British or English?

[moijejoue]

DH is born in London. Both his parents were born in India They're all brown. I would have described DH as British Indian. DH says he isn't Indian, can't speak the language, has never been and doesn't know anything about it and is English.

My background is that I was born in Norfolk, parents born in England but both sets of grandparents were born in India. I'm brown. I've always called myself British and not English. DH says I've bought into the racism. And there needs to be a culture shift in seeing people who are non-white as English. And for example, brown people in Scotland call themselves Scottish and not British. And for how many more generations will my descendents call themselves British and not English.

We have a baby DC and I would have also described her as British and not English. He said we should raise her to say she is English. But I feel like that isn't right. AIBU?

You're both.

Depending on the context I vary my specificity - so on official stuff, British. When talking to someone, I might say English, but I'd probably actually jump to the county I'm from, depending on why they're asking/how likely it is they'll already realise I'm English from my accent.

My son doesn't describe himself as English or British - despite looking it, having citizenship, and the accent, because he was born elsewhere and has spent only about 2 years of his life living in the UK.

Apologies that should say not NECESSARILY born in England.

so if you are the child of British parents you can gain nationality through them but not be English, or if you are an immigrant you can become British but not English. OP and her husband are both British and English though they have ancestors from other places.

I'm white, born in England 3 out of 4 grandparents born in the UK. I call myself British, partly because it feels a bit more modern and English feels more old fashioned, and partly because British feels more positive, and I'm not very proud of being English (I know, I know, the BRITISH empire wasn't entirely positive!)

And I've had too many years of cringing at hearing people lazily saying "English" to describe Scottish and Welsh.

I agree. I have been questioned by white people too much to call myself English. British works for me.

Great Britain is the official collective name of of England, Scotland and Wales and their associated islands. It does not include Northern Ireland and therefore should never be used interchangeably with 'UK.

People born in Scotland and Wales generally refer to them selves as Scottish/Welsh first, then British at a push (because neither wanted to be part of England historically) just as those born in England are English. But because of the hijacking of "Englishness' by the far right, English tend to call themselves British.

British is not only the government choice and the modern choice

Lots of Scots and Welsh would disagree with it being "the modern choice"

@Standandwait

It's when you use two of these -- and two more, that creates a strike through of whatever is between them

You are both English and British. It’s up to you which one you pick when describing yourself.

I know two Americans who live and work here on visas etc. They have a daughter who was born here in England - her nationality is American.

Where you're born doesn't necessarily define your nationality/ethnicity

British and English, but without British/English heritage.

Being born in England stopped making you british in the mid 80s.

Ick at the use of “coloured” 😳

Also, I’d suggest you look up why the British/not British is really important, especially to British people who are not English (regardless of their skin colour - I’m speaking about Scotland and Wales primarily)

@MercanDede

Everyone has 1,073,741,824 (just over a billion) ancestors from 1,000 years ago. So all your other ancestors came from somewhere else, somewhen else.

The total population of the world was only between 250 and 350 million, do you wouldn't have had over a billion ancestors.😁

Yes, @Vallmo47 please don’t say ‘coloured’.

It comes from you putting two dashes next to each other ... everything between two sets of double dashes gets scored through and is a standard formatting tool. You're only supposed to use a single dash/hyphen so not MN fault!

don't use double dashes

That's interesting ... it's picked up on your double dashes and included those as the first set even though they're in a quotation ...

don't use double dashes

I say I am English as I don't want people to think I am Welsh or Scottish

I say Welsh as I don't want anyone to think I am English.

I think you’re both right, she’s both British and English. I was born and brought up in England and grew up saying English, I can’t remember when I started saying British, but I think it was because I didn’t identify with racist flag wavers etc. I’m white.

I find that when I’m abroad people often refer to me as English as a default, rather than British. I don’t think they would know from my accent. I will often say English as that rolls off the tongue more easily. Interesting thread, I have a few things to find out about.

My ex was born to Indian parents - he would refer to himself as British Asian. Our kids embrace both sides of their culture but don’t speak their dad’s mother tongue language but do connect to parts of the culture.

I can't see crossed out lines but if you put -- before text without a space and after the text without a space, it's a strike through of the text in between.

this text has two hyphens either side of it without a space

I think this is a matter of personal identity rather than an exact science.

If your DH was born in England, has lived all his life in England and considers himself to be English, then as far as I'm concerned, he's English. If you would prefer to describe yourself as British and/or as British Indian, then that's valid too. Your dc will eventually decide what identity feels most comfortable to them.

I'm white and I was born in England but would describe myself as British rather than English as I have lots of Irish/Welsh heritage. DH was born in India and now has a British passport - he describes himself as British Indian. DD considers herself to be British and Indian, but not British Indian.

Do you have the right to a British passport? If so, you're British. If you don't, you're Indian. But I'm happy to be corrected!

As nationalities go, the passport is British.

I was born in England to Scottish parents and spent most of my childhood in Scotland.

If I was to identify with a nation it would be Scotland, but there is no Scottish nationality.