DH asked why I hate his mother

[GelatinousDynamo]

My husband and I have been married for 2 years, together for 9 years. Yesterday he asked me why I hate his mother, told me that it makes him sad because she always goes to so much trouble to please everyone. I don't hate his mother, I told him so, but he doesn't believe me. I told him that I don't hate her, but that I do dislike her because her "pleasing everyone" thing is just an act, that she just basically always ignores everyone's actual wishes and does as she pleases, so I prefer to keep my distance. He's now in a huff, because apparently I just decided to dislike her for no reason and am being petty. So AIBU to dislike her, am I being irrational? Sorry but this is going to be a long one:

It's true that I don't particularly like her. It would be easier if I could just name one strong reason for my dislike, but it's more the bigger picture. I'll try to describe a few situations where his mother "stood out negatively":

• She always tells me to tell her honestly if something goes too far or I don't like anything she does. But when I did talk to her once (she - out of the blue - started ironing clothes, including my underwear, and I asked her never to do that again) I found out later that she told my husband how much I had hurt her, when all she wanted to do was help.
• She interferes everywhere. She looks in every drawer, even rearranged our kitchen utensils because "it's better this way". She basically treats our house as hers, I had to beg my husband to not give his parents our new keys, because they used the old ones to just let themselves in whenever - of course, always "to help out", which we have never asked for.
• Our wedding. My mum died a year before our wedding. During all the preparations, she kept hinting that she wished to replace my mother in certain situations, kept reminding me that "you don't have a mother". For me, the loss was still very raw, I missed my mum every step of the way, and these comments really hurt me, so I distanced myself from her and stopped telling or showing her stuff. She wanted to help me prepare on the day of the wedding, but I declined - I preferred just spending the morning with my oldest friend. But she came to my hotel room anyway, together with two of her sisters-in-law, then just sat there, and kept asking me if I liked her dress - I honestly couldn't care less about her dress on my own wedding day. She also ignored our wishes and tried to enforce "family traditions". The evening of the wedding, she pulled my husband aside and started crying because she didn't feel involved and hated being left out. She has been left out and I could understand her wanting to address that - but the decision to do that on our wedding day, and ruin our wedding for my husband, was a conscious, premeditated decision and totally inappropriate in my opinion.
• Another example is our puppy. Where should I even begin? He doesn't like her because she won't leave him alone. She constantly tries to cuddle and stroke him. No dog likes being touched constantly, so he avoids her. I've tried to tell her to give him some space, that he'll come to her on his own terms, but she won't listen. Instead she has started to feed the dog mountains of treats. I've asked her a thousand times not to give him so many - I have no problem with her giving him the occasional treat, but 200g of beef for a little puppy is just too much, and he gets sick afterwards. She completely ignores me - I stand there asking her to stop overfeeding the dog, and she just continues shoving beef into him... She is so concetrated on her own pleasure while feeding him that she just doesn't care that she's actually potentially hurting him.

I think that's the main problem I have with her - she always knows best and is always very keen on telling everyone what a helpful, involved person she is. For me, she just always has to be the center of attention. She only has one child and only brothers, she is adored in the family and her wishes always take priority. Her "always trying to please everyone" is in my opinion just an act, because she does not really care about the wishes and preferences of other people, she just does as she wants. It's hard to put in words, it seems petty to dislike her for all these little things, but I just can't get over it. Her handling of our puppy has made me reconsider having kids with my husband (he will tell her "no" once but then not react when she does as she pleases anyway, because "she means well"). So AIBU to dislike her so, am I being petty and is my husband right that I should just let it all go and try more?

Just to say, it's not always easy having a MiL when you no longer have a mum. To see another woman being The Mother at your wedding, The grandma to your children, when you're own mum never had the opportunity is very very hard. I love my MiL dearly, but I couldn't help the little bubble of...something...when I saw DDs wedding photo of DD, me... and MiL. Your MiL lacks tact OP but she is probably standing in a long shadow.

She sounds like a grade a twat to me.

I think you need to establish some very clear boundaries with your husband before you have kids.

I haven't read the fucking thread, but yes, maybe you should try more, MN loves to talk about boundaries, and I'm incredibly boundaried, I'm very good at saying no, but (and there's always a but), people are just people, they are, they're a product of their environment and upbringing, and they're not always perfect.

My mother is a very difficult character, and as I've got older I've mellowed towards her because I see what her stumbling blocks are, I get why she is the way she is. And undoubtedly my children will come to the same resolution about me. Ain't none of us perfect.

And when we make families, we take other people's family members on, good and bad.

Your husband's mother, limited though she may be, is your husband's mother, and he loves her, he wants a relationship with her. Is it so difficult to try to understand why she is the way she is?

You too, are a product of your mother, is your response to your MiL somehow mixed up in that?

Of course it is!

I am a wholehearted believer in family, and it behoves us all well to try to be a little more understanding, to take a step back and ask, is this about me, or her?

It's probably about you, as a psychiatrist friend of mine says, 'If it's not one thing, it's your mother!'

The only person she’s interested in pleasing is herself. if she really meant it she’d listen to you and back off.

Those tears she sheds are tears of manipulation. And it’s working, she’s got your DH questioning you.

No one could replace your mum in the wedding preps, she was insensitive to say the least.

If you ‘smile and accept it’ when something offends you, how will she know where the boundaries are, some people are self absorbed, but can also be well meaning, just because you’re not used to that amount of parental help or attention doesn’t make it wrong, it’s just different and you should at least respect that, not hold her to your standards on it.. but if you don’t tell her which bits bother you and why, how can you ever expect her to change her behaviour?

and for the love of god why are you telling you DH that your MIL offended you in the expectation that he will then ‘confront her’?? why can’t YOU have a quiet word with her at the time? She needs to learn to respect your boundaries and you need to learn to tolerate the side of her that you’re not used to.

I had similar happen when I met DH, his parents are lovely people, but were very much used to playing an active role in his life, and were quite opinionated on what we should do etc, it took a little while of me being assertive for them to realise that we appreciated their advice, but wouldn’t always want to follow it, so they should stop pushing things, it took a little bit of time for them to change their ‘habit’ but if I would have smiled and nodded every time they annoyed me, we wouldn’t have the close relationship we have now, I love them as if they were my own mum and dad (who I lost a few years ago), I can say anything to them and them to me, she IS your family now, so you owe it to your DH to try harder and for gods sake be more assertive woman!

100%.

Show him this thread.

It might be a good idea for you and DH to work with a marriage counselor. He is your problem. He seems to be putting his mum’s wants over your needs. He refuses to address her overstepping and hurtful comments and behaviors, but gets upset with you for not liking her. It sounds like she wants to be matriarch and because your DH is used to this, he expects you to accept it too.

I had a similar conversation to this early in my relationship with my DH (before we married). I told him that I want to like and get along with his mum, but I need her to respect my boundaries and treat me kindly. I told him the specifics I needed him to address with her and I told him the little things that I was willing to let go and tolerate. He addressed the big things with his mum and he held the boundaries with her. He acknowledged the little things with me and understood that I wasn’t picking on his mum or unwilling to compromise. Unfortunately, my MIL didn’t have good intentions and we have limited contact. Had my DH not agreed to put my needs and boundaries before her wants, I would have ended the relationship.

How is someone “trying hard” when they constantly pester and overfeed a puppy when they’ve been asked repeatedly not to? How is muscling in on a woman’s wedding day and telling her “you don’t have a mother” when the poor woman lost her mother only a year ago “trying hard”? That was incredibly thoughtless.
This is a woman who controls and interferes in her family’s lives excessively, likes to be the centre of attention and have people grateful for her “helping”, and whinges and cries when someone puts down boundaries.
If you have lovely ILs of course you wouldn’t say you don’t like them. But it means you find it hard to put yourself in the OP’s shoes.

Be clear in your answer:

"I don't hate your mother. I hate her behaviour. She interferes, ignores my boundaries and makes me feel irrelevant. I would love to have a good relationship with her, but she is making that difficult by dominating nad disregarding my feelings. I can give you some examples of times she had made me feel this way if you would like to hear them.. What do you suggest is the best way to improve this?"

Maybe you need to explain to your MIL what your boundaries actually are? She may not realise that she irrates you so much or why.
A lot of it could be down to generational attitudes especially if you live close to them. In a lot of communities it was considered normal to pop in and 'help!'
Society has moved on.
Also, your darling Mum is no longer with you to chat to about these things. I know when my MIL wanted to push in or support when my mum died early in my marriage I found it hard. She was always difficult and at least 15 years older than my mum and had quite a different view point. I then remembered my mum's favourite saying 'treat others as you want them to treat you'
As I dealt with my grief about my Mum, my MIL irrated me less. Luckily, we didn't live near each. Although it did mean we or she would have to stay over for a few days.

She seems to spend an awful lot of time in your house ! Cut that right back for a start.

I would try to see them less often and rarely at your place. That will make it harder for her to overstep boundaries.

Moving far enough away that she can’t just pop round, but isn’t so far to justify staying over could be a good strategy?

What makes him think she wasn't being malicious?

I think she may well have been

Why would you not be honest with your husband?

And I don't think she sounds at all cold.

Hell would freeze over before I was nice about someone like the OP's MiL

She sounds appalling!

Her behaviour - making everything about her, no matter what - seems highly narcissistic.

Looking in your drawers? I take care of my DGS once a week at DS & DDIL's home, and I don't rearrange drawers and cupboards (even though mine are much better arranged, obviously ) because it's their kitchen and is arranged in a way that suits them. I never even go upstairs unless I need to - and certainly wouldn't rummage through personal things. It's shocking!

As fr your pup - the next time she upsets his tummy, keep the bagged up diarrhoea/vomit and give it to her to take home and dispose of. Tell her the vet says he is at risk of serious intestinal. problems, and she'll get any bills.

In what way is the OP horrible?

Whilst saying Your MIL sounds like a PITA but you don't sound much better. You actually come across as quite a horrible person is a lovely, kind thing to say to a perfect stranger...

She sounds like a covert narcissist (also known as 'victim narcissist'). These people tend to present themselves as wanting to help others and putting everyone first, but in reality become enraged or tearful when they are not the centre of attention or concern.

You can read more here and there are plenty of good resources online to help you deal better with this type of individual, protecting your boundaries whilst at the same time maintaining your relationship with DH.

https://psychcentral.com/health/types-of-narcissism#covert

It sounds like she's using her "helpfulness" as armour to give her license to forge ahead according to her own priorities. Her position in this has never been challenged within her family but you as an external pair of eyes see her differently, and she doesn't like that. My brother's FIL is like this. He really dislikes me because I don't pander to the ridiculous fawning he gets from the women in his own family.

She's a narcissist. Move as far away from her as is possible,tell your husband that he needs to listen to you or you are going to have serious issues with him moving forward. Also, do not entertain having children at this point, she will 100% take over.

MN 101:

Everyone's a narcissist

Go NC

Be sure not to answer your door

Err, something to do with jealousy.

And ffs, never, ever, have anything to do with family. They're all utter bastards.

ADHD?

You already know what she will be like with any kids you have. And you know how your husband will respond to that situation.

Pick up the puppy and physically remove him from her. She’s going to cause him issues. As you’re removing her, tell her to stop, it’s your bloody pet, not hers. How often is she round? She’d drive me nuts. What is this weirdness of doing laundry/ironing and rearranging drawers? That would drive me nuts!

OP, the things you describe are not "helping out".

She interferes everywhere. She looks in every drawer, even rearranged our kitchen utensils because "it's better this way".

Can your DH not see that? Does he have no boundaries? How would your MIL react if you demanded her keys, went round to her houes when she was out and rearranged things because you knew best?

Its so tricky - my ex adored his mother, everyone in the family pandered to her 'nerves'. But it was abundantly clear to me that she was a controlling narc whose 'nerve attacks' were actually temper tantrums when she did not get her own way. No respect for boundaries at all, in fact, she delighted in violating them to prove she could. My ex would never see what she was doing. It was the only thing we argued about. But it was enough to finish us off. And we did not even live that close to her. I think being clear with your DH about what you do and dont find acceptable is first. Second is enforcing boundaries. And maybe telling him you think this is serious enough you are considering not having children with him?

I think she sounds fab. Think it's you not her