Mum STILL self-isolating

[Mumofteens4892]

My 70yr old mum has chronic asthma and is still self isolating from COVID. I'm actually pissed off that she's not coming for Christmas for the 4th xmas in a row. She lives on her own. She lives 5 miles away and we never see her.

AIBU to be utterly fed up?

Her immune system will no doubt pick up any bug going, after so long not going in shops or seeing anyone at all, so she has a good point, and it would be awful if she caught something from us at xmas, but where do we go from here?

But OP’s mum’s particular circumstances are such that she clearly does have a friend who can, and hers is the situation at issue.

At the moment, but how long before people get fed up with being expected to isolate before she'll see them? The danger is she'll end up lonely and isolated.

It's one thing to get shopping delivered (I've done it for years) but things like not going to the optician could be dangerous - my DM had glaucoma and would have missed out on years of treatment without regular eye tests.

I agree GP, optometrist etc and family are necessary.

Your post is the only one that reads as aggressive to me!
People are entitled to make their own choices about how to manage their own risks. What issue do you have with people “defending” the OP’s mum? Should we be condemning her? 🤷‍♀️🙄

It's true though, Covid is here to stay. Of course people can make their own decisions but equally other people can decide not to support them. If someone asked me to isolate for 10 days before seeing them or to only see them outside in winter it would have to be a very, very strong relationship to survive long term.

Thankfully although DH is a similar age to OP's DM he's got the opposite mindset - he did ask me if I thought 'we' should be washing the shopping during Covid and I told him 'we' were doing nothing of the sort but if he had nothing better to do then crack on. He didn't thank god!

Yes you are being unreasonable. Your poor mum! Not only is she absolutely correct in terms of the ongoing threat of SarsCov2 which is still killing hundreds of people every week in the UK and leaving others with permanent damage, but she seems to be well informed about what to do to protect herself and not spread it to others. She is right to wear a proper respirator mask and to resist calls for her to be in enclosed spaces with a bunch of people sharing their exhaled air. She deserves to be praised for holding her nerve in the face of gaslighting from the majority who think it's all over and you should be supporting her, not calling into question her mental health. SarsCov2 is a level 3 biohazard. It is a vascular disease that causes widespread damage to all organ systems, including the heart and the brain and it is associated with an increase in cardiovascular events (heart attacks and strokes) and with dementia. Why would she want to increase her chances of those? Why would you?

I think it’s about managing the risk and getting the balance right. I have been entirely in OP’s mum defence for wanting to live a bit more quietly, but I think OP’s post was really about how can they get to spend time with her while managing that risk and was she unreasonable to want to see her and get her to do important things like visit the optometrist. I don’t think she wants to increase the risk to her. I am sure she is open to doing that in ways that manage the risk eg testing beforehand.

For me it's because I don't want to
Time off work with lost pay
The faff of getting antivirals
Feeling awful
Spending ages regaining fitness (I went from 90 min spin classes to 10 mins and out of breath)

And then what are the risks of keeping catching covid too? Does anyone know if there are long term dangers to catch it 10,15,20 times? And if I get it again could it trigger another autoimmune condition when I'm already overloaded with them?

I don't think I am over cautious but sensible. So I won't eat in a restaurant in winter but in summer I go swimming outside and meet up and eat outdoors. I shop in store but with an FFP2 mask and will go to the dentist
Doctors I don't wait inside anyway and hospital I get a cubicle or side room

Yes. I see that. I think I'm peeved on her behalf because of the messages in the responses. I hope the OP can take on board some of the advice about offering a Covid safe environment for the mum, even if it's a Christmas day walk outside. She should also know that not exposing oneself to viruses does not compromise the immune system, but catching Covid does.

I think in truth some people get angry about others taking precautions because deep down it worries them but they don’t want to, or can’t, cramp their style. We fall in the latter camp in that, having young children, we can’t really stop circulating. None of us are particularly at risk. But if I were at risk and able to come out of circulation a bit more I would definitely consider cutting my cloth a bit to fit my risk profile. And there are lots of things to do that don’t stop you having a life: it just takes a bit of rethinking.

And there are lots of things to do that don’t stop you having a life: it just takes a bit of rethinking.

I suppose it depends on what you enjoy doing and how important it is. I rarely drink so going to a pub doesn't bother me but I do enjoy going out for a meal and you couldn't pay me to eat outside at any time of year, wasps in the summer and cold in the winter! Therefore I'll take the risk. I generally don't like large groups of people, but there are certain bands and singers I like so to me it's a risk worth taking. As I said upthread my elderly uncle has rediscovered his love of the theatre - he could easily decide it's too big a risk but I think lockdown made him think life is too short not to do things you enjoy

I think it's only natural that the OP is mourning the loss of the relationship she had with her mother. A relationship where living close by they probably saw each other fairly regularly, and definitely at important occasions like Christmas. And wondering if she will ever be able to get back to that sort of spontaneity that they previously had, without testing and masks and 10 days isolation.

Most people are not living like that any more, they have been vaccinated multiple times and accept the risk of getting covid as any other risk associated with mixing with people. It's also natural that OP questions when/if her mother is ever going to move out of this mindset that covid will kill her.

There are clearly some people on here who are terrified of covid with all the "grade 3 biohazard" stuff. They can't understand why everyone else is not as terrified as they are. But most of us are not.

Many people have had mild covid but it has been shown that it causes damage in even mild cases and that this may not cause problems for a while but chances are it will. Brain damage in all cases. She’s a wise lady. Let her live how she wants. Maybe she wants a few more years on this planet living in peace.

@Mrdannycat maybe she's suffering from health anxiety? Like others are when it comes to covid. Living in misery for no actual sensible reason and just making up total rubbish,

I wish it was made up... She’s protecting her health like many other people are, it’s as simple as that nothing to do with anxiety. Being careful does NOT mean living in misery. I suggest you read the many reports on the effects of Covid on the body.

You're right, being careful doesn't necessarily mean living in misery but not going anywhere or missing out on things you want to do because you're too scared isn't living. The risks of isolation and missing out on essential medical appointments must be far greater than the risk of catching covid.

By your reasoning people shouldn't mix with others, should wear masks, meet outside etc. I'm 48, what's the point of spending the next 25-30 years hiding away? Thankfully my 69 year old husband agrees and we've got holidays and concerts planned for next year. We missed to much during lockdown to carry on existing like that.

I don’t recall saying people shouldn’t mix. Some want to mix safely because they know what Covid does to the body, it’s as simple as that. Wearing a mask to protect yourself in crowded indoor spaces is sensible.

This is it. At this point, what people like the OPs mum are effectively doing is cutting off family and loved ones permanently. There is no exit strategy.

If my mum told us that she didn't really care to see us anymore, I'd be pretty devastated, and probably think there was something wrong with her. I can't in a million years imagine any circumstances where I'd say that to my own kids. Even if they had something like TB.

Ultimately it's about priorities. All the posters who talk about people "protecting themselves" don't acknowledge that there are huge numbers of people who've decided in balance, they would rather not live like that and will take the risk. For my own mother (76, asthmatic, other lung issues) staying in the house and not having close contact with family and friends in the time she has left, is a worse prospect than dying of a contagious virus.

Those claiming the vulnerable should give up protecting their health and live with it really have no grasp on the reality. This isn't being called a mass disabling event for nothing. You may think you only had it mild but there is enough global evidence on the harm it is doing - BMA has plenty of peer reviewed studies that are replicated across the globe you can read. This is going to impact everything - sicker workforce, longer NHS waitlists, poorer economy, lack of viable organs for transplants. If you think you'll get antivirals and care if needed in hospital think again. Our gov is aiming for 0 budget for covid by 31 Dec. They dont care if you die - and trust me, people are still dying. There is plenty of work going on to find longer term solutions to prevent/stop covid with trials already in place. Unfortunately UK is not spending in this in the same way other countries are - plenty of trials looking positive in US. There's currently a major concern with pneumonia which is sweeping countries, particularly hitting kids. UK is doing the same as in 2020 - waiting for it to hit, despite European countries sounding the alarm bells. And actually wearing an FFP2/3, having HEPA filtration is not a big deal but will enable everyone to participate in more activities. Why do you think its more acceptable to force those to risk their lives/health, than for you to take a few mitigations (which have very little to no impact on you) to include them? The ableism in this country horrifies me. Talk to bereaved families and see how they would do anything for some more time with their deceased loved ones.

This is going to impact everything - sicker workforce, longer NHS waitlists, poorer economy

And of course lockdown and furlough didn't contribute to the waiting lists and poor economy did it?

And actually wearing an FFP2/3, having HEPA filtration is not a big deal but will enable everyone to participate in more activities.

Wearing a mask is a big deal for some people. I struggled wearing a fabric one so there is no way I would wear a fitted FFP2/3 mask. It also means people like DH who are hearing impaired are more isolated but never mind them I suppose, covid is all that matters.

This thread is like being back in 2020 at times.

Actually yes it did...but not to the extent covid did. Cause and effect. My consultant has been off with long covid 18 months - what impact do you think that has had on my appointments & health? On the waiting list for that condition? If people had been protected they wouldn't be ill. We have the highest sickness in employment - that will cause long term damage but it won't improve because people are getting sicker with more serious conditions be that due to covid infection or indirectly. You only need to see how very badly we compare with other countries.
A fabric mask is nothing like an FFP3/2 which is much easier to breath through. But if there was better general protection by wider society those struggling wouldn't be at such risk. France (one of many) has made it law all public buildings need ventilation below 800ppm or use HEPA filtration. Addingbrook hosp has demonstrated HEPAS remove covid from the air. Its not hard! You think only your conditions count? Why can't we find a workable solution for all instead of try to compete my problem is greater than yours. Surely we can find a solution for those hard of hearing without throwing other conditions under the bus. Where will it end? Cancer treatment- so very expensive - makes patient very poorly - tell you what they'll die anyway, let them learn to live with it, we can use the money elsewhere.
Of course not! Every life matters and a covid death doesn't mean less because its covid.

This is a sensible post. The British fetishisation of Christmas is really weird honestly.

But we still have all those risks, and on top of that the risk of an unpredictable virus that could disable you for life.

I am absolutely modifying my behaviour because of Covid, and I don't think it's an overreaction at all. I used to love cosy pubs. I loved nothing more than being out in the cold and the dark and walking into a lovely warm pub and having a few glasses of wine with a friend. But having been as sick as I was with Covid, it's just not worth it anymore.

It's not like I have no life. I've been on 4 foreign holidays in the last year (I wear a respirator at the airport and on the plane), I go hiking, for long walks, to museums (I wear a mask), pub beer gardens. I'm just extremely wary of indoor settings with poor ventilation, and I don't think it's unreasonable to feel this way? I'm very worried to lose this quality of life that I do have. Back in May, I couldn't stand up without feeling dizzy, couldn't taste or smell anything, my hair was falling out in clumps, and I was terrified that this would be the rest of my life. Yes, I would love to go to a cosy pub again, or sit in a packed theatre, I would love to never think about bloody Covid again, and I never imagined in 2020 that it would even still be a thing to worry about in 2023, but would it be worth losing the life I do have? I'm not sure it would. The idea of not being able to travel independently, not being able to go on a long stroll, is horrifying to me.

You think only your conditions count? Why can't we find a workable solution for all instead of try to compete my problem is greater than yours. Surely we can find a solution for those hard of hearing without throwing other conditions under the bus. Where will it end?

I didn't say I had any conditions? The only one I talked about was being hard of hearing as this caused DH, and me by association, a lot of issues during Covid.

I genuinely don't see any solution for the hard of hearing other than people accepting that sometimes they will have to remove their mask to speak and explain things. During Covid I had to take DH to minor injuries after he badly injured his hand. I had to argue to be allowed to wait and go in with him and wasn't allowed in to any subsequent appointments, it was ridiculous - how can anyone consent to medical treatment if they can't hear what's being said? He also had to go to A&E and they wouldn't even let me across the threshold! I presume 'reasonable adjustments' went out of the window for Covid. If we go back to mask wearing in medical settings which I appreciate is a possibility (and I understand why although I'd only wear one if they were compulsory) then those sort of pathetic rules must change. I wish I'd complained more at the time but I was more worried about DH.

Unfortunately no matter what is done someone is going to get second class treatment.

So a very simple solution to protect everyone's health would be for everyone to wear ffp3/2 in healthcare and people to be allowed to take support when needed.
Yet from your comment that you'd only wear one if compulsory you actually don't care about other vulnerable people that may be in the healthcare setting or protecting the staff to help ensure that staff aren't made ill and the impact that has on appointments. Nice.