Problem with person at hobby group

[ClippyCloppy]

Hi after some advice

I joined a group as a hobby a couple of months ago, we meet each week. I’m really enjoying this and the people are awesome! They are a lot older than me, mainly retired, a bit quirky, really interesting and I feel like I’ve met my tribe- I’ve never really gelled with anyone.

However, one member of the group is very annoying- he’s my age (so younger than the rest, although not sure if that’s relevant). He’s extremely opinionated, has a lot less knowledge of what we do compared to everyone else, loud and brash, sarcastic and basically I’ve really tried to get on with him, I’ve chatted to him in the break time but despite trying I just don’t like him at all.

I feel he spoils the aim of why we meet. This is not a paid a group, it’s just a group of individuals who share a specific interest and enjoy meeting up.

How can I move forward? I don’t want to stop going, and I know he has just as much ‘right’ to be there as me.

I’m retired and in loads of hobby groups.

In the book group, there’s someone who dominates the conversation and always manages to bring it round to her experience with Kurdish refugees. In the ukulele group, the leader constantly dithers and changes her mind about what we’re doing next. In the choir, we are told where to sit. The person who does the seating plan seems to move me every 2 or 3 weeks and one person who I was sat next to answered the questions I asked her (“What’s your name? How long have you been part of the choir?”) with brief, factual answers but showed zero interest in me and never talked to me again. One member of another group goes off on long winded stories and explanations, only tangentially related to what we’re there for.

There’s usually one, OP, and often several. You will probably find, as has already been said, that others find him as irritating as you. Some strategies have already been suggested. Ultimately, you either find a strategy which enables you to coexist with him (and you might find allies within the group to help with this)…… or if that doesn’t seem to be possible and it’s ruining your enjoyment of the group, you leave.

We initially joined a community choir as well as the more formal choir. The leader of that ground me down in various ways, until I had eventually had enough, and left. I am far from being the only one - loads of others have moved as well. We have also moved from one formal choir to the new one, because the conductor of the previous one was very demanding and not encouraging, with the result that rehearsals were not enjoyable. We’ve discovered about half a dozen members of the new choir used to be part of the old choir, but left for the same reason as us.

At the end of the day, hobbies are meant to enhance your life and bring you pleasure. Only you can decide how much is too much. If you love your music - and what you’ve described is quite niche and not easy to replace - then you are probably motivated to find a way to coexist. But if the stress is ruining the enjoyment, you have to ask yourself if it’s worth it.

Challenging him is a way: “Why do you say that, Fred?” “What’s your source for that, Fred?” And then of course “That’s interesting, Fred….. what do others think?” That last could be particularly useful….. if everyone else disagrees with Fred, he’s not going to get his way. You may just need to provide the space which will enable others to speak up. Or if the issue is the time he’s taking up with his pontificating, something like “Shall we get on with some playing now?” at regular intervals might work.

Try and find some way to humiliate him in public.

🤣🤣

Great suggestions and glad I’m not the only one! As most members are retired and I believe attend lots of other hobby groups, they’re probably like you and have encountered this problem in most groups. Maybe they are therefore desensitised to it!

You’re right- hobbies are definitely there to enhance our lives and I really do enjoy this. I’ve always prioritised work and family and now in my forties decided to do something just for me. I feel much happier with this fact and have found something which is both enjoyable and challenging.

I’ve never spent any length of time with people of an older generation (don’t really have any family apart from my husband and children), I have to say I’m loving how knowledgeable, interesting and straight talking these people are. They are fascinating. I’ve not met anyone of my age group (or younger) who doesn’t either endlessly talk about themselves, moan, are quite shallow or just downright boring. (I’m not suggesting in any way people like this don’t exist from any age group- it’s just my personal experience). I’m therefore thoroughly enjoying this from a social perspective- it’s like a breath of fresh air!

@ClippyCloppy I’m therefore thoroughly enjoying this from a social perspective- it’s like a breath of fresh air!

All the more reason then to find a way to either bring Dave/Fred into line, or get the group to invite him to leave.

Since my first reply I’ve read more of the thread, and see that you are a soloist. You must be an accomplished musician if you’ve been given that after just a couple of months. You are more important to the group than he is.

Not that I’m suggesting you play on that of course, but…. maybe a quiet word with the group leader expressing your concerns? You have concerts coming up - and if Dave/Fred is not taking correction about his playing style, the leader may think his presence is detracting from the group and you’d be better off without him.

Unless he’s the only Viola, or something.

Dave is really pissing me off.

Talk to him like he's a really chatty child.

Say things like, huh, I did not know that can you explain why? How weird, how odd, hmm, interesting.

Do not reinforce him with laughing at things that aren't funny, just make huh, oh, ah, hm noises at him.

This is life. There are loads of annoying people around. All you have to do is to find a way to get along without resorting to bullying or belittling him in front of others. Yes he sounds annoying, but he doesn’t sound cruel and doesn’t deserve your hatred.

I would not have clicked YABU if your OP said baroque chamber orchestra rather than hobby group!

If he plays baroque music like classical, you have to kick him out. There is no other way. I don't understand how he joined in the first place.

Does he not have a baroque bow? He would not be able to sound classical (with long legatos etc) with a baroque bow.

As you're a new member yourself perhaps best to have a private word with the leader yourself and say you're finding Dave's behaviour a bit difficult and has he always been like this, that kind of thing. You may find out more. Is he a beginner or what? He reminds me slightly of the behaviour of a member of one of my groups who is genuinely an expert in a very different instrument but doesn't have the physical skills on the instrument he's playing [yet].

My suggestion would be be patronising at him. He'll hate it if he's an arrogant so-and-so, but if you can convince him what he's doing is showing everyone he's a weak player not a strong one, he'll do everything to demonstrate his skill at being subtle. Maybe the leader could have a quiet word and say they've noticed he's finding the baroque bowing style difficult and would he like some tips.

You're kind of awkwardly placed as new member, but also you're in a position to bring new ideas and say 'in a group I used to play in we did xyz, could we try that?'. If you're soloist they clearly rate your expertise too.

What about some contrast exercises - everyone play a scale in their best big beefy Brahms style, now everyone play a scale in their best pianissimo transparent baroque style. So he sees that everyone can play the way he does, but they have the skill not to as well. Okay, could we get that even better blended? Does anyone's sound stick out? Okay, what if [OP] is playing a solo line. Same scale but OP plays a bit more. Now [Dave] is the solo. Now [cello] is the solo. Oops Dave, you're sticking out again, remember that pianissimo stroke?

Scales in tune-up time is an absolute no-no, but I guess if he's relatively new to the whole thing he might not have twigged. He gets bonus points from me for warming up with scales not concertos at least, but he needs to shut up when it's tuning time. 'Sorry, could I have the A again, Dave was still warming up and I couldn't hear myself properly.'

It's easy to challenge his odd ideas about how baroque music should be played. Much of what we know about performance practice of that period is from a handful of written sources. Just ask him which book he bases his opinion on. When he goes quiet, tell him this book says this about vibrato, ornaments in German baroque, or whatever.

Why doesn't the group's leader tell everyone how to perform? You can't have people going about with their own idea of baroque interpretation in a chamber orchestra.

Can't do that can they !

It's all got to be vague and drip fed for ages

To be fair @topnoddy they have now 🙂

Hatred?? Not sure where that came from. I do think I’ll start calling him Dave though, it seems apt

What? I said the hobby within a couple of minutes of posting the op! And that was only because I was asked to. However, not sure how this would be a drip feed anyway as this is a general problem encountered in many hobby groups regardless of what the hobby is.

The leader does tell him! (And us if necessary). I’ve put more details in other posts on this thread

I’m not a new member! It was founded by the leader and I was the first person to join him. We then recruited others to join us (the leader recruited Dave, however he was under the impression he was reasonably accomplished at that time).

He’s (Dave) new to the whole playing with others, especially in a chamber scenario. He is essentially self taught, he doesn’t have the musical training or theoretical knowledge everyone (most of us) else has. We often (me mainly) demonstrate passages to show different techniques/ bowing styles but he either doesn’t do it effectively or then forgets moments later. As I said previously, this is not necessarily about lack of knowledge- it’s about arrogance and inability to understand improvement or just plain belligerence.

I appreciate the idea of warm up exercises such as forte / pianissimo, or vibrato / non vibrato, but to be honest this is something I would do when teaching. It’s not something that is appropriate in this setting with accomplished musicians (apart from Dave) and I feel it would be a tad patronising.

I have made a pained expression when tuning and have loudly said sorry I can’t hear the A, sometimes he shuts up, sometimes he’s oblivious 😂

You have my sympathies and not sure I can offer any useful advice.

I have a similar individual in my amateur music group. It’s much lower level music than yours sounds. He just cannot keep to the beat. Always a half beat early.

I nearly quit at one point as I played the same part as him. I couldn’t work out whether to play correctly (but not with him) or try and guess his wrongness and play that with him. 🙄

In the end I got a different (but similar) instrument so I could play a different part. And made my excuses to sit at the end of the row away from him so I don’t have to hear every single wrong note he plays.

He even admitted once that he never listens to anyone else. In a group setting that plays music together. Not helpful.

And he can’t play quietly at all.
And seems to have the skin of a rhino.

He’s totally aggravating and I constantly hope he’ll quit but he’s the one who turns up every sodding week without fail.

Its terrible but he’s not v young and I hope the inevitable happens for him sooner rather than later as he wrecks the music we play.

This made me laugh! Don’t get me started on inability to feel the pulse or being incapable of counting rests. We were only in common time counting up to 4 😂 He often decides to count in quavers and come in half a bar early aaargh!

We all have baroque bows and our leader is a bit of a collector of all things musical (instruments, bows accessories). He was lent a baroque bow by our leader but returned it the following week complaining that it wasn’t long enough or gave a resonant sound. Dick

like the viola comment 😂 (only joking violas are very important especially in this context). He’s second violin. He mentioned last week he wanted to do a solo with me for one of the double violin concertos (Bach double in D or Vivaldi’s A minor) in our May concert. That may be a tricky conversation!

Has anyone said straight: God almighty Dave, quit with the sodding vibrato! You sound like Handel just got dumped!

I don't really know enough about music to comment, but could he be told he must play with a baroque bow for performances, as that's how to achieve the sound the group is aiming for?

If he doesn't enjoy playing with the baroque bow, maybe that will help him twig that this style of music isn't quite right for what he wants to do?

Some of this sounds like etiquette that he just doesn't know? Has anyone said to him really bluntly e.g. "don't play scales when we are tuning"?

Dave is an insufferable prick. The leader really ought to be asking him to leave. Truly. I wonder if the leader would let all this slide if Dave was Denise? Oh and ignore the mra trolls. They love jumping on threads to criticize women. Don't give them any attention.

It sounds like the wrong group for him. If he isn't adding anything of value to the group, then perhaps the leader should ask him to leave.