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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask DH not to go for promotion?

408 replies

NCforthis235 · 29/11/2023 16:13

Sorry for long thread but there is context and don't want to drip feed.

DH is a teacher and has recently had a "tap" to apply for HOD job at his school for next September.

I am the breadwinner (earning c.5x DH's salary) but there are elements of his job which contribute massively in financial and non-financial ways (huge discount on school fees, DH does all childcare during school holidays).

I am pregnant with DC3, due in the spring and have made big sacrifices for him to pursue his teaching career. I went back to work after 3 months with DC1, and 6 weeks after DC2 because he was doing a degree and teacher training so I needed to earn. I have stayed in my current job longer than I would otherwise have done because the flexibility is amazing, but I have to do a night away a week from the kids and a long commute either end. Whenever the kids are sick during term time, it is me who juggles as his job is less flexible.

We are finally settling into a routine but I am stretched/often struggling. I do school drop off and pick up 2x a week on my WFH days (plus on my day off - I work 80%), spend a couple of hours with the kids then finish my work day once DH is home from school. It's working, but it's not easy.

The HOD job would involve him moving from 80% to full time as well as significantly more admin to do before/after school. Which ultimately would involve us needing a nanny for an extra day (which would more than eat up the pay bump for him) and add significantly more strain on me when I already feel like I'm just getting by.

He also wouldn't be able to take shared parental leave as we had planned for Christmas term next year. I've said I think we should just focus on stability during the early years and spending as much time with the kids as possible, and that the HOD is likely to come up again at some point. Once new baby is at pre-school, I am likely to want to look at different job options which would be made a lot easier if DH just stayed where he was for a few years. He's saying that we both worked hard and sacrificed a lot for his career and that he now wants to climb the ladder and start taking some of the financial load off of me. AIBU?

OP posts:
niclw · 30/11/2023 20:20

I haven't read all of the posts above but I just wanted to share my opinion as it may allow you both to do what you want.

I work in a school where the leadership team have a belief that family is important too. When I moved to the school my dc was 11 months old and I dropped back down to teaching position. The HOD position came up within 6 months and I applied and got it. I'm a single mum with no family nearby and all of my friends are teachers too. I do everything myself and still manage to do a HOD position. As HOD I get extra free lessons to enable me to complete the extra work. However there are periods of time when the allocated lessons are not enough but there are also times when I don't need to use those free lessons to complete the HOD role so I use them for other things. It is definitely manageable to complete a large proportion of the workload in school hours. Your DH if appointed may have an extra meeting once a half term after school or something similar but he should be able to continue as he currently is working hours wise.

Additionally, if he enjoys his current school, I advise he applies for the HOD job there. I've worked in a few schools where they don't care about staff wellbeing so you wouldn't want him to take a HOD job in one of those schools and then find that he is miserable and overworked because he had to change schools. He should apply while the opportunity is available. I wish him hood luck with his application.

Carriemac · 30/11/2023 20:20

Codlingmoths · 29/11/2023 22:00

Hmmm. I would be honest and say 1. I have supported your career so much. I have sacrificed leave, flexed my career to be the one carrying the load at home, and I can’t point to anywhere you have done this for me. It is useful to have you home in the holidays , but it isn’t you making a specific sacrifices it’s your job, and I am afraid we won’t even get that with three and you being hod- you will probably tell me you MUST be in school half the holidays and cannot look after our children. I am feeling pretty bitter as I thought it was my turn to get some support.
2.given that, here’s what I cannot do. I cannot cut my maternity leave short, you aren’t supportive enough. I cannot take on more. You have no idea how thinly I’ve been stretched and I have nothing else to give.
3 also, this means we will need more childcare , a nanny probably. If you add in school holiday childcare are we poorer for your promotion? I can’t flex anymore.
4 I am so bitter that you wouldn’t take parental leave if you did this. I really thought our relationship was going to support me for a change. Now I suspect it’s the opposite and you will expect even more from me, and I don’t have it to give it to you.

Well said

sandyhappypeople · 30/11/2023 20:32

I may be missing something here but I don't understand why OP is getting so much flack over this, he agreed to a third child, it was planned for, everything is working fine, they've got a good plan for the future. Why would you want to suddenly work more, and work weekends only for the children to be looked after by nannies? It's not for the money, as the extra pay is wasted on childcare to compensate.

I think he should stick where he is while the kids are so small, for the next 3-4 years, but at that point he should be able to do what he likes in terms of career progression, and OP should fully support it which it sounds like that was the original plan anyway.

OP out-earns him massively, so even if he took the promotion, what is the point putting everyone through all the stress when you don't need to? It will take a toll on DH as a LOT more work, and out of the house a lot more than now, it will take a toll on the children as they aren't seeing their parents as much, and it will take a toll on OP, as she will have to pickup even more of the slack at home, they will all have much less down time if he takes this job. Bottom line is, OP is the one that needs to have a healthy career as she is the one financially shoring up this house of cards. If the sexes were reversed I'd think exactly the same.

At this point in time I think you need to think about what will make your lives better and your children's lives better, unless their is a massive immediate benefit to this HOD job then it can definitely wait for a few years, he wouldn't have any flexibility in the job to adequately support his family so it makes no sense for him to take it at this time.

ZiriForGood · 30/11/2023 20:36

MrsAzza · 30/11/2023 20:19

Whilst I do sympathise with the situation to some extent, for working families the reality is you don’t really see your children much, except at weekends. That’s just how life is. Doesn’t sound like either of you work weekends so that is your child time? Having a career isn’t really compatible with spending lots of time with your children outside of that. It’s a sacrifice you have to make.
Considering how much you will earn combined if your husband gets this job, I assume it’s more than enough to pay for a nanny? For most working parents the issue is they can’t afford not to work but the childcare pretty much eats up any expendable income. It sounds like you’re in an envious position. Once you’ve sorted your childcare out there’s no reason why you can’t both have a career. Oh and if you can afford it, get a cleaner so you don’t have to worry about keeping your house tidy when you should be spending time with your kids. If you want to spend more time with your kids during the week, it’s you that needs to put your career on hold. But then I say this as a mother of two young children who works four days a week and would love to work five days if I could afford the additional childcare. I am happy the time with my children is at weekends 😂

Edited

If you read the OP's updates, you would know more about their finances and why "just hire a nanny" isn't a good advice.
And you would know, that the OP did put her career on hold for years now and the original agreement was that he would take the time off work and she will be able to work on her career.

MrsAzza · 30/11/2023 20:42

I can’t be bothered to read the whole thread and life isn’t an already written book. Her husband’s had a great opportunity come up that wasn’t planned which will benefit the family in the long term so why would you not try to accommodate that?! If the shoe was on the other foot and it was the woman being presented with this opportunity the views would be different! She can work on her career also - with adequate childcare. This doesn’t sound like a family who would struggle to afford childcare. They’re either career people (and they make sacrifices to do that), or they’re not. OP said she wanted to spend more time with her children then said she wanted a career. Can’t keep up with contradictions!

sandyhappypeople · 30/11/2023 20:45

MrsAzza · 30/11/2023 20:42

I can’t be bothered to read the whole thread and life isn’t an already written book. Her husband’s had a great opportunity come up that wasn’t planned which will benefit the family in the long term so why would you not try to accommodate that?! If the shoe was on the other foot and it was the woman being presented with this opportunity the views would be different! She can work on her career also - with adequate childcare. This doesn’t sound like a family who would struggle to afford childcare. They’re either career people (and they make sacrifices to do that), or they’re not. OP said she wanted to spend more time with her children then said she wanted a career. Can’t keep up with contradictions!

Edited

What's the benefit to the family in the long run though, I feel like I'm missing something here?

MrsAzza · 30/11/2023 20:54

The husband contributes more financially whilst still having school holidays off to look after the children, the husband (and OP if they have serious look at their outgoings to prioritise childcare) have careers that they enjoy which makes them happy people and better parents. Neither of them would resent each other. Surely if OP’s husband gets a promotion then this takes the strain off her having to return to work so quickly? I’m just struggling to understand the negatives other than ‘it’s not what we agreed’. Or maybe I’m just supportive of my husbands career. We both have careers and we both pull our weight when we’re not working and at home with our kids. If he’s not doing that he needs a talking to but it’s not hard. I have friends whose husbands are in the military and are away for months at a time. It’s not ideal but they just get on with it (and still have their own careers)

User890976 · 30/11/2023 21:12

MrsAzza · 30/11/2023 20:54

The husband contributes more financially whilst still having school holidays off to look after the children, the husband (and OP if they have serious look at their outgoings to prioritise childcare) have careers that they enjoy which makes them happy people and better parents. Neither of them would resent each other. Surely if OP’s husband gets a promotion then this takes the strain off her having to return to work so quickly? I’m just struggling to understand the negatives other than ‘it’s not what we agreed’. Or maybe I’m just supportive of my husbands career. We both have careers and we both pull our weight when we’re not working and at home with our kids. If he’s not doing that he needs a talking to but it’s not hard. I have friends whose husbands are in the military and are away for months at a time. It’s not ideal but they just get on with it (and still have their own careers)

Edited

I think the problem is that by your own admission you haven’t read the thread as if you had you’d know that OP said it wouldn’t be benefit them financially as the additional money would not even be enough to cover the extra day with the nanny…
plus all the additional stress and load on her from his additional responsibilities

sandyhappypeople · 30/11/2023 21:15

MrsAzza · 30/11/2023 20:54

The husband contributes more financially whilst still having school holidays off to look after the children, the husband (and OP if they have serious look at their outgoings to prioritise childcare) have careers that they enjoy which makes them happy people and better parents. Neither of them would resent each other. Surely if OP’s husband gets a promotion then this takes the strain off her having to return to work so quickly? I’m just struggling to understand the negatives other than ‘it’s not what we agreed’. Or maybe I’m just supportive of my husbands career. We both have careers and we both pull our weight when we’re not working and at home with our kids. If he’s not doing that he needs a talking to but it’s not hard. I have friends whose husbands are in the military and are away for months at a time. It’s not ideal but they just get on with it (and still have their own careers)

Edited

Financially they're the same as his extra hours means an extra day for a nanny, so that cancels out his pay raise.

He can't match her earning potential and they need OPs money for all the outgoings (including supporting both sets of parents) so regardless of what he does in his teaching career she still needs to go back to work as the main breadwinner, he was supposed to take 3 months (?) shared parental leave after she went back to work when the baby is 6 months old (which I'm assuming she needs to do for financial reasons anyway), but his new role won't allow that, so they would have to have a nanny sooner and he wouldn't have that opportunity with the baby.

I think OP needs to weigh up the real pros and cons of this job offer and list things out, because all I can see is:

He's going from 4 days to 5 days plus a weekend morning

He'll be more working before and after school hours in his new role (someone up thread said the same role saw them go from a 50 hour to 70 hour week), but at the moment DH is only working 4 days, so assuming his hours currently are more like a 40 hour week.

Longer hours and more challenging job means he's not going to be able to contribute to the household, so more of that would fall on OP's shoulders as there wouldn't be the extra money for extra provisions like cleaners etc.

There's technically no financial gain.

He has school holidays off now, so no benefit there.

OP wanted to look at progressing her career once she goes back to work after mat leave, but wouldn't have the scope to do this with his more demanding work and hours away from the home.

He'll see the kids a lot less.

If he was going to be earning massively more I would say it's a no brainer, and to make it work, but unless there's something that I'm missing I really don't see the upside of any of this

User890976 · 30/11/2023 21:15

I’m sorry you’re getting a hard time on here OP and can’t believe how harsh people are being.

Of course YANBU that your husband sticks to the agreed plan and doesn’t heap more on your plate so he can take a promotion which won’t benefit you financially, will make life worse for you and your kids and which he could take in a few years when your kids are older.

Its a sacrifice many many women have had to make and I think you’ve made plenty for him thus far

TBH now I’ve written it all out I think he sounds like a bit of a twat 😂

Codlingmoths · 30/11/2023 21:20

niclw · 30/11/2023 20:20

I haven't read all of the posts above but I just wanted to share my opinion as it may allow you both to do what you want.

I work in a school where the leadership team have a belief that family is important too. When I moved to the school my dc was 11 months old and I dropped back down to teaching position. The HOD position came up within 6 months and I applied and got it. I'm a single mum with no family nearby and all of my friends are teachers too. I do everything myself and still manage to do a HOD position. As HOD I get extra free lessons to enable me to complete the extra work. However there are periods of time when the allocated lessons are not enough but there are also times when I don't need to use those free lessons to complete the HOD role so I use them for other things. It is definitely manageable to complete a large proportion of the workload in school hours. Your DH if appointed may have an extra meeting once a half term after school or something similar but he should be able to continue as he currently is working hours wise.

Additionally, if he enjoys his current school, I advise he applies for the HOD job there. I've worked in a few schools where they don't care about staff wellbeing so you wouldn't want him to take a HOD job in one of those schools and then find that he is miserable and overworked because he had to change schools. He should apply while the opportunity is available. I wish him hood luck with his application.

The op seems very clear on the requirements and that he will not fit planning into his current hours, the school have also said it is a full time role only, so he would have to work 5 days instead of 4, plus as a full time role he will also have to do Saturday mornings now. That’s a LOT MORE. I see the value of staying at a good school but it’s not the time.

MrsAzza · 30/11/2023 21:21

How can someone on what appears to be a six figure salary, plus a husband earning not afford a nanny or nursery fees? Sounds like too many ridiculous outgoings and here lies the problem! If careers are the priority then facilitating childcare needs to be the priority.

sandyhappypeople · 30/11/2023 21:40

MrsAzza · 30/11/2023 21:21

How can someone on what appears to be a six figure salary, plus a husband earning not afford a nanny or nursery fees? Sounds like too many ridiculous outgoings and here lies the problem! If careers are the priority then facilitating childcare needs to be the priority.

Edited

But careers aren't the priority at this moment in time, they both have careers but both only work 4 days a week, they already employ a nanny and are both happy with that arrangement, with plans for 3-4 years time. He now suddenly wants career advancement, but with so little reward for the household for doing it I'd consider it quite selfish to go after it personally.

You can still have a great career and a happy home life balance, DH is looking to tip that balance quite dramatically, for seemingly no other reason than because 'it's there', well it will still be 'there' in 3-4 years time surely.

I suggest you read OPs posts (not the full thread of replies), because she outlines it quite clearly about the finances, she even lists her outgoings at one point so you can see where the money is allocated and why there is no wiggle room in the current setup, his pay rise will not help their financial situation, OP says they would be worse of because of childcare to compensate for the extra hours.

BIossomtoes · 30/11/2023 21:47

which he could take in a few years when your kids are older.

The opportunity may never arise again. It’s a promotion in a school where they get reduced fees for their kids, for three kids from five to 18 that’s a LOT. He needs to stay in that school. If he turns down this promotion the opportunity may never arise again or, if it does he’s unlikely to be offered it again if he’s turned it down once.

KingsleyBorder · 30/11/2023 21:53

sandyhappypeople · 30/11/2023 20:32

I may be missing something here but I don't understand why OP is getting so much flack over this, he agreed to a third child, it was planned for, everything is working fine, they've got a good plan for the future. Why would you want to suddenly work more, and work weekends only for the children to be looked after by nannies? It's not for the money, as the extra pay is wasted on childcare to compensate.

I think he should stick where he is while the kids are so small, for the next 3-4 years, but at that point he should be able to do what he likes in terms of career progression, and OP should fully support it which it sounds like that was the original plan anyway.

OP out-earns him massively, so even if he took the promotion, what is the point putting everyone through all the stress when you don't need to? It will take a toll on DH as a LOT more work, and out of the house a lot more than now, it will take a toll on the children as they aren't seeing their parents as much, and it will take a toll on OP, as she will have to pickup even more of the slack at home, they will all have much less down time if he takes this job. Bottom line is, OP is the one that needs to have a healthy career as she is the one financially shoring up this house of cards. If the sexes were reversed I'd think exactly the same.

At this point in time I think you need to think about what will make your lives better and your children's lives better, unless their is a massive immediate benefit to this HOD job then it can definitely wait for a few years, he wouldn't have any flexibility in the job to adequately support his family so it makes no sense for him to take it at this time.

It probably won’t be an option again in the future.

MrsAzza · 30/11/2023 22:04

But how do you know it will be there in the future? There are no guarantees. OP must have known he would need to advance his career as she’s stated she’s been supporting him from the ground up with this. That means supporting the next career move when it arises also. As far as I can see, OP already has a good career with potential to advance this in the future but has no plans to do this right now. This is a right now opportunity. You have to adapt. Life can’t be pre planned to the letter.

User890976 · 30/11/2023 22:04

Firstly, he’s not been offered the job he’s been asked to apply for it which isn’t the same thing so he has no job offer to “turn down”

secondly, even if encouraged to apply for a job it’s perfectly normal to say no it’s not the right time for me due to family reasons but this is a role I want in the future and let’s think about ways I can get similar experience or skills in the meantime. If he’s as great as OP says they’ll still be looking for ways to help him progress and support his career as it benefits both him and the employer have good people progress

even if it’s not HOD in a few years there’s other “head of“ jobs he could do to get management experience. People need to start thinking outside the box a bit…

justasking111 · 30/11/2023 22:06

BIossomtoes · 30/11/2023 21:47

which he could take in a few years when your kids are older.

The opportunity may never arise again. It’s a promotion in a school where they get reduced fees for their kids, for three kids from five to 18 that’s a LOT. He needs to stay in that school. If he turns down this promotion the opportunity may never arise again or, if it does he’s unlikely to be offered it again if he’s turned it down once.

It's so rare to get advancement in a private school especially when you're also a parent. The savings are substantial. You can wait and hopefully further down the road find promotion at another private school.

BIossomtoes · 30/11/2023 22:07

Being asked to apply for an internal vacancy is pretty much tantamount to getting it, particularly in an organisation where there’s no obligation to market test it.

MrsAzza · 30/11/2023 22:08

He might not get the job anyway so worry about it if he’s offered it 😂

BIossomtoes · 30/11/2023 22:09

You can wait and hopefully further down the road find promotion at another private school.

Where you’ll lose the fee reduction or all three kids would have to move school. This is the school of choice.

user1494438628 · 30/11/2023 22:09

Sorry if this has already been said, i haven't read all the posts. To put a different spin on things, your husband taking the HOD role could work out better. I am a HOD in an independent school and started in the role when my 3rd was 6 months old so was not easy at all. I find that even though it is more responsibility I do have much more control over my time and can manage my time better than when I wasn't a HOD. There are some jobs of HOD that can be done in the holidays in a way that isn't possible in a pure teaching role and things like having time off for kids being ill feels.less bad when you don't have as many lessons to cover. As others have said though 3 is a lot, im typing this feeding the little one thinking about how I don't remember this bit being so hard with the others.

sandyhappypeople · 30/11/2023 22:11

BIossomtoes · 30/11/2023 21:47

which he could take in a few years when your kids are older.

The opportunity may never arise again. It’s a promotion in a school where they get reduced fees for their kids, for three kids from five to 18 that’s a LOT. He needs to stay in that school. If he turns down this promotion the opportunity may never arise again or, if it does he’s unlikely to be offered it again if he’s turned it down once.

But that in itself wouldn't be the end of the world? If he's happy teaching, that's what he's already doing, he can stay in that school without the HOD job. If it was a career opportunity to change to something he's always wanted to do, or a job role with a massive pay increase, it would be a no brainer.

Aside from that he just can't match OPs earning potential in teaching, so it makes no sense for the rest of the family to be much worse off while he pursues a job progression that isn't earning them any more money. What is the point of him dedicating all that time to the detriment of the family as a whole? There's no financial benefit, so as far as I can see there is literally only a benefit to him in the form of job advanced.. it doesn't even mean he'd enjoy the extra commitment the HOD job brings.

It is 100% the wrong stage of their family life for him to be considering it, it's unfortunate and I'm not without sympathy for the situation, but if that means he loses out in a few years, then unfortunately that's what it means, it's more important that his family is stable and happy and that OP can continue in her career, because she is the one propping the family up as it stands at the moment, he should really recognise the importance of all of that.

justasking111 · 30/11/2023 22:11

BIossomtoes · 30/11/2023 22:07

Being asked to apply for an internal vacancy is pretty much tantamount to getting it, particularly in an organisation where there’s no obligation to market test it.

Not my experience because you can never be sure which way the governors are going to jump. I know a school whose governors have made a monumental cock up twice re a headship when both times there was a safe pair of hands in the wings. One head lasted twelve months, the other three painful years.

MrsAzza · 30/11/2023 22:13

Also for those saying they can’t afford a nanny. Think they need to look at their outgoings…

£1200pcm essential bills
£700pcm support for DH parents
£250pcm support for my parents

Dont know many essential bills that come to £1200 (unless this includes shopping)
Wouldn’t need to pay parents £1000 if you had a full time nanny. Including what is already paid to a nanny this would be £2500 a month for a nanny/childcare..