To ask DH not to go for promotion?

[NCforthis235]

Sorry for long thread but there is context and don't want to drip feed.

DH is a teacher and has recently had a "tap" to apply for HOD job at his school for next September.

I am the breadwinner (earning c.5x DH's salary) but there are elements of his job which contribute massively in financial and non-financial ways (huge discount on school fees, DH does all childcare during school holidays).

I am pregnant with DC3, due in the spring and have made big sacrifices for him to pursue his teaching career. I went back to work after 3 months with DC1, and 6 weeks after DC2 because he was doing a degree and teacher training so I needed to earn. I have stayed in my current job longer than I would otherwise have done because the flexibility is amazing, but I have to do a night away a week from the kids and a long commute either end. Whenever the kids are sick during term time, it is me who juggles as his job is less flexible.

We are finally settling into a routine but I am stretched/often struggling. I do school drop off and pick up 2x a week on my WFH days (plus on my day off - I work 80%), spend a couple of hours with the kids then finish my work day once DH is home from school. It's working, but it's not easy.

The HOD job would involve him moving from 80% to full time as well as significantly more admin to do before/after school. Which ultimately would involve us needing a nanny for an extra day (which would more than eat up the pay bump for him) and add significantly more strain on me when I already feel like I'm just getting by.

He also wouldn't be able to take shared parental leave as we had planned for Christmas term next year. I've said I think we should just focus on stability during the early years and spending as much time with the kids as possible, and that the HOD is likely to come up again at some point. Once new baby is at pre-school, I am likely to want to look at different job options which would be made a lot easier if DH just stayed where he was for a few years. He's saying that we both worked hard and sacrificed a lot for his career and that he now wants to climb the ladder and start taking some of the financial load off of me. AIBU?

OP DH is in quite a strong negotiating position here. If they advertise now, they won’t get an external candidate for next term. Maybe for the summer? But they would be new and need to learn the ropes.

Or, they could have him for a bit, then him go on SPL knowing he was coming back and had planned in an excellent handover and cover. They already know him and like him. Surely that’s less of a risk for them.

Has he even had that conversation- saying he’d love to apply but the SPL is personally very important, he’s thought of some ways to make it work. He doesn’t have to say it’s a deal breaker, just imply that he may not choose to apply if the SPL is an absolute no. Then go quiet for a bit and see what happens. Seniors will discuss and I suspect come to the conclusion, given they’ve tapped him up, that they will at least negotiate a bit on SPL.

Also, I’ve read the whole thread and YANBU. If you weren’t subsidising DHs parents so heavily this would work. But you are and it doesn’t. And that’s the choice he has made unilaterally, by the sound of it.

If he ever wants to be HOD before the children reach school leaving age then he does need to do it now though, as he is tied to that school apparently so they can get reduced fees, and a HOD could easily stay in post for many years if not the rest of their career. Another chance any time soon isn't guaranteed

(It would be entirely different if he was free to move schools)

How old are the parents? Are they working? Are they disabled? Supporting them as well as your growing family looks like a giant burden.

If they can't afford their house they need to downsize and stop expecting you to fund it.

Agree. If it was a man expecting or asking a woman to settle for a lower role there would be feminist uproar. This is what equality looks like.

Just because you earn more doesn’t mean he has to settle for less when a promotion is possible.

Maybe you go up to 80% over 5 days instead of over 4, to give you a bit more flexibility and time each day.

Yes you sacrificed to allow him to train, but did you think he’d be happy to sit in a mid level role forever just because it’s easy?

I agree with many of the comments saying you need to outsource - cleaner, nanny, etc. sounds like you have the income to pay for those things. Either that or do it yourself and lose your pay.

This is a really key point imo. The op is thinking about the difficulties of the next year and completely ignoring the fact that this will be her husband's life for the next 20 years plus unless he is allowed to move schools and they pay out of normal income for whichever children are still there. The costs of doing so though are likely to dwarf the costs of a nanny for an extra day a week.

That type of promotion may not come up often especially in the private sector and if you really are keen for your children to stay at that particular school then I think DH should go for it now.

At our private school teachers putting three children through school, the benefit in kind is substantial.

God people are being mean to you, I'm so sorry. From what I understand, you've made a lot of sacrifices such as taking a very short maternity leave, seeing your children less during the week etc for your husband to train in a new career.

If he's science or maths then him being offered HOD this early isn't surprising at all; it's hard to keep teachers and managing those departments is a thankless task that I wouldn't enjoy. As core subjects there is so much pressure from above, especially maths. If he's keen to progress maybe suggest the pastoral route - head of year, instead of the academic route, head of department, the TLR is the same but it's a much 'nicer' progression imo. Being head of smaller departments like sixth form only subjects or humanities is much less hideous than maths and i would seriously consider why they are offering it at this point. im guessing they've struggled to recruit. managing a department that is a core subject for the whole school is not something id ever take on that early in my career.

I think you can’t ask him not to. But you can ask how it’s going to work! You’re already probably pissing your boss off enough being the one always leaving for the kids, he needs to take on more childcare.

he doesn’t want to spend the time with the kids when they are young, that sucks! But sadly his choice.

but overall he sounds selfish, and insecure. And you’re totally allowed to feel that!

I think the woman’s also worked hard for it. Why is it always the women that make the sacrifices and have to make it work!

If he wants to go ahead Op cut Oh parents money and pay for an extra day nanny! He can’t have it all and expect you to figure it out

If you are earning 5x teachers salary that 100k+ a year. What on Earth are you doing with it all to need him to work at all?

Dear god, if this was a man asking about a woman, the unreasonableness would be at 90 %.

HOY jobs do seem to go to teachers far too early in my opinion. If he's in his third year, he's only just stopped being ECT. Full-time teachers get put under a whole load more pressure than part-timers. Suddenly you're expected to do double the duty and after-school things. If he doesn't have a tutor group, it strikes me that he won't realise how many bloomin' meetings you end up having before and after school with parents.

Don't make him feel bad that he earns less than you though. It's not his fault teachers should earn three times what they do. And he contributes with discounted fees.

Explain to him that you don't think the renumeration outweighs the work load and responsibilities. He will essentially potentially gain a 30% increase in workload and a 20% decrease in time off/planning time. I doubt he'll get a 30% increase in pay though! It's important he gets to spend time with his kids whilst they're small. There will be other opportunities to be HOY or similar when the kids are older.

I can’t understand why people have kids to then leave them with a childminder or in a nursery or be rich enough to hire a nanny
why have a third !!

Really?!

If you have three young children in this climate, you will have no choice but to make sacrifices, unless you're a millionaire. He most definitely should go for the promotion, otherwise it will cause problems later down the line.

Dont be silly
No one is giving them up or having 24 7 childcare

That's a lack of empathy and understanding on your part, not an error on the part of the parents!!

I think your post is highly insulting actually. I have three children. I will always have three children. I placed them in carefully chosen childcare to enable me to work.

This in turn enabled me to fund my pension which I am very much looking forward to claiming.

Maybe you should get out a little more...

I'm coming into this just from the perspective of your husband's opportunity to become HoD. I am a secondary teacher, former HoD, currently got my feet up just being back in the classroom 😉

By the sounds of things, he's either Physics or Chemistry, both of which are subjects in huge demand and short supply. If the HoD is for Physics, Chemistry or Science, then he is in a very good bargaining position with the school. If they want a January start for the HoD position, then they are desperate. In a fee paying school, not having a head of such a key department is a problem with presumably many students looking to do Medicine, Engineering etc and parents expecting top grades for the money they are investing. They will want someone they know and trust at the helm. It sounds like they've already made a mistake in the previous person they hired, so they will be inclined to go for an internal candidate. Better the devil you know.

All this considered, I think your husband could go for the job on the basis he can do it on a 0.8 contract. There's no reason why a HoD needs to be full time. Schools don't like managers not being full time, but if there is a strong second in department and the leadership in general is strong, it shouldn't ever be a problem to have one day a week when the HoD isn't in. When I was Head of Faculty, I measured my success by the fact that my department ran as smooth as clockwork whether I was there or not. A department that needs their HoD breathing down their neck or who can't do anything without help is one that is poorly led in the first place.

Your husband would need to build a case. He would have to go to the leadership with a plan for who will deputise for him on his day off, and emphasise how this will develop the expertise and skill within the department, making the department as a whole more successful. He would need to show that working part time as a HoD can work. Then, you can have it all.

That being said, if not now, doesn't mean not ever. In a large private secondary, there are always opportunities for promotion. He doesn't have to go down the academic route to be promoted - he could also become a Head of Year. These positions do come up regularly because people frequently use them as a springboard to promotions elsewhere.

I would also say that going for a HoD position after just three years in the classroom might be a little premature. In order to manage a department successfully on top of everything else means that you need to be able to teach with your eyes shut and be incredibly quick, efficient and expert at planning and marking. There is a lot of time taken up as HoD with meetings and admin he won't have any experience of doing, as well as dealing with parents, managing colleagues, and staying on top of all the examination preparations. The workload is only manageable if you can do the day-to-day with very little effort. I can't imagine after just three years in the job, your husband would be ready. He may be able to do the job, but it will be much harder on him at this stage in his teaching career than it would be in a couple of years' time. I might also add that a HoD needs to be able to support and mentor colleagues - can he really support other teachers with their teaching practice with so little classroom experience? I wouldn't be happy if my HoD only had three years' experience, myself. How would he be able to help me with a tricky class?

That's just my two penn'orth. Hopefully some food for thought. Good luck to you both!

The amount you are sending to PIL indefinitely seems insane. If they can’t afford their house they need to downsize.
can you not take a full year maternity leave? If you can pay AVCs into your pension your company may cover them while you are on leave so if you hike it up to 100% or whatever your scheme permits you can get ‘full pay’ though in pension rather than cash. 6 months mat leave is tough especially with 2 other kids.
But to answer your actual question, so long as he can arrange the cover needed extra. Nanny time etc. I would not hold him back from this.

Does he really want to take this role? I can tell you from experience it's much more stressful and time consuming than being 0.8 as a teacher. Yes it's flattering to have a tap but got to look at the reality of it. He will get a couple or more free periods but loads more responsibility and work to do. A lot of people make it work but that involves extra paid care, unless you're lucky to have family to help and tbh the extra money from a responsibility point won't stretch far for this. If it was the other way around what would you think? My personal view is family life and work/home balance is far more important if you can do it, which sounds like you can with your income alone. Xx

I tend to lurk more than join in on here but I couldn’t resist here because I don’t understand why people are getting on at OP. You earn what you earn and usually have financial commitments to match; it’s pretty unkind to be snide at someone asking for advice/ opinions because they have a good salary and you think money should be able to solve all their problems.

Anyway. I can see the argument from both sides. You’d made an agreement and seems like the third child was thought through together based on your circumstances. The arrangements sound like they’re working well but are clearly finely balanced so it’s not as easy as just “facilitate it” if it only stretches OP further. There’s only so many hours in a day. In most circumstances, I’d say it’s the wrong time and he should look again at HOD in a few years. HOWEVER, presumably all 3 kids will go to the school he teaches at so he’s tied to that school for a significant number of years (assuming you wouldn’t want to move them to follow the staff discount if he moved schools). If there’s only one department, realistically when will the job come up again? The next person might stick at it for decades. Thats what shifts the balance to trying to facilitate it on my opinion. But it shouldn’t be at any cost (OP’s well-being) when the status quo works, provides enough money and a good work/life balance and OP has already facilitated a career change at personal cost.

^ this!

I imagine he never contemplated the possibility of promotion so early in his career, and this has thrown a curve ball into their previous agreement.

My DC1 is a teacher. Their HoD is early 30s and having a family. There's no way that the HoD is going to leave their post for years to come because it works. That means that there won't be a vacant HoD post in their school for several years, so there won't be another opportunity.

If the new HoD stays in post, for the sake of argument, for 10 years, OP's DH will have missed his chance potentially in that school. That will then impact on the children's education, and her DH will be trapped and unable to move up, even after the OP has moved up her own ladder.

There has got to be a way to manage this that gives both husband and wife opportunities in work, and allows them to parent their children.

It is not beyond the realms of possibility but it will involve a certain amount of sacrifice.

The monthly funds diverted to husband's parents is for me a huge sticking point. Are they helping out in any way in return? I get that there is money going monthly to the OP's parents because they are helping out with childcare. Maybe they could help a little more?

I think some form of compromise needs to be found, otherwise OP or her DH could easily become resentful here, which would have a negative effect on their marriage, and in turn, on their parenting.

As the parent of young adults, I would also say that the early years, while clearly important, and the foundation to their later life, are not actually as challenging as when they reach the teen years. There isn't in fact a time when they need you less - and my three are in their 20s.

I think you might want to take a good old look at your own expectations and decide if all this is really feasible. I would look specifically at: the expectation to send family members 1k a month, the expectation to put three kids through private school (assuming that this severely limits DHs workplace options & opportunities to seek promotion elsewhere because of the financial discount) & the expectation that you can have three young children and take a big step up in your career the minute baby is born (both of you). I reckon that you & DH only need to do away with one of the expectations above (family members don't get money while kids are small, kids don't go to private school, one of you delays their next career move) and you're sorted. None of these options are ideal but at least a couple are feasible and not the end of the world for most people ( unless your expectations are too high and you find it impossible to adjust them to changed circumstances).