Problem with person at hobby group

[ClippyCloppy]

Hi after some advice

I joined a group as a hobby a couple of months ago, we meet each week. I’m really enjoying this and the people are awesome! They are a lot older than me, mainly retired, a bit quirky, really interesting and I feel like I’ve met my tribe- I’ve never really gelled with anyone.

However, one member of the group is very annoying- he’s my age (so younger than the rest, although not sure if that’s relevant). He’s extremely opinionated, has a lot less knowledge of what we do compared to everyone else, loud and brash, sarcastic and basically I’ve really tried to get on with him, I’ve chatted to him in the break time but despite trying I just don’t like him at all.

I feel he spoils the aim of why we meet. This is not a paid a group, it’s just a group of individuals who share a specific interest and enjoy meeting up.

How can I move forward? I don’t want to stop going, and I know he has just as much ‘right’ to be there as me.

Both my hobby group (micro electronics) and a band I used to play in had an irritating domineering woman - let’s not bring sexism into it, as these kinds of people exist in both genders.

I agree, it’s not because he’s a man.

How do the others feel/react?

I wouldn’t be too sure, a man who likes the sound of his own voice will be drawn to female groups.

I’ve had one like this. Total wanker.

I’d just ignore him ie. when he starts talking irrelevant shite I’d stare at the authoritative woman who doesn’t mind arguing and look really bored.

If he likes arguing for argument’s sake he’ll do one of two things - either realise he’s alienating people or shut up - or try and start an argument about that.

If he does, I’d say what you’ve said here - ‘We are all here to learn and I am happy to engage in meaningful discussion but this ain’t that. We don’t have time to deal with persistent and belligerent misunderstanding. It’s a chamber group, not a debate society. Hard facts, Dave, you’re by no means an authority, and you are wasting everyone’s time with this waffle. This is a great opportunity - why not take it?’

either that or fume, I know what I’d rather do.

How I deal with people who don't like feedback is to put them at their ease, praise the things they do well, listen with respect to their suggestions and then explain why I've made the decision I have made. It's the more insecure people who shout the loudest and you've identified that he is self taught and struggles. Getting team synergy sometimes requires a helping hand.

Can he be shut down as soon as he starts?

So he says 'We need to do such and such'

And the leader or one of the rest of you say 'No, that won't work because... and we need to start now.' Count you all in and off you go.

I think they find him annoying, but remain pleasant and supportive. Either they have a higher tolerance than me or they hide their feelings better.

Trouble with Baroque music though, is that you're only as strong as your weakest link. It's so pared back and transparent. Vibrato will always be heard, it projects more. A lack of understanding of Baroque bow technique will ruin it for you all as you won't be able to create the shapes you like, as will poor intonation.

I think your group leader should be asking him to move to a less experienced group, and audition again in a few years when he's learnt some technique.

I have experienced this, and I'm afraid that my answer was to leave. But as you're the soloist I can appreciate that this isn't something you can or want to do. I think he should be gently encouraged to fuck off.

Play dickhead bingo.

Is he starting these discussions, or just not taking feedback?

If he is the one saying “hey stop everyone, this would sound much better if we all used a lot of vibrato!” then the response should be grey-rock “no Dave, that’s not how Baroque music works. Let’s move on”.

If people are stopping him and saying “Dave you were using too much vibrato there, can you tone it down? Let’s try again” and he is arguing back that vibrato is the best and Handel definitely used it all the time…. honestly just stop providing feedback. He clearly can’t accept it constructively. This is how he plays, and he isn’t going to change.

That’s a really good response. Thank you 😊 I actually wish his name was Dave, it would sound so funny saying that

It's not unusual to find an annoying person in a group like this. It's hard to ignore annoying folk but you've no choice if you want to keep going. I wouldn't bother challenging him.

I don't know this much about baroque music, but I'd reached the same conclusion! If he's not playing the right way/the same way as everyone else he needs to go, purely on technical grounds. Ignore his personality & get him thrown out for that reason.

I think your group leader should be asking him to move to a less experienced group, and audition again in a few years when he's learnt some technique.

Exactly. It’s not kind for the group to have to deal with this man.

I don't know how the power dynamics work in your group, but as the soloist you might have quite a lot of authority, others might be looking to this on what to do. Maybe you should discuss the issue with the group leader, to address the issue more directly.

It’s a bit of both. Our leader will say things like, this is where the cello has the melody so we all (others) need to pipe down here. (We already are apart from numpty who’s playing as if he’s doing a romantic cadenza 😂), sometimes he will take this onboard and cooperate, but then the following week we’ll do the same section and he’s back to doing his Paganini impression.

Other times he’ll make suggestions (which imo are ludicrous) and we’ll politely disagree and he’ll do a sad face, or shrug his shoulders as if he’s really put out.

I agree he’s never going to change. I wish I could subtly point out being a good performer within a chamber group doesn’t mean playing the loudest, using the most bow or the fastest vibrato 😬

Gentle encouraged to fuck off 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

maybe I should mention this at the start when we’re all trying to tune and he is blatantly playing 3 octave scales in one bow as his warm up 🤣. Honestly it’s like being 12 again at orchestra rehearsal where we all felt we competitively had to prove we were ‘the best’ lol

I keep quoting the wrong post so sorry!

Exactly- I meant to quote you in my previous post sorry

I think you should join our group 🙏

Maybe it’s the Dunning-Kruger effect, and he’s at step 1, as he hits step 2 he may realise there is a whole lot he doesn’t know and offer less opinions. Or maybe he’s a knob and will never shut up.

1. Unconscious incompetence: You’re ignorant of what you don’t know.
2. Conscious incompetence: You’re aware of what you don’t know, but you haven’t taken steps to learn more.
3. Conscious competence: You’re actively learning and acquiring knowledge about a subject.
4. Unconscious competence: You’ve mastered a subject so extensively that you may forget or take for granted how much you truly know.

It’s not bitchy, it’s about someone hindering others for delaying fulfilling their goals

I do a part time job that doesn’t have regular days, think seasons, in a team of 15. There is one person who I just can’t tolerate; they endlessly talk about themselves. I love a PP’s idea of giving points, I’m going to make up a Bingo game for the next time I’m with them. 😄