British or English?

[moijejoue]

DH is born in London. Both his parents were born in India They're all brown. I would have described DH as British Indian. DH says he isn't Indian, can't speak the language, has never been and doesn't know anything about it and is English.

My background is that I was born in Norfolk, parents born in England but both sets of grandparents were born in India. I'm brown. I've always called myself British and not English. DH says I've bought into the racism. And there needs to be a culture shift in seeing people who are non-white as English. And for example, brown people in Scotland call themselves Scottish and not British. And for how many more generations will my descendents call themselves British and not English.

We have a baby DC and I would have also described her as British and not English. He said we should raise her to say she is English. But I feel like that isn't right. AIBU?

My parents are Lithuanian. I have never once described myself as Lithuanian British. Why do they need to add the Indian in there?

https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizenship/born-in-the-uk-between-1-january-1983-and-1-october-2000

Actually it depends on when you were born.

Exactly this.
I am English.
On another tac..I can't understand Americans who say they are 'Irish American ' IMO. You could only be this if one parent was Irish and the other American.

In pure language terms you are both British and English.

Anyone born in Great Britain (so the countries of Scotland, Wales and England) is British by nationality. But they are also Scottish, Welsh or English dependent on where they were born. Of course someone born in England but brought up totally in Scotland may say they are Scottish as that is how they feel.

I've never heard of English being exclusively for white people and think that's ridiculous. I'm English and British. Both my parents are from different countries so they aren't British at all. I was born here and grew up here.

You are both British and English as am I. I was born in another country to white British parents raised in England since the age of 2.

I don't think 'English ' means much tbh, the English have a mixture of genes going back thousands of years. It isn't an ethnicity and my passport is British but its where I grew up.

@TomeTome I've no idea where you are getting your ideas from but they are completely and utterly wrong.

Your husband is English.

@Boredatthemoment wtf? I'm Scottish, never describe myself as British and never will. My nationality is Scottish, that's the option I tick on forms

Rude.

I'm not sure that's true. I think the OP is British because her parents were born in England and were presumably born before 1983.

I think the OP's husband is likely to be either British or Indian because his parents were born in India. If he was born before 1983, he is British because he was born in the UK. If he was born after then and his one of his parents had indefinite leave to remain or British citizenship, he is British. If not, he is Indian.

Or at least, that's how I read the gov.uk site.

She completely and utterly right. 1983.

I don't really understand why being called English, Scottish etc rather than British is less racist. British is a nationality, and English and Scottish are subdivisions of that nationality. Neither of them has anything to do with race. For what it's worth, I'm white and both English and British, but I prefer the term British because it's my subjective impression that most racists prefer English (if they are English, which most of the racists I know are).

I think if you insist on your child being called English you will not be sending out the message you think you are.

I’m one of the 25% who didn’t think you were being unreasonable. But that’s because I describe myself, and my children, as white British. My own heritage is an Irish / English mix (parents generation) and Irish / Welsh / English in earlier generations. I was born and raised in England.

I’m confused by this. “English” is a subset of “British”. England is a part of Britain.

As far as I’m concerned, if you’re British but not English, then you must be Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish, or a national of a UK overseas territory.

I don’t see how you can be born in England, live in England, have a British passport issued in England, but call yourself “British but not English”.

I use British as I have Irish and Welsh ancestry as well as English. England is just where I was born not who I am.

Before 1984 (I think I can’t be arsed to look it up as it obviously doesn’t impact you or you would know this) if you were born in England you automatically were British and eligible for a British passport. After that date you needed to show at least one of your parents was British in order to qualify.

As far as I’m concerned, if you’re British but not English, then you must be Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish, or a national of a UK overseas territory. or both your parents were British but you were born elsewhere.

Yes, we were both born and raised here in England and have never lived anywhere else.

Not quite.

If neither of his parents had settled status in the UK at the time of his birth, then he wouldn't have been entitled to British citizenship at birth. However, the whole family could have become British citizens in the interim.

That's not correct either. You can still be British if you're born in Britain and one of your parents has settled status in Britain at the time of your birth. They don't need to have British nationality.

My dna says I’m 100% the area where I was born-but I still just call myself British. It wouldn't enter my head to say I was English if asked. My passport says British-I get you OP. My friend is married to someone whose family is Indian but was born here-he says he’s a British Indian.

It's because you've used '--' to break up a paragraph, it triggers the strike through function.

OP, as PPs say you're both British and English, but I too would always describe myself as British first, unless pushed to say where I was born. I'm not sure why.

See, happened again. @Standandwait it's using two hyphens together that are the problem.

Well, I never knew that, thanks for that Lougle

I'm also finding this thread very interesting, as a non Brit.

I always assumed everyone who is born in the UK (or elsewhere of British parents) is British by default, then they are also Welsh /Scottish /Irish /English depending on where they were born /raised.

Which is objectively true, but I didn't realise there could be different connotations or preferences if you are from a different ethnicity (although I see from PPS that's not necessarily the case).

Personally, I think that it's a totally personal choice how you descirbe yourself. For most people it's where they were raised, that's where you consider yourself from.

In the case of OP, you're both English and British, as is your DC.

If somebody asked me my nationality, I would say British. If I am overseas and asked where I am from I would reply “the UK”.

I would be unlikely to say I am English unless somebody was trying to determine this specifically and I also cannot imagine replying that I am “from England” if somebody asked me that question as I tend to think of the country as a whole.

I do of course agree that I am English and live in England, it just isn’t how I describe myself. It also has nothing to do with skin colour.

I feel like if I heard in a conversation someone describe a person I haven't met yet as English, I would assume they were white. But perhaps that's my own learned prejudice?

When people ask DH where he's from he always says England/or he's English. Whereas I might say I was born here but my family is Indian. Which is what I assume people are trying to gauge... DH also says he can't say he's Indian because it's not at all a place or culture he identifies with or somewhere he's been etc. He says if we have to class people by their ancestry like this then not many white people are really English either. Urgh. I just feel like nobody thinks like this.

He will however say his parents are Indian. I find this strange as I do feel like my culture at home is Indian and not English. But then DH thinks there is no particular English culture as it is made up of so many different backgrounds and purely by being in this country, whatever you do = English culture. I completely disagree with that as I feel like it takes away from say for eg. the Indian culture.