Drama, Drama, Drama - SIL

[jumpingjackrabbit]

DH's mother has travelled down South to spend some time with her grandaughter who she sees a few times a year and also to be able to spend some quality time with DH. We don't see her very often as they live a good 7 hours away from us.

Within 5 minutes of arriving yesterday, SIL is on the phone having a breakdown about something. I overhead MIL say did she not remember that she had come down to spend some time with us (I'm not bothered about spending time with me, but I do think it is important that she gets to spend quality time with DH and our DD). She then took herself off to another room and was gone for 45 minutes.

5 minutes after getting off the phone, it rings again. SIL again. This time wanting to Facetime.

We just sit down for our evening meal and BIL's phone goes (he has driven MIL here) and he says he will speak to SIL at 8pm. 8pm he disappears off into another room and after 30 minutes comes back, hands the phone to MIL and says he has had enough of being Siegmund Freud and it was her turn. She then disappears off for another hour.

All the time, DH was wanting to talk MIL about some things important to him and about work etc given he hardly sees his mum or gets 5 minutes with her.

We are meant to be going up for Christmas, but I said to MIL that whilst I do not wish to know what is going on, if things were not great, it might be better for us not to come up. 2 years ago we had a bloody miserable Christmas due to SIL and her mood swings, taking offence at everything etc. and personally I would rather enjoy a happy christmas with my DD and DH away from all of this drama as it is just not pleasant and awkward.

AIBU to think SIL should allow DH and DD to spend at least a couple of hours with grandma / mum?

AIBU to want to reconsider our Christmas plans to avoid another repeat of having every word we say taken the wrong way?

DH told me it is just to do with his DS EXH who has asked if his DD can stay an extra night.
Why was this such a big, exclusionary secret?

She sounds between a rock and a hard place - but it's her decision whether or not to enable it. And of course SiL is not 'in crisis'. Her behaviour patterns even over this weekend make that immediately apparent.

This all sounds familiar to me. Everyone in DH's family dances on eggshells around his sister in a vain attempt not to trigger her. I really believe they're afraid of her. And the more this sort of thing is enabled the more 'normal' it becomes. Some really outlandish behaviour of hers, which would raise eyebrows in almost every other quarter, passes unremarked upon and pretty much unnoticed by their family members.

I have a low tolerance threshold for this kind of BS and distanced myself many years ago. Of course this resulted in more histrionics, only I wasn't there to see them. (MiL helpfully informed me of this just a few years ago, after I'd scarcely been around for about 15 years and SiL had finally begun to notice and reacted with customary hostility).

For more years than I care to remember my Christmas holidays were made more stressful by their constant passive aggressive behaviour. Don't fall into this pattern. MiL can enable all she likes, but you don't have to allow yourself to be drawn into SiL's amateur theatrics. I'd also be having some strong words with DH about getting a fucking grip, and agreeing there'll be no repetition of this under your roof until they all start behaving like rational adults.

This thread is reminding me of what I long ago walked away from and is making me extremely thankful I did so (and that my DC has been spared this nonsense). Just reading of your SiL's histrionics is exhausting!

Your MIL is her own worst enemy

your h needs to be really clear with his sister AND his mother that they’ve ruined a visit to your family and that nobody has the right to do that.

he needs to tell his mother that she’s not helping herself OR his sister in allowing this totally toxic and unboundaried behaviour.

how ridiculous is it to call someone at 2am and keep them up for hours when they have a long car journey to do.

your d parents are allowing this, enabling this appalling behaviour and should absolutely tell sister to stop this telephonic terrorism

I think they all like the drama tbh, its hardly something to make such a mystery of.

She rang at 2am? That is just ridiculous. Unless a birth or death of a close relative.

It’s really sad that your mil has spent no quality time with your dd. I don’t think this will ever improve, so I definitely would not go up for Christmas.
We have had similar with my mil -her daughter and grandchildren are very needy and we’ve never been over there without the whole family being there. We very rarely see any of them now. It’s sad.

We used to have similar with DSD and her toxic mother, ruined every weekend/holiday/meet up.

so we would confiscate phones over night, switch WiFi off etc

Sadly you can’t do this to grown adults, but I’d actually suggest it for future visits as a way of expressing your exasperation at having your dd’s granny visit so utterly fucked by such a ridiculous and absurd woman.

DH needs to address this, on the point of his daughter having a right to a relationship with her family

So true, this is all that needs to be done!

If this is really all about SIL then IMO her ex had a lucky escape. In fact her behaviour is likely why he got rid of her.

he probably isn’t abusive at all, but she sees his wanting to have to her children, who she is emotionally damaging with her behaviour, as control, abuse, whatever you want to call it.

But TBH OP the fact that your dh is having whispered conversations in the kitchen and changing the subject when you enter is ringing alarm bells for me.

How is your marriage generally?

I would be demanding the truth. I’d be telling him that you don’t believe what he’s told you for a second, and you want to know exactly what he’s been whispering about to his mother and brother and why you were excluded. And I’d be asking him straight whether it was you they were whispering about. Because my spidey senses are in motion here.

So why couldn’t he tell you that at the time? why did he side with his family in excluding you from that secret?

you’ve got bigger problems than SIL I’m afraid..

Sounds like this is a personality disorder and there is no hope in “curing” that. Her behaviour is very rewarding to the SIL.
I’d take the ex-H’s alleged bad behaviour with a grain of salt, too, as judging by the OP’s experience, anything he says of does will be exaggerated out of all proportion and now he will feel free to tell her to pull her head in.
Sorry OP there’s no way you can solve the problem unless all the rest of the family decides on a consistent course of action.
Enjoy your Christmas at home while SIL makes a drama about her ex’s demands over Christmas.
Meanwhile try to give DD frequent short meetings with DGM over FaceTime.

All of this because her ex wanted an extra night with his daughter?

Either that's a lie or SIL is controlling to the extreme. Does she see her daughter as theirs or hers alone?

At 12 the daughter is going to be able to start making choices of her own about where she spends her time or even lives and no court is going to force her to spend time with her mother if she doesn't want to. SIL may reap what she has sown with all her dramatics.

@jumpingjackrabbit I dont believe that at all!! The real problem is not being told to you and I wouldnt be surprised if it wasnt something to do with OP! Thinking sil didnt want mil to go and visit op and her husband and child! Thinking she is jealous! as for phoning at 2am I certainly wouldnt have answered that call and mil was a mug to do so! OP's hubby needs to tell the truth!

sorry but that cant be it-they were huddled round together yesterday before this supposed phon call during the night saying they couldnt tell you

your sil is a narc and your dh and family are enabling this shit

Time to put your little family 1st and your enjoyment - if your MIL works out she needs to tell SIL to get back in her lane that's up to her but I have a feeling you'll end up being the baddie so take yourself out of the equation. Sometimes you just can't make parents behave the way you hoped xx

What I'm also v cross about is SIL came to stay with us in the summer with her mental health in an unstable state. MIL didn't think she should have come as she wasn't in a fit state. NOBODY told me this and she took DD off out alone. I only learnt this today. I've said to DH that DD is not going to be going up for a sleepover as I don't think she is stable enough to look after her.

She isn't doing herself any favours as her ex will use her mental health against her

This. You DH and his family are bloody rude, and that's understating it! Who do they think they are to be excluding you in your own home. If I were in your shoes, they would be told, either they start treating you like one of the family or they can fuck off out of it and I include your DH in that.

Oh god I had one of those. Couldn't stand anyone else having time with her mum, drama at every family event, drunkenness, upset, tears. She'd say something to you when you were alone to wind you up then attempt to create a situation in front of everyone to get you to bite so she could be the victim. Stear clear of loopy women like this!!

I think there's a massive elephant in the room about mental health that everone seems to pussyfoot around. Poor coping strategies doesn't equal poor mental health, nor is it especially easy for anyone but the sufferer to fix. If you have a personality that's inclined towards catastrophising/dependent/self-harming/antisocial behaviour when under stress then no amount of pandering to it is really going to change much. In fact, over-facilitating it and not implementing clear boundaries can often just perpetuate the cycle.

The only thing that's likely to improve things is intensive and long-term therapy which often people don't want to engage with and isn't easy to access even if they do. It's easy to criticise people who seem unsympathetic when they have to care for somebody like this but I think unless you have somebody like this in your life you can't possibly know how draining it can feel

The whispering around the kitchen table, excluding you in your own home, then this BS story that all this drama was caused by a father wanting his child to stay an extra night doesn't add up. His mother has made it known where you stand in the family too OP, firmly on the outside with her comment on if he didn't tell you she wouldn't, they closed ranks. Imo your DH has shown who his family are and it isn't you OP, he has excluded you at every turn OP and I would be watching that with extreme caution.

I think under the circumstances, you are well within your rights to let them ALL know that you will be having a quiet family Christmas at home this year.
If they behave like that in your own house - how much worse will it be at MILs.

Your DH needs to just tell you ( even if its just in vague terms) what is going on and certainly, if there is any suggestion that your 5-year-old would be staying with her. You are both parents to your child.

The mama bear in me is getting so angry on your behalf op!
really really feel for you.
It all just sounds so complicated and difficult to navigate.
sil discussing your sex life and therefore her own brothers sex life with you (bleurgh!!!!) is kind of completely unfathomable tbh.
what did DH make of her talking about this to you????
im such a private person I’d be in a state of shock about all of this if I were you.
What has your DH said to you about it all today? Is he planning on reaching out to his sister right now? Does he think it’s all over the top? Is he keen to avoid them all over Christmas?
hope you’re not too burned out and DD is alright. :(

It sounds like SIL needs the kind of help and expertise that MIL cannot give, or you or your DH. It doesn't sound like things are getting any better.

Going up at Xmas is likely to exasperate things. I would tell MIL this. Hopefully SIL finds proper help.

@Theydontknowthatweknowthattheyknow Agreed.

OP, what does your husband say about all this? Does he see how terrible the behaviour has been all round?

@Theydontknowthatweknowthattheyknow he just said he sister is obviously not in a good place and didn't seem too concerned. I'm just going to keep quiet avoid contact and ficus on us.