AIBU to take my son into the female changing room?

[JustKeepSwimmingAlong]

I’ve taken my kids swimming tonight, both have separate swimming lessons and I swam with one while the other had theirs. Eldest is male, 9 and has multiple additional needs including ADHD, ASD and some physical disabilities which means he struggles to change himself. Youngest is in nursery so can dress herself but does need supervision. We got out the pool and realised all the changing rooms were full. There were 8 classes on over multiple pools, as well as general swim on at the same time. There’s only two family/accessible changing rooms and the others are all individual. There were literal queues for the large changing rooms.
I then noticed people going out of the group change. I’ve not used it before, but there was a male and a female changing room, so we went in the females. There was no one in it so started laying out the kids clothes and getting them to shower. Got them out the showers and started to get them dressed and people started coming in. There were a couple of mums with young girls and boys, and then a teenager looking girl came in by herself. She immediately came over to tell me that we were in the female room. I explained my son needed help getting changed and the changing rooms were full, but this room had been empty so we’d used it rather than standing wet and cold waiting for a changing room.
We were nearly Finished and my son was fully dressed when she arrived. He sat next to me, facing the wall and we left within a few minutes. During this time, she did get changed, so we didn’t delay her. Now I’m wondering if I was unreasonable?
I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, but I really don’t know what else I could have done in the situation? There’s too many classes and too few changing rooms, and we need a larger/accessible one, but they’re the only ones with baby change so they’re really
Popular. The lessons are every week so now I’m wondering what I can do next week? Would I be unreasonable to keep using the group change if there are no other options available?

@sollenwir what I mean is the relentless head banging no males allowed no males allowed no males allowed on this thread. If someone came up to me and started parroting that whenever I was dealing with a 9yo disabled child… frankly I wouldn’t have it.

And most people would be understanding and compassionate as to the reason he was in there - people without disability taking up disabled space. Therefore leaving no other option.

If there was an issue (and I can’t ever think that this would ever occur because generally everywhere we’ve ever gone people have been decent, caring and supportive) I would offer to join the person upset in making a complaint because the situation would not be to my liking either.

So where would you draw the line? Two months over the upper age limit is fine?

What about 3 months? 6 months? A year?

For what feels like the hundredth time I have had to say this, I am on your side with the fact that we need more disabled facilities EVERYWHERE, but I will not accept this is more important than the protection of female only spaces.
I guess the question is who are you aiming this at? The OP has already said she wouldn’t do this again. Who exactly are you trying to tell on repeat? Is it the people who “don’t mind”, because they don’t care and are irrelevant? Is it other parents of boys over the age of 9 (or 7 or 8 or all the other numbers people have suggested)? I’m sorry I don’t see who you’re trying to educate in your way of thinking.

@LolaSmiles I am a strong believer in voting with my feet - we all need to think about accessibility (even if it doesn't directly affect us) and actively choose places who do their best to accessible and inclusive, not choose those who don't, and make it clear to the businesses and our friends, family etc why we made these choices.

(I understand older buildings can have a harder time making the accessibility changes needed and so am more forgiving when I can see effort has been made in those situations).

Sorry, what?

You would go to management and get them to deal with the female users of the female changing rooms who objected to a male child above the upper age limit being in there, rather than asking them to find you an accessible space asap?

Who am I aiming it at?
Well, the fact that I tagged another poster in it makes that fairly clear, I'd think.
I didn't tag the OP, I didn't tag you.

@Robinni

@sollenwirwhat I mean is the relentless head banging no males allowed no males allowed no males allowed on this thread. If someone came up to me and started parroting that whenever I was dealing with a 9yo disabled child… frankly I wouldn’t have it.

While I can hear your frustration, frankly, you would have no choice but to 'have it' because you are actually the one breaking the rules.

Again, I would not interrupt you in that moment but would take it up with whoever is in charge, pointing out the abuse of the rules regarding males in female spaces - the facility not providing the space you need (accessible and unisex but also private) does not allow you to take someone else's space (females only) for you/your son.

I also have no issue with those who do think speaking at the time is appropriate, because they have their own voice.

I would take this as an exceptional circumstance @MargotBamborough

A once off that has occurred due to failure of management and lack of experience for OP.

No women were in there when he was getting showered. Only at the end when he was fully dressed did a teenager enter.

The mother explained the exceptional circumstance related to disability, the girl accepted it would be reasonable to accommodate him as he is still a child very close to the cut off point and she proceeded to change. She could have chosen to wait two minutes until they left too.

To answer your question directly, I think some leeway up to about the age of 10 would be reasonable, in the event that the child may be at risk of adverse health outcomes, injury or death by doing otherwise.

And that the mother attempts to make the child face the wall or be in an area away from anyone else there.

The one thing I would say to OP is I don’t know why the shower was necessary, you can do that at home. Kit off, dry off, dress out would be better for all involved. Speaking from the point of view that showering usually increases sensory distress.

Also was there even a girl inside the room?

Read the first post by @JustKeepSwimmingAlong ffs.
There was a teenaged girl, who seemed to be uncomfortable.

Some of us are disabled with disabled parents, disabled children and disabled grandparents. I understand exactly how stressful it is to be disabled and how stressful it is to be a carer. That in no way allows me to selfishly prioritise stealing spaces from other people to make my life easier in the hopes that they have been socialised into not making a fuss.

the girl arrived as they were finishing @FarEast but it doesn’t matter because OP knows it’s really busy now and can plan her behaviour accordingly and that doesn’t include a repeat performance.

I see it differently.

The trouble is that wherever you draw the line, some people are going to think there are exceptional circumstances.

If you say there should be some leeway up until the age of 10, why not 11 or 12?

I very much doubt it was a one off, because the reality is that there are many people who think the rules do not apply to them because they have a baby/toddler/autistic child/small bladder/whatever and so you are more often than not likely to find people breaking the rules who either believe they are the only one breaking the rules so it doesn't matter, or just don't care.

Although this is not a trans thread, I think it's worth noting that it is very very difficult in the current climate for a woman, much less a teenage girl, to say, "This space is for women only and you shouldn't be in here."

When that teenage girl plucked up the courage to say it was a female only space, the OP explained that she believed she and her autistic son were more important. That was a teenage girl saying, "hi, these are my boundaries" and the response was, "your boundaries aren't important". That will make it even more difficult for her to speak up the next time.

She didn't want to get changed in front of a nine year old boy but she was basically told that she had to put up with it or wait. And what would be the point in waiting when two minutes later another mother might come in with her nine year old boy, also believing that the rules do not apply to them?

This is why your rules need to be rules, not guidelines, and your cut off point needs to be interpreted strictly, not loosely.

@MargotBamborough

If my child is distressed or liable to be then my number one priority is quelling that distress and ensuring he is safe.

In the event that family/disability space was blocked I would naturally go to the female space if available for a child under 10 (with limited coping capacity).

If anyone gave me hassle over this I would direct them to management who placed me and my child in this position and invite them to accompany me to the reception to make a joint complaint.

Because that is where I would be going to after attending to my child’s needs.

What I am not going to do, is have my child cold, wet, distressed, having a meltdown while I stand in reception for 45 minutes while Jenny on reception who is 16 tries to locate Bob her supervisor who in turn tries to find Joe the manager who turns out to be out on a break… Nor am I going to have him undress in a public place, enter the men’s myself or have him alone in there or anywhere else and vulnerable/incapable of looking after his needs.

Thats just stupid.

You deal with the shit in the best way you can without neglecting or causing harm to the child. And then you give off to management to stop it from happening again.

Right, so what will you do differently when your son is 11 and now three years above the upper age limit for using a female only space, not two?

@sollenwir

Whatever anyone says to management is really beyond my remit to care about.

If placed in this position I would be giving off reams about it and dictating equality law to management.

So I can assure you I would never be placed in that position in that place again.

I think you’re confusing people who would abuse women’s spaces and routinely take in older boys and people who would be forced to use them in an emergency context such as the child needing to go to the bathroom or being blocked from all other available change space where a carer could be present.

If placed in this position I would be giving off reams about it and dictating equality law to management.

But your issue here should be with management not providing sufficient accessible spaces, not with women correctly pointing out that your son is too old to be in a female only space.

Just like women who don't feel able to share changing spaces with trans women should be putting pressure on management to provide single sex spaces, not using accessible spaces so that disabled people then can't use them.

I am at the stage now where OP is, post realisation that there is an earlier cut off point.

So what I will be doing immediately is to check leisure centre policy on the age of males in changing rooms where it isn’t unisex changing. Beyond the age of 8, or whatever is stated, where change facilities are required, I would check with management prior to our arrival as to what facilities are available and their disability provision. I will be asking for a guarantee from them that suitable change space will be available before and after swimming.

That is what I will be doing (although rarely as most are unisex now) and I imagine that is what any Mother of a disabled child would do upon realising the age boundaries and potential for adverse outcomes for her child.

When that teenage girl plucked up the courage to say it was a female only space, the OP explained that she believed she and her autistic son were more important. That was a teenage girl saying, "hi, these are my boundaries" and the response was, "your boundaries aren't important". That will make it even more difficult for her to speak up the next time.

Very well put @MargotBamborough

And then we have a whole lot of other posters saying they are putting themselves or their children first.

So, in a case like this, who IS more important? I wish PPs who say their DC are more important than other people's DCs would admit this:

that they consider the comfort of a young teenage girl to be less important than their boy's comfort.

Yes my issue would be with management not providing sufficient accessible spaces.

I would have no issue with women correctly pointing out that my son is too old to be in a female only space, because I’d be in agreement with them.

But I’m not going to have my son put through harm or distress on account of that.

I really think it’s unfair to conflate trans issues with disabled peoples issues.

@FarEast

The teenage girl is capable of waiting a few minutes if she is uncomfortable.

The disabled child is not.

That’s the difference.

Like a disabled person needs a wheelchair and an able bodied can walk.

You cannot 'dictate' anything to management though, that's the point you seem to be missing. You cannot force them to accept you taking a male into a communal female only changing area, no matter how much you quote 'discrimination' at them. You are also actually asking them to discriminate against other people, by allowing you to break rules. We all want accessible spaces for folk in your situation, but you don't get them by taking space away from others.

That still doesn't mean the disabled child, who is male, is more important than any other female in an all female communal changing area.

(Aimed at recent posters not OP)

You walk into the changing room where a group of preteen girls are in the process of changing. They/their parents object.

Would you stay or leave?

Just to clarify, you mean specifically those who would take males over the allowed age in there?

@sollenwir yes. I was clumsily trying to point out I wasn't meaning the OP who has taken advice on board.