Denied leave from work bereavement

[welshwonderful]

My grandad has passed away and his funeral is on Thursday. With work I am entitled to one day's compassionate leave for a grandparent, which I will take for the day of the funeral. I haven't had any other time off due to his death and have been at work every day since, including the day he passed away. I was advised that if I needed any more time off I could take annual leave, however when I asked for Friday as annual leave they have said no as there are already too many people off on that day.

I wanted the day following the funeral too as I am already pretty upset about losing him, and I expect to find the funeral emotionally draining and will probably be exhausted by Friday. My grandad had also been very ill and in and out of hospital in the weeks before his death so my emotional reserves were already low. I also separately experience depression and anxiety and my mental health isn't great currently.

AIBU to want to have the Friday off too? Where do I go from here?

you can't possibly know that, I used to work with people who booked a day off to do absolutely nothing (a lot of youngish guys with no responsibilities, or people who just didn't have much in the way of family/kids). it's better to ask them, the worst they can say is no, and they'll probably ask why you didn't ask them if they find out. you can always ask if they have anything nice planned for their day off and take it from there, it doesn't need to be about why you want time off.

another option is, if you're determined not to have a sick day, to ask your line manager for advice on what options you might have. if they're nice, they may be willing to help you.

I am sorry for your loss.

If I were your manager I'd have authorised the Friday on the basis you are likely to be good for neither man nor beast and because I'm not a complete shit.

However, I don't think it will look good to throw a sickie on Friday if a/l has already been declined. It's a shame in many ways that you did the decent thing and asked for the leave.

In the circumstances, and I'm sure your grandad would agree, you will have to go to work and bear it. Just think how proud of you he'd have been. Get through your probation, secure your reference for the future, if you need to let them get stuffed when you get another job. In the fulness of time, when you are a manager, this will shape your practice and you will be a decent person to your staff.

Meanwhile don't cut your nose off to spite your face, just get through Friday and this too shall pass.

Can you get yourself some therapy sessions booked to suppprt you through your bereavement?

You think an employer is being generous giving a day’s compassionate leave for a grandparent’s funeral?
What do you expect them to do - not to go to the funeral!!

@wutheringkites The current best practice among larger employers is to have no limit on bereavement leave at all.

Really? Limitless leave? You must work in a very rarefied environment. Could you you provide empirical evidence for this "best practice"? Because I have heard of NO employer at all that offers unlimited (any type of) paid or unpaid leave.

I would try and find out if a colleague could swap that day. Otherwise see if you can take the Monday off. I wouldn't risk it if you're on probation. Then I might start looking for a new job.

Yes. I do this. Take a random day here and there to flit about doing not much. I have cancelled or moved days previously so others who really need a leave day can have it instead.

That's the issue

It was mean of them to deny you annual leave under the circumstances. I don't think it's compulsory to allow more than a day bereavement leave for a grandparent. If you feel unable to go to work take the time off sick. You shouldn't need a doctor's note.,

If you really think you can't face work (and that is a totally reasonable way to feel), I'd take a week off and self-cert. The risk is to your probation but surely the worst they will do is extend it? (I think they would be bastards to do that, in the circumstances).

I'm public sector and got 3 days for the death of a parent, 1 for the death of a grandparent. My granny lived with us! Everyone basically goes off sick. It's totally unreasonable and very outdated thinking.

It's pretty mean of work, but if they're short staffed, they're short staffed.
I know you're upset, but it's just one day before the weekend, and it might be good to take your mind off things for a while with a bit of normality.

Erm. The leave is so they can go to the funeral so yes, obviously the expectation would be to go to the funeral, rather than not go. Your post makes no sense. And perhaps read on before replying and calm down and take your outraged exclamation marks elsewhere.

i’m very sorry for your loss. i agree this sort of thing totally sucks. I was 25 when my younger brother died suddenly and in a management position and couldn’t comprehend on any level how they expected me to return to work 3 days later when I didn’t even feel like the world existed on any functional level any more. Ultimately only you can decide how far you’re willing to ‘push it’ in terms of the probationary period ( i dont think youre pushing it but in the context of what your employer would say) but I think the Wednesday leave suggestion is a good one here, or, if that’s not possible, could you ask for reduced hours / to only work core hours on the Friday? Then have a nice long weekend and take monday too?

All the best

But you also can't possibly know they've booked that day off to 'flit about.'

You should not pressure other people to find solutions to problems you face. Ultimately, asking someone to not go on annual leave because you have lost a family member is pressuring them - and a lot of people would feel very uncomfortable being asked.I've been asked before and it was really awkward saying no. Even my manager joined in to ask me to swap annual leave days for this person...

No one should be put in that position and, equally, no one should not be able to take compassionate leave when they need it. But life isn't fair.

A friend of mine recently lost someone very close to him, not an immediate family member, but it was very sudden and unexpected. His company, a huge multinational (who you would expect to be heartless) signed him off indefinitely and told him to come back when he felt up to it.

On top of that when he did go back (after a month or so I think) they offered him a phased return so he just did the days he could manage for a little while.

They were excellent and its not because he had any particular mental health struggles to speak of, they just treated him like a human being. He's now their most loyal and dedicated employee. So in a way being a compassionate employer has its rewards other than being morally right.

See how you feel on Friday, you’re presuming you’ll feel bad but you might feel ok enough to work.

If you don’t, phone in sick.

OP you asked what would have happened if the funeral had been on Friday when the team is short staffed.

I can't be sure what the procedure is in your workplace, but I know what would happen in mine. Someone would have their leave cancelled and they would have to come in.

If you leave it until the Friday and call in sick, they will potentially be understaffed.

I am retired from the NHS but what was the case when I was at work was that one day was given for bereavement and any more time needed could be taken as sickness absence. That was the management expectation and never a problem.

Self cert for the first week, then signed off if you still don’t feel up to it.

It is absolutely not a waste of the NHS’s time. Mental health matters as much as physical health.

From an HR pov we would rather people were signed off following a significant bereavement than pushing through it and it catching up weeks or months down the line. I would go a step further and may (and have done so in the past) contact a member of staff who didn’t take any sick leave following a significant bereavement as a wellbeing check. We know compassionate leave is minimal and often isn’t long enough. Take care x

Did you miss the bit where OP said she’s already asked and been told no for operational reasons ?

Unreal, isn’t it? Just unbelievable.

So sorry @welshwonderful, they’re being completely heartless. I’d be tempted to go sick.

@Baffledandalarmed Asking a simple question once is not pressuring anyone. There’s a big difference between sending a group email to colleagues asking if anyone that’s got leave booked would be willing to swap the day to help you out and cornering individuals in the kitchen and going all woe I am at them. There is no harm in politely asking and if anyone chooses to get offended or be ‘pressured’ by non-existent pressure that’s their choice.

So sorry for your loss. It’s difficult because you are in your probationary period. I would put out a general message asking if anyone on annual leave Friday would be prepared to ‘swap’ so you can take the day instead. I would give up the leave day for one of my colleagues in this situation ( assuming I wasn’t going on holiday). I don’t understand people saying you are lucky to get one day compassionate leave for a grandparent. Yes, people are different but some are incredibly close to their grandparents. I was and I had two weeks sick leave when my grandad died. It hit me hard, plus he died in the hospital I work at. So I was going back to work when I felt ready and had grieved in a way that was healthy for me. Other people prefer to be ‘business as usual’ as a way of coping , which is obviously fine too.

I would take it higher with work if your line manager said no. Can you speak to your Operations Manager, HR or a union rep if you have one?
Annual leave is declined if there are too many people off but this is extenuating circumstances.

OP, you'll manage, honestly.

I went to work the day after my DM died. I just told the boss to make sure everyone knew and that they weren't to be talking to me about it. Or, heaven forfend, be nice to me!

It took my mind off the fact I couldn't go home to help and had to leave my DS to deal with everything.

There’s no way you can ring in sick if you’ve asked for annual leave and have been told no.

Your employer is absolutely going to know you’re not sick but taking the day off when refused, and while I do understand your predicament an employer will take a very dim view of that.

On the face of it you can self certify but an employer isn’t obliged to blindly accept someone’s self certification when they know or suspect that person isn’t sick but has called in sick out of protest.

I know of companies where you would face disciplinary for that kind of action.