To ask DH not to go for promotion?

[NCforthis235]

Sorry for long thread but there is context and don't want to drip feed.

DH is a teacher and has recently had a "tap" to apply for HOD job at his school for next September.

I am the breadwinner (earning c.5x DH's salary) but there are elements of his job which contribute massively in financial and non-financial ways (huge discount on school fees, DH does all childcare during school holidays).

I am pregnant with DC3, due in the spring and have made big sacrifices for him to pursue his teaching career. I went back to work after 3 months with DC1, and 6 weeks after DC2 because he was doing a degree and teacher training so I needed to earn. I have stayed in my current job longer than I would otherwise have done because the flexibility is amazing, but I have to do a night away a week from the kids and a long commute either end. Whenever the kids are sick during term time, it is me who juggles as his job is less flexible.

We are finally settling into a routine but I am stretched/often struggling. I do school drop off and pick up 2x a week on my WFH days (plus on my day off - I work 80%), spend a couple of hours with the kids then finish my work day once DH is home from school. It's working, but it's not easy.

The HOD job would involve him moving from 80% to full time as well as significantly more admin to do before/after school. Which ultimately would involve us needing a nanny for an extra day (which would more than eat up the pay bump for him) and add significantly more strain on me when I already feel like I'm just getting by.

He also wouldn't be able to take shared parental leave as we had planned for Christmas term next year. I've said I think we should just focus on stability during the early years and spending as much time with the kids as possible, and that the HOD is likely to come up again at some point. Once new baby is at pre-school, I am likely to want to look at different job options which would be made a lot easier if DH just stayed where he was for a few years. He's saying that we both worked hard and sacrificed a lot for his career and that he now wants to climb the ladder and start taking some of the financial load off of me. AIBU?

You make so much sense!

You both have a right to pursue your careers. If he earns more, you can earn less so not fair to say he can’t progress because you earn more. If you earn 5 x a teacher salary you should be able to reduce your hours and live off less…would still be more than most.

In my experience, those claiming HoDs stay in post forever are not quite up to date with how things are in teaching these days.

HoD posts are middle management, not SLT. HoD responsibilities also take up a huge amount of time for not a massive amount of extra pay. It's probably the most thankless and overworked job in middle management and not one you'd want to stay in for too long.

Perhaps ten years ago you'd find HoDs who would stay in the post until retirement. But not anymore. For many people, it's a job they'll do for a few years before moving upwards, going back to the classroom or leaving the profession entirely.

Many of the top independent schools have advertised for HoDs for my subject multiple times over the past few years. HoDs in independent schools are expected to be ambitious and want to move up to Assistant Head within a short amount of time, and it is these sorts of people who are attracted to the role.

I can guarantee that the OP's husband would have the chance to apply again in his current school in two or three years' time and that would probably be the more appropriate time to make the move.

You really can't have it all and acting as if this is the only opportunity the OP's husband will ever have to better his career is both misguided and creating stress at a time when it's not needed in her and her husband's lives. There will be other chances to be promoted. It really doesn't have to be now.

It is in the first post. As a part time teacher at this specific school, he brings home a significant reduction in school fees, easier way for the children to get in, and having school holidays off. If we give those benefits a monetary value, he is bringing home quite a lot (and counting from this base, the potential pay rise isn't really that significant)

Exactly the question I was going to ask! Why have a third when things are just beginning to fall into place with your two getting a bit older. Did you not take into account him going for promotion and the impact a new baby would have on all the fine tuned arrangements?

Sometimes it's not about the money though, it's about job satisfaction and if your DH can hack it as a HOD then it seems a shame to stop him going for it. When you're happy for him to go for it in the future who knows where he could have been? Maybe you need to get a live in nanny and use up all the extra cash, and more perhaps, just to make it work. Once Number 3 is at school it will become easier.

I cannot disagree with your reasoning, it is quite sound. My concern is, quite often turning down a promotion, especially one that comes at a crucial junction, may move your husband to the bottom of the list for future promotions. It isn't fair, but it happens far, far too often. So do take that into account, both of you.

Really ?

The head at our independent school is on more that £250k plus add ons and the head at the non fee paying local school (was best in the country) is on a similar package.

I'm assuming he makes £40k or so and you;re on £200k ?

Just seen you;re financial breakdown and that you're some way short of £250/300k.

You need to consider swapping out the part time nanny for a live in.

The wrap around additional help does come at a cost of some privacy but if you have space to accommodate then you win massively.

I'd be more concerned about your husband losing the Saturday morning really.

Also, and don't take this the wrong way, you really don't earn enough to have 3 kids in private school and that desire will suck you dry financially for the next 20 years.

I'm just finished paying about £35k fees a year plus the additional £5k to £10k a year for trips and other "essentials" and that is about £67k of pre tax income. Triple that and you're talking about requiring £200k of pretax income just for school.

Invest £100k+ as an alternative and send the kids to a good but free alternative and they have millions each in investments to start their lives.

Just throwing it out there.

Equally, the cost means you are forever tied to work, your pensions and investments of your own are weak (I don't see 2 x £20k into ISAs each year ?) and if your husband wants to move higher up at another school, you are moving house or losing the discounted school fees.

It’s a really tricky one - I also have three young children so I know the challenges that come with that. I currently work full time, and my husband works part time to make it work, but it’s still tough.
I do think, though, that you do need to recognise the privileged position you are in - you earn a vast salary whilst working part time, partially from home, in a flexible role that allows you to spend time with your children. I know you describe yourself as ‘cruising’ and desiring more but you sound like you have a dream scenario. Are you really going to find something that is better than that while you have young children? It also means you have the money to find an excellent childcare solution so that your husband can pursue his career goals.

On a side note, what field do you work in? I’m a teacher, like your husband, (and so is my husband) and always wonder about these amazing private sector roles that people have! 😂

If your outgoings are too high to afford more childcare then perhaps you should consider reducing them.

Start with moving child to state school & save the school fees.

I'm in finance. Sold my soul for 7-8 years to get senior enough to have the flexibility I have now and have then stayed constant for 6-7 years. Not unusual at all whilst having children but to stay where I am for another 5+ years would make it a lot more difficult to move in future.

DH's "earnings" taking into account the fee discount once kids reach secondary, plus no childcare costs in the school holidays, are already pretty close to mine.

We have a lovely work life balance and don't struggle financially, although the recent doubling of the mortgage payment has made things tighter. I'm still struggling to understand DH's desire to take on a tonne more work, for little to no financial benefit and significant cost to me and the kids. But ultimately it's his prerogative.

We have never wanted two "high flying" careers and for our kids to spend all their time in childcare. It just wasn't our priority. He had always been happy to be the "secondary" career for want of a better word, but he loves teaching/education in a way that he has never loved another job so it's completely understandable that his head is being turned by the opportunity to move up.

I don't know how realistic it is to switch focuses at this stage and for us to indefinitely prioritise his career progression in an effort to get him into one of the very highest earning parts of the sector. He'd presumably need to put in the hard yards as I did, but at a much greater cost than it was for me in my 20s. Financially, it makes no sense as the earnings potential in my sector is much greater than even the top of his. That's not the be all and end all, but it has to factor.

since you started the thread, have you actually spoken with him?

You had said you were going to support the promotion and get an extra nanny day?

I'm still struggling to understand DH's desire to take on a tonne more work, for little to no financial benefit and significant cost to me and the kids.

have you asked him? what’s been his response? Presumably career satisfaction? future career prospects? future proofing? sharing the financial burden ib ten event something happens to you?

I understand why you would be thrown by this however do think it would be wrong to ask your husband to step aside for this. The money paid to your parents is in effect a childcare payment, covering their expenses however you are paying a significantly higher sum to your in laws to supplement their income with apparantly nothing in return. Seems to me that a simple solution would be for your in laws to cover the extra childcare needed - if they can't, increase the nanny's hours and use the money you currently pay them.

I would read your last update, from the voice of a well-earning husband who wants to deny his wife a chance to rise in her career… it is funny how to gender difference changes things!

Agreed. If the OP were a man talking about his wife, she would get torn apart for saying what she has said.

But why? It’s basically her picking up the flack and having to sacrifice? Her husband wants to develop his career later on and she facilitated that, she’s the one picking up the flack whilst also been the breadwinner and funding his parents by the sounds of it. It sounds like they’ve had an agreement with shared paternity pay etc and now he’s going back on that but not giving a feasible solution?? Why should op be the one having to think about how it all works?

Sounds like he’s moved the goal posts there…he’s probably panicking that he won’t get another opportunity like that, but assuming he’s got another 20 or 30 years to work he’ll have plenty of time to climb the ladder!

This is great advice - worth seeing if the school are open to compromise. Fully agree with the position the school are in. Some SLT are really against part-time HODs for no good reason, but even so, perhaps tutor group and Saturday mornings could be negotiated. It could be framed as he’d like to apply, but…

And yes, there will be other opportunities.

Coming a bit late to this but I just wanted to say you sound like you are doing brilliantly. You’ve also spent time planning so whatever conversation you eventually have has a strong basis.
We have 3 kids, 2 careers - husband a doctor so he’s the higher earner though I had a high paid high profile job. (Fully time nanny) Ultimately, my job had to go to keep us on track as a family. (Just our decision) and I carved a freelance career which worked well for the family. I’m now running my own business and DH is semi-retired so I am getting a lot of support back from him. Mine was a big sacrifice at the time but I just parked any resentment as ultimately without DH’s career, my children and I would not enjoy the lifestyle we have.
Your husband is clearly a brilliant teacher or he would not be fast tracked for promotion so quickly. But if he becomes HoD, he will be doing more admin, less teaching. Has he thought of this? He may have more flexibility in negotiating than he thinks. (Saturday mornings, 4.5 day week?) If they really want him as badly as it sounds they do, he should do the interview and negotiate on the terms if he is offered the job. But be prepared to walk away. You sometimes do have to take these opportunities as they arise.
Re your career, you sound like you are working incredibly hard and if you are away from home one night a week and completing the working day after the kids go to bed you are always “on” which is exhausting. Being pregnant won’t help with that either.
Whatever you decide, you need to carve yourself some “you” time, particularly if DH takes the promotion. That should be non-negotiable or you risk burn out.
Be kind to yourself. You are going to have way more money in the future than you realise. That was something I didn’t really factor in when I was at your stage and I wish I hadn’t worried so much about finances and juggling it all at the time. Your future is secure. Could your in-laws take a 6 month mortgage holiday, allowing you to cut their contributions for 6 months too while you are on maternity leave? This could buy you some extra nanny hours without too much more sacrifice. Good luck. I’m in awe of how you’ve managed this so far given the industry you are in.

People on high incomes have the facility to use money to solve their problems.
The rest of us don’t. That’s the significant difference.

And yes, there will be other opportunities.

In this particular school? And, if there are, will they be available to him after refusing promotion? Turning down a promotion is often career suicide.

You are a high income family but the amount you pay your parents is significant. I don’t know if there are any cultural expectations in your situation but it does make things difficult for you. If at all possible, I do think this needs reviewing. You have 3 small children who take over the other adults - that’s just my opinion though. I know it’s easier said than done.

You and your husband need to consider whether keeping your children at this particular school is sensible. It ties him to his current job for 18 years which is approx when your youngest will finish secondary school. Of course your salaries may increase but what if he leaves that school with 3 sets of full school fees to pay? If he’s in it for the long haul, I reckon it’s good future planning to go for HOD. That said, your POV is completely valid and understandable as plans have changed. You have some serious financial plans to work out together. It’s not insurmountable but he needs to hear your views too.
Going back to work with a 6 week old is a huge sacrifice if it is your choice. I know you have joint money but you’re allowed to voice your opinions too.

Best of luck with everything, including the new little one.

All those people saying there will be other opportunities… they may well not be.

parents do not need to martyr themselves at the alter of “family” all of the time - OP’s DH clearly has ambitions and aspirations and as a person in his own right - not just a parent - he needs to be able to go for it.

He hasn’t been offered the job. He’s been tapped to apply for the job. Some schools promote internally without an application/interview process but this isn’t common or best practice and I would be highly surprised if this was the procedure in a top independent boarding school of the type the OP’s husband works in. They need to be seen to be above board in their recruitment procedures as it is a major safeguarding risk if they’re not. He has been asked to go for it with no guarantee he will actually get it. A brilliant external candidate with far more experience may yet turn up which will make this whole situation go away anyway!

It would not be considered to be career suicide in teaching to turn down a HoD opportunity. HoD positions should not really be given to early career teachers - as the OP’s husband is - and I think the OP’s husband has been tapped for promotion because the school are in a tricky wicket with a vacancy for January rather than him being headhunted in the true sense of the term. The OP’s husband is currently a part time classroom teacher who is part time for family reasons. Turning down this opportunity because his wife is about to have a third child and also has a demanding job is a very valid reason to say thanks very much but not now.

And yes, there will be other opportunities in this school. Especially as the OP and her husband have tiny children and they want to send their children to the secondary school at which he works. That’s a commitment for the next 18 or so years! I can say with certainty that plenty of internal promotion opportunities will come up within that time frame. I would imagine every couple of years there will be movement to enable an upwards move of some nature. People don’t stay forever in schools anymore. It’s very rare to find teachers who have been in the same school their whole career.