DH asked why I hate his mother

[GelatinousDynamo]

My husband and I have been married for 2 years, together for 9 years. Yesterday he asked me why I hate his mother, told me that it makes him sad because she always goes to so much trouble to please everyone. I don't hate his mother, I told him so, but he doesn't believe me. I told him that I don't hate her, but that I do dislike her because her "pleasing everyone" thing is just an act, that she just basically always ignores everyone's actual wishes and does as she pleases, so I prefer to keep my distance. He's now in a huff, because apparently I just decided to dislike her for no reason and am being petty. So AIBU to dislike her, am I being irrational? Sorry but this is going to be a long one:

It's true that I don't particularly like her. It would be easier if I could just name one strong reason for my dislike, but it's more the bigger picture. I'll try to describe a few situations where his mother "stood out negatively":

• She always tells me to tell her honestly if something goes too far or I don't like anything she does. But when I did talk to her once (she - out of the blue - started ironing clothes, including my underwear, and I asked her never to do that again) I found out later that she told my husband how much I had hurt her, when all she wanted to do was help.
• She interferes everywhere. She looks in every drawer, even rearranged our kitchen utensils because "it's better this way". She basically treats our house as hers, I had to beg my husband to not give his parents our new keys, because they used the old ones to just let themselves in whenever - of course, always "to help out", which we have never asked for.
• Our wedding. My mum died a year before our wedding. During all the preparations, she kept hinting that she wished to replace my mother in certain situations, kept reminding me that "you don't have a mother". For me, the loss was still very raw, I missed my mum every step of the way, and these comments really hurt me, so I distanced myself from her and stopped telling or showing her stuff. She wanted to help me prepare on the day of the wedding, but I declined - I preferred just spending the morning with my oldest friend. But she came to my hotel room anyway, together with two of her sisters-in-law, then just sat there, and kept asking me if I liked her dress - I honestly couldn't care less about her dress on my own wedding day. She also ignored our wishes and tried to enforce "family traditions". The evening of the wedding, she pulled my husband aside and started crying because she didn't feel involved and hated being left out. She has been left out and I could understand her wanting to address that - but the decision to do that on our wedding day, and ruin our wedding for my husband, was a conscious, premeditated decision and totally inappropriate in my opinion.
• Another example is our puppy. Where should I even begin? He doesn't like her because she won't leave him alone. She constantly tries to cuddle and stroke him. No dog likes being touched constantly, so he avoids her. I've tried to tell her to give him some space, that he'll come to her on his own terms, but she won't listen. Instead she has started to feed the dog mountains of treats. I've asked her a thousand times not to give him so many - I have no problem with her giving him the occasional treat, but 200g of beef for a little puppy is just too much, and he gets sick afterwards. She completely ignores me - I stand there asking her to stop overfeeding the dog, and she just continues shoving beef into him... She is so concetrated on her own pleasure while feeding him that she just doesn't care that she's actually potentially hurting him.

I think that's the main problem I have with her - she always knows best and is always very keen on telling everyone what a helpful, involved person she is. For me, she just always has to be the center of attention. She only has one child and only brothers, she is adored in the family and her wishes always take priority. Her "always trying to please everyone" is in my opinion just an act, because she does not really care about the wishes and preferences of other people, she just does as she wants. It's hard to put in words, it seems petty to dislike her for all these little things, but I just can't get over it. Her handling of our puppy has made me reconsider having kids with my husband (he will tell her "no" once but then not react when she does as she pleases anyway, because "she means well"). So AIBU to dislike her so, am I being petty and is my husband right that I should just let it all go and try more?

I'm sorry, Ompompom, but I find this a bit bizarre. Hand over what? Let go of what?

I'm not being mean, but what you feel now about your son is different to how you're likely to feel about him when he's a grown man. If you maintain an exciting and interesting life of your own, there's no need for you to live through him. You can celebrate the fact that he's out there in the world, and welcome his wife/partner into your life. You might also feel relieved that he has someone else to lean on.

My MIL was very similar but she was actually a well meaning and kind person at heart. She had been a cleaner and just wanted to clean and tidy for us. She had the keys to our house and would let herself in at any time with no notice and start cleaning and tidying up or putting a washing machine load on or organising drawers or cupboards. For me it was intrusive and usually ended badly - hand wash clothing shrunk to doll sized, crockery broken, air full of dust because she liked to sweep the carpet rather than hoover. I could tell when she'd been in our bedroom because if the bed was unmade she'd sort of twitched the covers around rather than made it. I asked and asked and asked DH to tell her not to. But he didn't get it at all. I did politely tell her many times please don't do xyz, but she didn't listen.

When we moved house I put my foot down very firmly and refused to give her spare keys and point blank forbade DH to give her any. I had a long spell in hospital with DS when he was little and when we got out, she'd taken over the house again and it was all the usual - things broken or ruined, no respect for privacy. I went absolutely batshit crazy. DH finally got it. It did drive me mad though that even after that I did have become a rude person which I'm not on many occasions just to assert what seemed to me very normal boundaries.

So you don't have to go batshit like me, I would explain to your DH very very very clearly that it is not about liking or disliking his DM it is about disliking what she does and if he won't support you in establishing some boundaries you might end up resenting her and him.

She's never going to change and your husband doesn't have a problem with his Mother........YOU OP are seen as the problem !

Why can't she iron your stuff, why can't she change your kitchen cupboards around, this is seen as normal behaviour in their family.

My male relative gave up a ten year marriage as his mil was very similar. His exwife didn't see a problem with her Mums behaviour .

I do not live through my son, but I do currently see him every day. It will be weird when I don't.

I wonder if this why people say their teenagers are horrible to be around, it's good prep for them moving out.

Sorry, wasn't implying you do live through your son, but MN is peppered with MILs who are clearly doing that.

Yes, a prolonged dose of living with them with smelly feet, body hair, BO, endless fart jokes, etc, etc, does often have the desired result of leaving you slightly relieved when they finally clear off.😀

I'm steeling myself for a similar visit from MIL for Xmas. Luckily lives v v far away, and I've devised coping mechanisms over the years!
If she wants to rewash crockery, re-hang wet clothes on line in a different way (!!!), I now just let her knock herself out!

The puppy! Your MIL can't be trusted not to make a puppy sick! It's not your job to parent your MIL and teach her boundaries. It's a clear sign she wouldn't be trustworthy with childcare. I don't know if the OP is a horrible person or not, as many people seem to be judging (I'd say not) but the MIL is not a safe one.

This is the problem. People from more family systems where boundaries are rare or ignored regard behaviours like those OP's mil displays as entirely normal. They have been trained not to experience them as intrusive or controlling. It can be a long haul for a more psychologically healthy partner to get their spouse to even see the problem, let alone tackle it. You have to push against the constant framing that you're the one being unreasonable: Why do you have a problem with it? She's just trying to be helpful? Why aren't you grateful? Why are you so mean and unkind? And so on and so on.

OP, you can counter this with patience, logic and holding your ground, but it's really difficult. All too often people like your MIL will allow a huge rupture in a relationship to develop rather than self-reflect on their behaviour and change. It's easier in a way. They can project all the blame onto you and pretend that you're the problem and never have to deal with how their actions/mindset led to the rupture in the first place.

Sounds more like my husband at the moment.

I think my point summarised better is this: mothers love their sons, we just do. I suspect some of us are better at letting go than others but I do know I had a lot more respect for my mil when my son was born. Its now me reminding my husband to phone his mum because I know she'd like it.

In this case though, OPs mil is clearly not just a tricky mil but not a nice person either. OP either needs a frank conversation with her husband, because he needs to want to back her up. He sounds like a wet lettuce currently.

She sounds awful and far too interfering.
my mum also died a year before we married and if she’d tried to insert herself like that and remind me I had lost my mum I would’ve been really upset. Thankfully, for all her faults, she didn’t.
I think you need to be more open with your husband about what she’s done as if you do have children it’s gonna get 100x worse!!

I think you need to be really calm and stick to the facts rather than emotions or what you think her motivations are.....discuss behaviour or actions only.

She ironed your underwear? That is really weird, intrusive behaviour and way oversteps most people's boundaries. Same with rearranging your kitchen drawers. If your husband cannot understand why this is strange behaviour and makes you uncomfortable then you really do have a bigger issue!

Try and not leave her out (which you admitted she did).
It's her only child.
She's trying to get involved and yes she's over stepping the boundaries but being a mother of adult children can be really hard and really lonely. Not all MILs set out to annoy their dil or SIL. It's hard to stop being the one who they turn to.
Be kind but firm and create opportunities for her to help when you want her to

Make an effort to see her in a neutral space like a coffee shop rather than in your house, then you haven't got to worry about her rearranging your utensils or ironing your knickers.

I have a friend who suffers from a MiL like this. So lovely on the surface, so cruel underneath. 'Help' is a cover for trying to rule your life and 'please tell me if you don't like something' is actually 'Im going to really make your life hell if you try to stop me interfering'.

"means well" is a cover for all sorts of incompetence, inconvenience and sometimes sly malice.

Anyone who kept rubbing it in my face that I had a recently dead mother would be out of my life.

Where did the idea that you hate your MIL came from... from DH? or from MIL herself? if you've been relatively polite and not had any face to face conversations about boundaries.
If it was MIL, then is she using your DH as a proxy to tell you off, whilst maintaining the image of meaning no harm and having the best of intentions? What result were the pair of them hoping for? That you'd say feed the puppy what you like? Carrying on rummaging through my private things? What specific behaviour changes does she want from you?- Or does she just want to complain about you to DH?

Her wedding behaviour is appalling, but cannot be rewritten although it does throw a light on her character. Re-arranging the kitchen is a bit annoying but ...Who the heck irons someone's actual underwear and rummages through their bedroom drawers? That's not the same as sticking a wash on. That is so intrusive. And therefore I don't think your MIL means well, she's absolutely ignoring what you are telling her

I'm really on the fence with advice that's often given for a DH to have a word, to manage his family.. because in many cases they seem absolutely incapable of it, or half hearted about it because being a go-between is a thankless task and they dont want the relative to kill the messenger. Plus if they don't have your back in the first place, then they are hardly likely to be any good at strongly advocating on your behalf.

Direct chat requires a degree of confidence that is difficult to muster, especially if a DH simply can't see the problem.

Talking to the relative directly also requires an element of putting your money where your mouth is and being prepared to cope with and take responsibility for the fall out if the conversation doesn't go well and the other person kicks off. If this is with someone who is already whinging, acting the victim, telling people you hate them, whilst ignoring your (I think reasonable) requests, and no one else in the family can see it or are just used to it - I can see why that is a daunting task with a risk of it back firing. I think this is why so many tend to take a giant step back, on the grounds that the other person is too old to change and won't listen anyway.

I was interested to see a previous person suggested you both see a counsellor.... which might throw more light on to how to find a solution, because I hadn't thought of it in that light, more in the light of marriage guidance...but it would have the effect of making it a problem for both of you to solve, rather than it just being the DIL's difficulty that she has to sort out alone, and perhaps that might take some of the sting out of the MILs behaviour if a third party was able to sit in and mediate or suggest.

My own mother does similar shit and it drives me insane op so I'd be even more pissed off if someone else's mother started doing it! You do indeed have a DH problem.

And if it's not 'helpful' to you then it's not help, it's interference.

It’s not all mothers and sons tho is it. This woman sounds like she has a personality disorder. I’m sure she’s behaved this way all her life

I have a friend who suffers from a MiL like this. So lovely on the surface, so cruel underneath.

My MIL is exactly like this. Very superficial on the surface, gives off the impression she is chatty and social. She’s actually a gossip, interfering, undermines me, spiteful and defends DH endlessly. Everything is my fault.

What result were the pair of them hoping for?

This is interesting as I’ve never thought about it from this perspective. I’ve never considered what my MIL is trying to achieve by speaking to my DH spitefully about me.

What I do know is that she doesn’t like me no longer tolerating it.

So, this thread sort of exploded... I cannot reply to everyone, but thank you for your answers (even those criticizing me - it sort of helped me see things from her perspective). Some have implied that I need to grow a backbone, and yes, I do. But I have never just stood by floundering while she hurt my dog, I do remove him from the situation and I have absolutely vetoed them ever "dogsitting" (and trust me, the requests are never ending - of course dressed up as a way to take him off our hands so it's less stressful for us juggling him and work). My DH accepts my decisions, but he's not happy about it, just yesterday he kept telling me how happy it would make his mum to have the dog for a day and that she will not be as intense now that he's no longer a cute little ball of puppy fluff. This is actually what started this entire mess, because I told him that I don't trust her with him and never will. So yes, to everyone telling me that I have a DH problem: you are right and I need to do some hard thinking.

And some final thoughts from me, seeing as the answers I got differ so extremely:
I grew up in (what I consider to be) a healthy family that respected individual freedom and personal boundaries, and so you may be right that I simply do not understand their family dynamics. And my DH simply has no clue what is bothering me, even though we've been together for almost ten years and I would have thought that he knows and understands me. It has all gotten worse after we married, his mother wasn't so intense beforehand. They find this normal, I do not. In fact, I know they think that their family has closer and stronger ties and look down on my family.

I can't change all of them, so I guess I need to change my perspective and stick to my guns when it really matters. And this will either work out or my marriage will be over by this time next year.

And one more thing: I'd had genetic counseling and DNA testing done and I do carry the gene my mum and grandma had. Found out last year and it's made me rethink having children. This is just one more thing that adds to my doubts.

I am sorry for the tough decisions already on your plate about having children. Both your MIL's and husband's behaviour is more food for thought. He is banging on about her having the puppy when he knows your decision and knows your (good) reasons behind it. Imagine her intensity turned up to 11 with a grandchild. You will have to battle her every step of the way about who is at the hospital, how quickly she is round after the birth, her comments on your feeding decisions, access to your child, why can't she child mind and fill your kid with treats if you go back to work, judgement on you going back or not going back to work, and on and on and on for years. And your husband maybe will accept your decisions on the face of it, but will then be campaigning on her behalf, like he is with the dog. He doesn't get it after 10 years. He is not going to change.

Ah you have a pushy creepy mother in law. Let her in more and she will hurt you more.

You know the saying "come closer so I can hurt you". That's her. The more distance you put into this the worse she will get, and the closer you get the more she will hurt you.

She does not like you. A third wheel in the marriage. I assume her own is absolute toast.

Imagine her intensity turned up to 11 with a grandchild. You will have to battle her every step of the way

This.

If she can't keep her hands off your puppy she will totally take over your child.

I'm so sorry that you have this vulnerable gene. It's something else to worry about - and of course stress makes you worry all the more, and she is piling the stress on you.

Step back (mentally) take deep breaths, and stick to your guns.

OH God - is she my ex MIL?

Catalogue of things included:

We had a wedding abroad as DH didn't want a huge do - didn't invite anyone - just had a party upon our return - except she 'surprised us' by turning up (in Vegas!) with my FIL and two of her friends we had never met who lived near by! (my mum was so upset)

Let herself in when we were away and 'cleaned' - including reorganising my bedside draws - although I do console myself that she would have come across a Polaroid of her sons penis!

Let herself in and 'do washing' - she shrunk both a silk dress and a cashmere sweater.

Constantly referred to my by his ex's name (not his ex wife mind, no his ex from 10 years before), when corrected she's sigh and say to him ' remember her, she was a lovely girl'.

Purchased many many net covered fire hazard dresses for our DD's because 'girls should look like girls'.

Helping my bath my beautiful, tiny new DD3 looked down and said ' (DH) is so so disappointed it's not a boy'.

I could go on - my solution - I divorced him! (although not just because she was a cunt!).

I should add - 15 years on she actually likes me! All because ex's next victim was exactly like her - a sighing, put upon martyr who always wins in the battle for his attention and pity. Plus my kids are ace and she loves them, I always liked my FIL so I'm glad we still have a relationship.