To complain about teacher's behaviour

[Ilovechocolate87]

Last night after tea, DD (6) said to younger DD (2) 'Don't you dare do that' (touch her food) in a menacing voice.It isn't something we would say, as I think it's a nasty way to speak to someone, so i asked her where she got it from, to which she replied that her teacher had shouted at a boy in her class (year 1) 'don't you dare interuppt me when I'm talking' and re-inacted it in a thunderous sort of voice.

If she was telling me the teacher was saying such things to her I would be in no doubt to complain, as its clearly threatening behaviour, but as it wasn't at her (and she confirms she has never shouted at her) I'm on the fence whether to say anything or not about it .I've re-iterated to DD not to speak to her little sister like that, explaining that even if the teacher did it, it is still wrong.She told me when I asked that it doesn't scare her when the teacher shouts (she has very sensitive hearing and is often scared if we shout at home) but i'm not really liking that she is seeing someone who should be a professional and a role model behaving in that way towards any child.

OP, be glad your child’s teacher tries to discipline their class. I’m a secondary teacher and we are constantly told to be “mindful” of our language. We are not allowed to raise our voice and must remind students of code of conduct. Seems reasonable to us adults - teenagers take the piss. Students at my school know they hold the power. I spend so much time reminding students to be quiet to allow their peers to learn. I’m just glad my own children go to schools where their teachers can be firm so they can learn.

This is not about 'picking battles', you're just wanting to fight for no good reason.

So the OP is going to deregister and get the thread deleted. I'm surprised that took so long.

There have been plenty of measured, constructive responses. She just didn't want to hear them.

One of my closest friends gave up her very successful teaching career on this issue. She was going into class daily terrified for her own safety and that of her class because of the inability of her SLT to deal with the behaviour. A year after she left, the school was threatened with Special Measures by OFSTED. The reason? Pupil behaviour and the ineffectiveness of SLT. Exactly why she left.
I don’t live in an inner city. This school was considered one of the best secondary schools in our semi rural area. A tragedy and a scandal that she was put in that position where pupils had all the power no matter what they did. If someone complained about her, she and her peers had no support at all.
So many critics of teachers perceive teachers to have all this power and in reality, they are in a horribly complex and vulnerable relationship of gvt, parents, SLT and pupils. I think this is why many of these posts are so protective of the teacher who is in OP‘s crosshairs.

Just before you go, op, I’ll ask again because I dont think you answered.

A bunch of 30 kids, with an LO for the lesson to achieve and individual targets for all 30. Some of those withSEN, some just being kids and wanting to play and talk, the odd one being violent. That one perhaps getting annoyed and wound up, perhaps already throwing something, and about to kick and punch the teacher or another classmate.

What would you have done?

To anyone who has ever watched a documentary about a hellish sink school and marvelled that it exists : that is the direction of travel for most secondary schools now.

Certainly when I talk to colleagues from education all over the country. We endlessly ask why. Covid, social media, decades of telling kids about their rights and importance, erosion of sanctions as parents complain about bloody everything, government closing special schools whilst simultaneously making it impossible to permanently exclude kids unsuited to mainstream education. No idea.

But in my school, it's the parents. And teaching staff without the time or will to stand up to them. Give in to their demands or deal with ten more increasingly unhinged emails, social media posts, threats to go to the press, threats to get their lawyer involved.

Here are just some of the negative comments from just the last two pages of the thread. These comments seek to belittle to OP, to make her doubt herself, to make her feel stupid for raising her concern. They in no way seek to support or help the OP. Imagine having to read page after page of this. This is bullying and everyone know it is, to say otherwise is disingenuous.

Your behaviour is bullying and harassment
I pity the teacher for having you as a parent
Kids are arseholes
You fucking try it
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone with such a lack of any type of self reflection?
Absence of emotional maturity
You want forgiveness for your bad choices OP?
You are not only being unreasonable but veering into the territory of irrational
You sound absolutely clueless!
Parents like you are why there there is so many leaving the profession
Do better for your child.
Get a grip.
OP is part of what makes this country so shit at the moment.
Good bit of DARVO on your part
Give your head a wobble, don't be so ridiculous
The OP has made a big song and dance
The OP wants to complain rather than parent.
Being THAT parent
You have failed as a parent
OP’s position is utterly astounding
We await your superior understanding
What an awful person you are
OP is an example of one of the reasons experienced and capable teachers are walking away from the job
Sort yourself out
Irrational and unreasonable

I’m not just a teacher. I think the posters supporting the OP need to understand that many of us ‘teachers’ are mothers too!

To be honest, as a mum I’m truly concerned about what is happening in schools with this complaint culture on top of everything else landed on teachers.

I have friends at our local secondary schools and what they describe is carnage and the role of complaining parents who do not support schools with behaviour of their children is a HUGE part of that. Frank in reception being disciplined which causes mummy to storm in like mumma bear and shout at the teacher after being egged on by parents on the playground, suddenly turns into Frank in year 11 who is abusive to all staff and often very VERY difficult at home and mum is begging for support. It’s so utterly UTTERLY predictable.

I don’t want my daughters in a classroom with several Franks. I want my daughters to have an education because ultimately that’s what school is for!

This thread reminds me of a story my dad used to tell about marching soldiers.

One of them complained, "Sarge, they're all out of step except me."

You missed out the OPs animal abuse. Given you’ve omitted it from your post I guess it’s not important to you.

There are hundreds of studies out there on the links with animal and child abuse. The OP openly admitted to animal abuse and shouting at a child so much the child was scared of them yet they wanted to complain about a teacher saying “don't you dare”? The comment hadn’t even been made to the OP’s child for goodness sake.

How is it bullying to point out that complaints such as this are contributing to experienced and capable teachers wanting to leave teaching?

ilovesnooty - I have no evidence that capable teachers are leaving the profession because of parents comments. What I do have evidence of is defensive behaviour and horrid bullying right here on this thread, some of it from teachers.

What do you think that tells people?

You might not have any evidence of it. It doesn't mean it isn't a contributory factor.

It's not bullying to tell the OP she's wrong and why she's wrong.

It's not bullying to point out her hypocrisy in wanting to complain about something her child was not involved in, without context - that wasn't actually anything to complain about in any case.

You have evidence now, I’m one that left education and there are many more posts on this thread from others that have left. You have absolutely no idea of the bullying teachers endure from parents and a lot of the time from SLT who are too scared to stand up to parents.

Well, OP says she's gone and will delete, so this post is probably pointless. However, when her DD potentially flunks her exams due to uncontrollable behaviour in the class hindering her learning, or potentially becomes one of the uncontrollable kids due to ineffective parenting/teaching, she may question her choices. And if her DD has kids, and a similar situation arises, she may hand her DD a grip. We can live in hope.

No you shouldn’t complain, there are no grounds for doing so.

IMO I’d be more worried about the fact that you’ve been cruel to an animal, you’ve had anger issues, and work in a nursery environment. I certainly wouldn’t want someone like you looking after a baby/toddler.

There is NEVER any excuse for being cruel to an animal, shame on you!

No evidence, despite the number of teachers on here telling you they’ve left or leaving? The evidence is HERE, just like the evidence you cited for your side of the argument.

Also just a quick Google search and you’ll find the evidence. The Guardian ran an article on it recently. The DfE have raised concerns about it (they recognise that this is an issue) after the case of the teacher who was taken to the Teacher Regulation Authority this year over an incident that hit the Sun newspaper. Parent had complained to the Sun before she’d even contacted the school.

It's not bullying if op asks for opinions and gets them. On AIBU people know they'll get unvarnished, honest opinion - that's the point. It's also easy to escape any perceived bullying by logging off or hiding the thread.

Unlike teachers who are available to angry parents throughout the school day and particularly at the classroom door at drop off or pick up. Unlike other professionals, everyone thinks they can do our job, that it's ok to comment on how we do our job, that we must provide immediate responses and solutions, that we are not allowed to be human or make mistakes. Try turning up in your dentist's or doctor's surgery, or your solicitor's office, or anywhere else and demanding instant access or an immediate resolution to a perceived problem. I remember the push to involve parents in their children's education but now they think they run schools.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Aside from that...

There are posters on this thread who have literally said that parents were the reason they left the profession and others have said that's one of the main reasons they are considering it.

...is that not evidence enough for you?

ilovesnooty - I have no evidence that capable teachers are leaving the profession because of parents comments.

Vexatious parental complaints, as well as parents backing up their child in spite of clear evidence of wrongdoing, and refusing to cooperate with perfectly reasonable school sanction policies, are part of what is driving teachers out of the profession. Do you honestly doubt that?

As far as teachers being driven out by individual complaints goes... that happens a lot too. A child maliciously and falsely complains about a teacher,or at least wildly exaggerates (usually to get themselves out of trouble, or just because they bear a grudge about something). Parents believe the child. School has to suspend the teacher while an investigation is made. The teacher is eventually found not to have done anything wrong, but the stress of the process, along with the knowledge that the students all know and will never stop spreading lies about it, makes it impossible for the teacher to stay in the school, or possibly in teaching.

I'm not even talking about very serious complaints like physical assault. This happened to someone I know well. The accusation by the (large, confident, robust, bullying) 16 year-old was that the teacher had made them 'feel unsafe in school' by shouting at them on one occasion. 5 years of tellings-off, occasional shouting, detentions etc had had no effect on this student or their behaviour. Teacher suspended for months while the school faffed around. The complaint was eventually not upheld, by which time the teacher had got another job (not in teaching). This was an effective, popular teacher (both with staff and students).

This kind of thing happens all the time. And yes, I know malicious complaints happen in other jobs too, but rarely on the say-so of children, on the basis of no initial evidence.

You're ridiculous. Hope that helps.

Ah a good old flounce and storm off!

One of my posts before was actually semi agreeing with you and being sympathetic with the pile on, but after this, it really seems like you’ve not learned much apart from, no, you probably aren’t going to complain about this teacher.

Interesting you worked in a nursery. From my interactions with nursery staff, nursery children can be different (maybe not!) to school aged children. I also know that children over exaggerate, copy, lie about things which they see or hear.

I am a very capable teacher with a proven track record over many years. I love working with children and am especially passionate about supporting children with SEND in mainstream. However, I am leaving directly as a result of the abuse and aggression I have received from parents over the last year. My mental health is in tatters and I'm not going to stay in a role that leaves you so vulnerable to abuse.

Dismiss this evidence all you like, but there's already several of us on here saying the same thing and I know more and more of my colleagues are close to breaking point.