. And "only three" schools as an option? Hahahaha - you are having a laugh as a lot of people would KILL to have that sort of optionality.

You do sound precious also with your "he wouldn't cope" with a 2 form entry? Why on earth not?! That's a perfectly normal, relatively small school size.

PS I went to catholic school. I am not catholic. I attended so many church services I can still take part in any catholic service without even thinking about, and my parents never worried I was going to be indoctrinated or didn't have the chance to make up my own mind. Get over yourself.

YABU for not realising that sending your kid to a CofE school would involve the odd churchy activity tbh.

My parents are atheists and so am I, but I still went to church services with my C of E school throughout my primary years and my secondary school included hymns and prayers in assembly. I could recite the Lord's Prayer, Psalm 23 and the last verse of St Patrick's Breastplate right now. I'm still an atheist and always have been.

If you send your child to a church school, this will happen. We had Jewish and Muslim kids at my school who also took part in all this stuff. Eating a communion wafer and saying amen int he right places doesn't make you a Christian. It'll be fine. He's learning.

Let him attend the church services.

Yup. The OP seems to think that he had no choice - the C of E school is the 'best of three' - but if he's complaining about the religious aspect now, then he has a choice - the larger non-denominational school.

YANBU for withdrawing your child from any lesson or activity you don’t agree with, but I do wonder if you should consider whether this is the right school for him if you feel this strongly. A church of England school is always going to expose pupils to Christianity; if you are very keen to avoid that, you ought to consider a secular school.

Was we?!

Deary me the English language is dead isn't it.

lolz - i was brought up catholic - went to a very catholic school -i didnt understand anything that was going on at the church, didn't grasp the meaning of communions or confirmations - just was happy to do them because i got time off school and people gave me money - it was all pointless and none of my group grew up to be very religious - most of us are atheists since teenagers - wouldn't send my child to a religious school tbh as i think its all nonsense

but if it was my only choice id just go with it and know that it was pretty harmless and unlikely to cause any harm or make him a devout Christian or anything

Yep.

I believe that religion has no place in education.

How true.

I went to a boarding school where attending Sunday service was compulsory. That gave me plenty of time to work out why exactly I couldn't believe in it at all.

That said, I find the concept of faith really interesting and I would want my children to learn about it and about worldwide faiths generally.

For God’s sake, just let him go to the service! If you want him to make up his own mind, this will be part of the process of him doing that.

Little kids hate being marked out as different from their class mates, so just let him go.

Christianity is not a virus one catches from church!

God almighty, why would you let your child be excluded like that? You’ve sent him to a church school, if you are so against it that you’d allow him to be the only one not taking part you shouldn’t have sent him there in the first place.

So you've put him in a "better" regious school to reap the benefits as it suits you but you're pulling him out of the religious bits?

Do you think it's in your sons best interests to be continuously pulled away from his friends and having to explain your hypocrisy as the gets older?

very puzzled how you want him to make his own mind up
then won’t let him find out what it’s all about

you do realise you sent him to a church school

OP, I'm an atheist, and wouldn't want DD taking communion at school.

Which is precisely why I sent her to a non religious school.

Learning about religion is what happens in a non religious school. (apparently, didn't stop 5yo DD announcing she's a Christian because 'Mother Clare' the local vicar had been in the school telling them they all were!)

Actively practicing religion is what happens in the type of school you've chosen. It'll be in lessons and assemblies too, not just trips to church.

You either need to decide is this a deal breaker to the point you withdraw him from the school, or if you can live with him being taught something you consider untrue, to keep him in a school you consider the best for him.

You can't enrol in a Christian school and then not want them to teach Christianity.

I rather think taking communion is quite a big deal. Although I don't think it will have any affect on the OP's child. I was raised in the Church of Scotland but I am now an atheist. I have visited plenty of other churches and synagogues/mosques/temples, including taking part in services, but there are parts of a service I wouldn't join in - so I sing but don't pray nor take communion. Perhaps if you are raised CofE communion is more commonplace?

The visit would have been a nice off-site learning opportunity and he's missed that. He wasn't going to be radicalised. But he might have observed a faith being practiced, learnt about sitting quietly and showing respect, learning new words and their context, how to travel nicely with other children and follow instructions from the teacher... etc etc etc, there was a lot more to it than religion.

Will you pull him out from visiting the local mosque or temple in future?

You say you want him to learn about Christianity but you have denied him this by withdrawing him from the activity. In a way, you have imposed your beliefs and denied him from making an informed choice (although he's only 5 so...). If he went, but didn't enjoy it, you could then say he didn't have to go back, but not to go in the first place is a bit odd considering he attends a CofE school and this will be a recurring practice no doubt.

I sometimes think that parents can obsess over having "no religion" applied to their children, but miss the point that it is still a learning experience and teaches children about being good people, looking after others, thinking about community etc.

YABU.
Both my kids went to the local village school, which is C of E, and quite heavily involved with the church. At that age they made it fun - the vicar was friendly and jolly, she told them stories, it was all very light-hearted and age-appropriate. They’d walk in convoy to the local church every so often, to celebrate whatever Christian event was happening at the time. Sing songs, listen to bible stories, do readings etc. My kids just enjoyed the change of scene.

My family are all atheists. I’d describe myself as agnostic. I told my kids they could believe what they wanted to believe, but should always be respectful of the beliefs of others. Independently they are both atheists now, in their teens.

I think it’s way OTT to remove your child from a Christian ceremony, which will probably all be quite fun, and a pleasant change from phonics!

we are NOT withdrawing him from EVERYTHING religous just certain services that offer him a form of communion that he has no concept or understanding of what is being offered to him yet.

Communion only means something to people who understand the religious significance of eating the wafer. It is precisely because your child has no understanding or belief that this is a non-issue. They are not doing anything irrevocable by giving him a wafer or prompting him to say Amen.

FWIW I hold very strong atheist beliefs. My child goes to an independent school which doesn’t hold itself out as C of E and doesn’t include religious practice in its teaching. However it does have a chapel and and a chaplain and his class were taken there one day and given wafers. (He was 6 at the time). We weren’t told about it in advance so no option to opt out. His class includes children from Jewish, Muslim and Hindu families, they all went too. He saw it as no different to when they lit Diwali lamps or played with a dreidel.

Probably one of the most unreasonable posts I have ever seen on MNet.

It's a parent's responsibility to equip a child with sufficient information to make an informed choice. No doubt your child will grow up saying they don't like Chinese Food without having tried it.

First communion is an invitation to learn, confirmation is when a child feels they wish to accept God as part of their way of life.

Notwithstanding the fact you chose to send your child to a CofE school. Hopefully a school where they will learn to construct grammatically correct sentences.

The replies look perfectly aligned with the question you asked as far as I can see, it’s just that you don’t like them. You chose a C of E school when you could have chosen a secular one. You are entitled to withdraw him from participation in religious services if you want but I think that you’d have to feel very strongly to be that precious about it, which then leads back to why you made the choice you did given your very strong views on the subject. Makes no sense unless you a) think you have a point to make or b) you’re generally a bit of a stirrer/pain in the arse. Also why join up to post on here about it when you’ve already done it and are defensive of your decision - refer to b) above.