Page 14 | I have quite strong views on prostitution

Tonight1 · 2023-11-17T04:47:51+00:00

Not at all about the women, just that I would not want to date a habitual user! Or punter as they're called. And yes this came up recently. This is discussion about how you would feel about it? AIBU - wouldn't mind YANBU - would mind

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 23:00

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 22:29

What’s a ‘basic Facebook’?

Youre his friend so he can make friends - so why does he need to use prostitutes for company? You said it’s ‘the only way he can get sex’ - then in another breath you reckon he doesn’t want sex at all.

We see you

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He got to his 40s before losing his virginity... to a prostitute. His later experiences with them were talking etc. Due to his autism, he felt lonely and paid for it. And then he was threatened with violence.. and like I said, even the police saw him as vulnerable.

I am not sure why you are making this an issue about me. I am a good friend to him, and I don't judge. We met at a support group....

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 23:00

Allinadayswork80 · 18/11/2023 22:48

I don’t disagree with the concept per se, but I do for all the reasons the PP’s have already mentioned about trafficking, pimping, abuse etc. So if a woman in her right mind, healthy, completely independently decided to escort then it’s her choice and many women can separate love/respect etc with pure sex and apparently make a pretty penny doing so. In this scenario it would seem ok. A transaction from two consenting willing parties where both know exactly what they’re doing and choosing for themselves. I have a male friend, very sweet, kind, loving, respectful but painfully shy with no self esteem or experience with women and not what ‘society’ would call attractive. But very highly sexed. I’m aware he has in the past used the services of such women and I would in no way say it dictates his overall perception of or lack of respect for women. Personally I’m not sure if I could date someone that has done so though.

This was rebutted back at https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4944504-i-have-quite-strong-views-on-prostitution?reply=130826596

TangerineNeonLight · 18/11/2023 23:00

Allinadayswork80 · 18/11/2023 22:48

I don’t disagree with the concept per se, but I do for all the reasons the PP’s have already mentioned about trafficking, pimping, abuse etc. So if a woman in her right mind, healthy, completely independently decided to escort then it’s her choice and many women can separate love/respect etc with pure sex and apparently make a pretty penny doing so. In this scenario it would seem ok. A transaction from two consenting willing parties where both know exactly what they’re doing and choosing for themselves. I have a male friend, very sweet, kind, loving, respectful but painfully shy with no self esteem or experience with women and not what ‘society’ would call attractive. But very highly sexed. I’m aware he has in the past used the services of such women and I would in no way say it dictates his overall perception of or lack of respect for women. Personally I’m not sure if I could date someone that has done so though.

How much respect can you have for someone if you're happy to inflict sex on them that you know they don't want, don't enjoy and are repulsed by? Your ugly, inadequate friend isn't entitled to sex, but he feels like he is. And it's hard to imagine your scenario where the woman providing it has freely chosen this as a brilliant and lucrative career option. How would you feel if he offered you money for sex? Or your sister, or friend, or other woman you love and care about? I'm fairly sure you'd be insulted, appalled, disgusted by the proposition.

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 23:04

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 23:00

He got to his 40s before losing his virginity... to a prostitute. His later experiences with them were talking etc. Due to his autism, he felt lonely and paid for it. And then he was threatened with violence.. and like I said, even the police saw him as vulnerable.

I am not sure why you are making this an issue about me. I am a good friend to him, and I don't judge. We met at a support group....

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You still haven’t explained why a man who dislikes sex can only have a chat in a very specific set of circumstances that involves hiring prostitutes? He has friends and can make friends and his autism isn’t so severe that he needs round the clock care - yet he ONLY has company when approached by prostitutes.

Im trying to picture it - he’s walking around with all his Facebook friends and RL friends, feeling lonely and unable to talk to a soul, and a prostitution approaches him. He says “thank god! It was about time I needed a bit of company and there was no other way to get it than to have you approach me. What good timing!”

My betting is he does have autism but he also has friends and a job, and you know fine well he coerces women into sex but you weren’t winning the argument so you’ve made a load of nonsense up about this situation.

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 23:04

Allinadayswork80 · 18/11/2023 22:48

I don’t disagree with the concept per se, but I do for all the reasons the PP’s have already mentioned about trafficking, pimping, abuse etc. So if a woman in her right mind, healthy, completely independently decided to escort then it’s her choice and many women can separate love/respect etc with pure sex and apparently make a pretty penny doing so. In this scenario it would seem ok. A transaction from two consenting willing parties where both know exactly what they’re doing and choosing for themselves. I have a male friend, very sweet, kind, loving, respectful but painfully shy with no self esteem or experience with women and not what ‘society’ would call attractive. But very highly sexed. I’m aware he has in the past used the services of such women and I would in no way say it dictates his overall perception of or lack of respect for women. Personally I’m not sure if I could date someone that has done so though.

Shyness, low self esteem and not being attractive are not characteristics that can't be overcome though. Ok the third one may be the hardest. I'm not a slim, confident, extrovert myself before anyone says "you don't know what it's like". I was so shy growing up that I couldn't sustain eye contact until well into my 30th decade. I would avoid phone calls and cross the road to avoid people even those who weren't strangers. Added to which I am tall, have had frizzy hair, acne and been obese for most of my life.

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 23:06

TangerineNeonLight · 18/11/2023 23:00

How much respect can you have for someone if you're happy to inflict sex on them that you know they don't want, don't enjoy and are repulsed by? Your ugly, inadequate friend isn't entitled to sex, but he feels like he is. And it's hard to imagine your scenario where the woman providing it has freely chosen this as a brilliant and lucrative career option. How would you feel if he offered you money for sex? Or your sister, or friend, or other woman you love and care about? I'm fairly sure you'd be insulted, appalled, disgusted by the proposition.

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This!!

No matter their motivation, all men who pay to procure sex, have coerced women into having sex they don’t want because they don’t consider them as humans - be terrified of these men.

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 23:09

I’m also not buying the guff about ‘it’s not his fault he’s not conventionally attractive and can’t get sex any other way’. Most of the attractive women I know have husbands with dropped-pie faces and no personality. I see all manner of unattractive men with girlfriends. What these men mean is they can’t get the 19yo Victoria’s Secret models, and therefore they feel hard done by.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 23:10

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 22:58

Curious to know was your relative with autism diagnosis also in his 20s? Because he may well have found himself able to have a sexual relationship in his 30s or 40s or even 50s. Yeah, it's frustrating having to wait for things but surely better to be with someone who loves you rather than paying a stranger? I mean there's no guarantee, but plenty of people I know had to wait before finding The One meant for them. Not just women either. I say this because I think men generally speaking probably have a higher sex drive than us women.

Wouldn't a relationship with a woman who also had autism be a possibility ? I'm sure there are as many autistic ladies looking for love and companionship as much as there men with autism.

Apologies if this is offensive , I'm quite ignorant about ASD.

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Wouldn't a relationship with a woman who also had autism be a possibility ? I'm sure there are as many autistic ladies looking for love and companionship as much as there men with autism.

I'd love to, but because of this whole "disabled men can pay to rape and that's magically OK because disability" attitude that we see examples of on this thread, I can't trust autistic men not to have paid to rape. And if I ask, they might guess that I want to hear "no" and lie. I've had enough of men lying to get into my knickers already, thanks. @XenoBitch's friend, for example, has removed himself from my dating pool permanently by paying to rape. Judging by the poll results, 97% of women agree with me.

Basically, disability being used as a fig leaf for male sexual entitlement hurts the dating prospects of all disabled men by putting women off dating them.

What Tish said two posts ago: No matter their motivation, all men who pay to procure sex, have coerced women into having sex they don’t want because they don’t consider them as humans - be terrified of these men.

Did I mention that autistic women and girls are three times more likely to be sexually abused than our neurotypical counterparts? We are already at huge risk of sexual abuse. Stop telling our male counterparts that sexual coercion is OK, you make autistic social groups rape traps for women by doing so.

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 23:10

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 23:04

Shyness, low self esteem and not being attractive are not characteristics that can't be overcome though. Ok the third one may be the hardest. I'm not a slim, confident, extrovert myself before anyone says "you don't know what it's like". I was so shy growing up that I couldn't sustain eye contact until well into my 30th decade. I would avoid phone calls and cross the road to avoid people even those who weren't strangers. Added to which I am tall, have had frizzy hair, acne and been obese for most of my life.

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It also can’t be easy being 300 years old

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 23:11

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 23:04

You still haven’t explained why a man who dislikes sex can only have a chat in a very specific set of circumstances that involves hiring prostitutes? He has friends and can make friends and his autism isn’t so severe that he needs round the clock care - yet he ONLY has company when approached by prostitutes.

Im trying to picture it - he’s walking around with all his Facebook friends and RL friends, feeling lonely and unable to talk to a soul, and a prostitution approaches him. He says “thank god! It was about time I needed a bit of company and there was no other way to get it than to have you approach me. What good timing!”

My betting is he does have autism but he also has friends and a job, and you know fine well he coerces women into sex but you weren’t winning the argument so you’ve made a load of nonsense up about this situation.

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He had sex and didn't like the sensory issues that came with it.
He lived his whole life not knowing why he was different etc. that includes suicide attempts and inpatient time
He has autism, and some physical disabilities too.
He has not had round the clock care, because it is hard to get.
Why are you so adamant that any autistic man that lives alone must be some sort of pervert?
It is abelist
He does not have a job, and his friends are from support groups etc.. I am one of them.

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 23:14

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 23:11

He had sex and didn't like the sensory issues that came with it.
He lived his whole life not knowing why he was different etc. that includes suicide attempts and inpatient time
He has autism, and some physical disabilities too.
He has not had round the clock care, because it is hard to get.
Why are you so adamant that any autistic man that lives alone must be some sort of pervert?
It is abelist
He does not have a job, and his friends are from support groups etc.. I am one of them.

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Why are you so adamant that any autistic man that lives alone must be some sort of pervert?

I don’t think he’s a pervert because he lives alone.
Hes a pervert because he uses prostitutes.

You keep saying the same things but are avoiding a father salient loot of why he can only get companionship/conversation by paying for prostitutes. Why no other Avenue, ever? I mean you’re his friend, he’s able to converse with you to the point hes
shares TMI. So why the need for prostitutes

Also why did you say at the start of the thread ‘it’s the only way he can get sex’ if he dislikes sex? Surely you wouldn’t have made out he gets sex regularly if he only had it once and hated it. If that was true you’d have worded that completely differently.

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 23:18

@XenoBitch I think your friend was also a victim in this scenario. But that just strengthens my views that prostitution is not a good thing for anyone or maybe good for only a few. Someone always gets hurt and in the case of your friend two people were exploited. I'm not saying it's your friends fault, I believe his circumstances are the exception not the rule.

Most incels or socially awkward people don't actually have a formal diagnosis of autism or what used to be known as aspergers so they wouldn't have a good reason for using prostitutes like your poor friend.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 23:21

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 23:11

He had sex and didn't like the sensory issues that came with it.
He lived his whole life not knowing why he was different etc. that includes suicide attempts and inpatient time
He has autism, and some physical disabilities too.
He has not had round the clock care, because it is hard to get.
Why are you so adamant that any autistic man that lives alone must be some sort of pervert?
It is abelist
He does not have a job, and his friends are from support groups etc.. I am one of them.

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that includes suicide attempts

Same.

Why are you so adamant that any autistic man that lives alone must be some sort of pervert?

Who is saying that? I'm not seeing anyone saying that.

What I am saying is that autism doesn't justify paying to rape someone and autistic men can and should choose not to do so. It's ableist to suggest that autistic men can't live up to this minimum standard of human decency. It's ableist to suggest that disabled men need access to prostituted women.

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 23:22

@TrishIsMySpiritAnimal I'm sorry I meant 3rd decade! As you can see its pretty obvious that I also have pretty bad dyscalculia on top of everything else! 😁😂😀 In all seriousness though I stand by my post.

WhenSheWasBadshewasawesome · 18/11/2023 23:27

I must have missed that part of the Early Bird course where they said it's ok to facilitate rape for males with autism.

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 23:33

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia I can understand why you are leery of going anywhere near a man who paid for sex, if I were looking for a relationship that would be a deal breaker for me.

@Tonight1 he doesn't sound like he is nice to you either . Getting major red flag vibes from reading your OP. Run, run, run. For the hills. You deserve better.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 23:38

WhenSheWasBadshewasawesome · 18/11/2023 23:27

I must have missed that part of the Early Bird course where they said it's ok to facilitate rape for males with autism.

It's disgusting, ableist, and tone-deaf towards autistic women when you consider our sexual abuse victimisation rate.

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 23:38

@XenoBitch that includes suicide attempts and inpatient times that is very sad but also the case for many women who have been brutalized and exploited by the sex industry into horrendous PTSD, not to mention those who have also had trafficking and child abuse or domestic abuse, drug abuse, alcoholism, abortion etc in their background. Your friend has had a hard life and I'm sorry for that, but so have the majority of these sex workers.

Isittimeformynapyet · 18/11/2023 23:40

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 22:58

Curious to know was your relative with autism diagnosis also in his 20s? Because he may well have found himself able to have a sexual relationship in his 30s or 40s or even 50s. Yeah, it's frustrating having to wait for things but surely better to be with someone who loves you rather than paying a stranger? I mean there's no guarantee, but plenty of people I know had to wait before finding The One meant for them. Not just women either. I say this because I think men generally speaking probably have a higher sex drive than us women.

Wouldn't a relationship with a woman who also had autism be a possibility ? I'm sure there are as many autistic ladies looking for love and companionship as much as there men with autism.

Apologies if this is offensive , I'm quite ignorant about ASD.

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No offense taken.

He saw a child psychologist at 13 and diagnosed with Asperger's (early 80s)

He's nearly 60 and has sadly never been able to find a loving relationship. He's always been very strange. Women have often befriended him - I think they felt sorry for him. My girl friends often took pity on him and tried to include him in things, but he mistook any kindness from women as a sign of sexual possibilities and they always beat a quick retreat. He has always punched WAY above his weight.

This has made him very, very angry. Since Incels were a thing I've often thought he was an obvious candidate.

Back then I really thought him seeing this woman was a pragmatic answer to a problem - but today I do think he had a sense of entitlement about it. I think he caused the woman problems because of his neediness and that entitlement.

Isittimeformynapyet · 18/11/2023 23:41

Sorry, yes, he was in his twenties at the time.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 23:41

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 23:38

@XenoBitch that includes suicide attempts and inpatient times that is very sad but also the case for many women who have been brutalized and exploited by the sex industry into horrendous PTSD, not to mention those who have also had trafficking and child abuse or domestic abuse, drug abuse, alcoholism, abortion etc in their background. Your friend has had a hard life and I'm sorry for that, but so have the majority of these sex workers.

Frankly, this competitive "my autistic friend is more autistic than Vito is" is a smokescreen and red herring.

It doesn't matter how shit someone's life has been, they don't get a dispensation to pay to rape.

I say again: It doesn't matter how shit someone's life has been, they don't get a dispensation to pay to rape.

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 23:47

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 23:38

It's disgusting, ableist, and tone-deaf towards autistic women when you consider our sexual abuse victimisation rate.

Edited

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Absolutely this! It's vile. Why is it disabled women have to put up and shut up but not disabled men? It's unfair.

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 23:50

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 23:41

Frankly, this competitive "my autistic friend is more autistic than Vito is" is a smokescreen and red herring.

It doesn't matter how shit someone's life has been, they don't get a dispensation to pay to rape.

I say again: It doesn't matter how shit someone's life has been, they don't get a dispensation to pay to rape.

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It is a red herring. I don't disbelieve the not liking sex due to sensory issues but he went back??? Was he not afraid of it happening again? You don't go to prostitutes just to chat either.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 23:51

Isittimeformynapyet · 18/11/2023 23:40

No offense taken.

He saw a child psychologist at 13 and diagnosed with Asperger's (early 80s)

He's nearly 60 and has sadly never been able to find a loving relationship. He's always been very strange. Women have often befriended him - I think they felt sorry for him. My girl friends often took pity on him and tried to include him in things, but he mistook any kindness from women as a sign of sexual possibilities and they always beat a quick retreat. He has always punched WAY above his weight.

This has made him very, very angry. Since Incels were a thing I've often thought he was an obvious candidate.

Back then I really thought him seeing this woman was a pragmatic answer to a problem - but today I do think he had a sense of entitlement about it. I think he caused the woman problems because of his neediness and that entitlement.

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he mistook any kindness from women as a sign of sexual possibilities and they always beat a quick retreat

Nothing makes me, or in fact other women, run away as fast as this kind of behaviour. When I said,

"Talk to the women in the exact same way as you talk to the men. That means, don't talk about how you are looking for a girlfriend because that will make her run, don't stare at her tits, don't monopolise her, don't stalk her. If in doubt, stick to talking about the focus of the hobby group.",

what you've described is what I was trying to describe.

The best way for a man to get a girlfriend is to stop trying to girlfriend-zone every woman he meets.

Isittimeformynapyet · 19/11/2023 00:10

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 23:51

he mistook any kindness from women as a sign of sexual possibilities and they always beat a quick retreat

Nothing makes me, or in fact other women, run away as fast as this kind of behaviour. When I said,

"Talk to the women in the exact same way as you talk to the men. That means, don't talk about how you are looking for a girlfriend because that will make her run, don't stare at her tits, don't monopolise her, don't stalk her. If in doubt, stick to talking about the focus of the hobby group.",

what you've described is what I was trying to describe.

The best way for a man to get a girlfriend is to stop trying to girlfriend-zone every woman he meets.

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Exactly. But he couldn't see the obvious, even when it was spelled out clearly. He always aimed for really pretty women, the sort who light up a room and get loads of attention, and we all suggested he should look for someone who was also lonely and awkward but he'd just get angry at our audacity.

I was NC with this relative for 17 years until a death in the family forced an unwelcome reunion. He hasn't changed.

Sorry to derail the thread. It's been an interesting read and forced me to think about stuff I'd avoided.