To complain about teacher's behaviour

[Ilovechocolate87]

Last night after tea, DD (6) said to younger DD (2) 'Don't you dare do that' (touch her food) in a menacing voice.It isn't something we would say, as I think it's a nasty way to speak to someone, so i asked her where she got it from, to which she replied that her teacher had shouted at a boy in her class (year 1) 'don't you dare interuppt me when I'm talking' and re-inacted it in a thunderous sort of voice.

If she was telling me the teacher was saying such things to her I would be in no doubt to complain, as its clearly threatening behaviour, but as it wasn't at her (and she confirms she has never shouted at her) I'm on the fence whether to say anything or not about it .I've re-iterated to DD not to speak to her little sister like that, explaining that even if the teacher did it, it is still wrong.She told me when I asked that it doesn't scare her when the teacher shouts (she has very sensitive hearing and is often scared if we shout at home) but i'm not really liking that she is seeing someone who should be a professional and a role model behaving in that way towards any child.

As I'm sure you realise the intervention has to fit the DC. For my autistic DD fidgets do help her to regulate. I think some posters don't realise there is no one size fits all. Asking me what would you do if X happens...without knowing the child or full situation I can't really say!

Are you usually on a 1-1 with them though and have time to sit with them

Poor teacher probably has 29 other dc to consider at the same time.

So you wouldn't allow a DC to use a fidget toy where it helps them discretely regulate and able to access the classroom?

Just to be clear as some don't seem to realise this the suggestion of a fidget toy was what first came to mind as it's something my DD uses. I was not suggesting it as the answer to all classroom management issues! 😂

It depends on the DC if they have a 1:1. Many that should have had didn't and I do realise that has got worse. However, my experience is that teachers are able to manage things quite well themselves if the right intervention is used.

Pupils in the situation I asked you about are not necessarily "worked up". Deliberate defiance such as I mentioned doesn't necessarily come from being "worked up". I suspect that you haven't spent years managing classes of openly defiant pupils.

No mention of how teachers "manage" if they have absolutely no support from management either.

Many suggestions for children who interrupt require extra support. Brain breaks is a common one. I have been known to teach a class sitting on the carpet whilst standing in the doorway to the playground while one of my children (luckily not a flight risk) ran round for five minutes as there was no one else to supervise.

No, my classes weren't like that with me.

Well, if I had to write about the full range of situations and how teachers do or do not manage, I think we'd be here all day! 😄

'Experience working in the classroom' is not the same as experience managing a class though is it? In an ideal world I too would have responded in the way you describe when faced with a child trashing my classroom whilst his classmates were cowering in fear in the cloakroom. It's quite difficult to breeze around when there are items of furniture being launched around the place. And when you're not permitted to physically intervene because you haven't had the 'team teach' training, and you have used every other strategy under the sun, your voice is all you have.

Yep.. have been in meeting when the CCTV footage shows their child setting off the fire alarm and the parent still denies it’s their child.

luckily most parents are great but there’s a growing number like the OP who think they know what went on in a classroom even though they’re not there and feel it’s their right to complain about it.

Hence the teacher recruitment and retention crisis.

Some of the parents on this thread should be ashamed of themselves. The silly thing is, it would only take one morning trying to manage a class of 30 kids (or even being a fly on the wall in a classroom) to make them understand. But they only ever see the issue through the eyes of their own child, or through their own 'tiger mum' eyes. They totally fail to recognise that proper classroom management benefits all learners, and that what they perceive as harsh discipline is often water off a duck's back to kids. Teachers have no power, and kids know it. So remember that when you are complaining about the 'naughty kids' disrupting your child's education week-in, week-out.

I really wouldn't say anything.

Kids can end up with a very different version of events to what actually occurred. You have no idea of the exact tone of voice/words/context in which it was said.

I teach secondary science and there are probably times when something I say could sound like I was shouting, if taken out of context. For instance, last week, 30 year 8s doing a practical involving glass ware. No misbehaviour but I suddenly heard glass smashing and said, loudly 'Y8, stop and track me' which they did.

My voice was probably louder than usual as there was more noise than normal. I may have sounded firmer than normal as well.

However, I didn't 'shout' or 'roar' at the class, nor was it 'menacing'. It was a firm, clear instruction given in the interest of safety.

Just tell dd not to say that to her sister.

Wow. That’s awful.

My DM was a primary school teacher in rough inner city London areas for many years, I saw her this weekend and asked what she’d have done and if she’d have said the same as here. She said generally she didn’t need to say this but sometimes you have to be firm and raise your voice.

What’s interesting is I recall her saying towards the end of her teaching career that a pupil would on occasion claim that the teacher had roughly handled him/her, most of this was the pupil over reacting and starting to get parents involved and as a few posters here say, parents thinking they’re right and wanting to interfere and think their children are right (when often they’re not). When I helped on the odd occasion as a teenager, yes, there were some teachers who were horrendous and used awful language about some children, but the vast majority were great, just doing a demanding job.

Many children these days claim that teachers are shouting. Usually they mean a slightly loud, firm voice, which is sometimes needed to cut through the noise, or maintain safety. I hear very, very little actual shouting around school.

No, my classes weren't like that with me.

Is anyone else finding @UndertheCedartree unbearably smug and unhelpful in terms of actual ideas (apart from the random comment about givers toys 😂)?

Ok you have to have experience managing a class.

I'm really not meaning to be!! I'm really not smug in real life! I'm just not sure how else to respond to that poster throwing what would you do in this situation at me!! These situations are complex I can't answer based on such little information. But I also did find certain teachers having 'all the pupils completely disobedient and answering back' just weren't very good teachers. Sorry, that's just my honest opinion.

And fidgets for children with certain issues can work really well. If it helps a child engage why would you dismiss it? That's not good teaching, imo.

I can assure you that the openly defiant pupils in the school I taught at were like that with virtually all the staff. One of them actually assaulted the deputy head. When his parents were called in one of my class said he'd be straight back in school as his mother would threaten to go to the papers. When the deputy objected the HT told him to shut up otherwise he could forget about a reference (he was applying for headships at the time). My HT simply wasn't prepared to go against parents.

But you carry on suggesting that defiant pupils are only defiant because teachers are incapable.

What a great thread for those studying group dynamics/Psychology. It's really interesting to see how the group moved from bullying the OP, to trying to bully me and now trying to bully Cedar. Ironically, it's actually going to be a valuable teaching tool!

You don't sound smug at all, Cedar, you sound like someone with their own view, that is different from other people's. Some people just find that triggering.

You don't need to assure me. I'm not judging you based on a MN post. I do feel you've been rather judgemental of me, though. It sounds pretty clear that there was a hell of a lot going wrong with that school. As I said situations are complex.

And I've no where said 'teachers' are incapable. Myself and most of my colleagues weren't incapable. Most of my DC's teachers haven't been either. Some though have been terrible and some have been exceptional.

Thanks, @Repurposing Gosh, yes, the psychology of MN!

It's a shame when people are so keen to try and jump on and attack others, rather than listening.

At least I haven't called you unbearably smug....

Stop throwing around the bullying label. When you use it often enough it becomes meaningless.