Page 13 | I have quite strong views on prostitution

Tonight1 · 2023-11-17T04:47:51+00:00

Not at all about the women, just that I would not want to date a habitual user! Or punter as they're called. And yes this came up recently. This is discussion about how you would feel about it? AIBU - wouldn't mind YANBU - would mind

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 22:23

MrsTerryPratchett · 18/11/2023 18:37

No, it's work. Work means that you agree to do some form of labour you otherwise probably wouldn't do in exchange for an agreed amount of money; I don't do my job out of altruism, and I suspect very few people do regardless of what that job is.

You might not do your job out of altruism. That's fair. But do you do your job out of trauma? Because if you removed from sex work, anyone who:

Was pimped
Was trafficked
Is addicted
Is mentally unwell
Has a PD
Was abused as a child
Has any other avenue to feed themselves and their children
Doesn't have a safe home
Was trauma-impacted
Is in an abusive relationship

You'd be left with almost no one. And those women would be paid extortionate amounts of money, eye-watering amounts. The ONLY reason you can get a blow job for a few quid is addiction. Some men are paying a lot but most aren't. And the reason is adverse childhood experiences, abuse and addiction.

Neatly, what that means is that abusive men are paving the way for more abusive men. Some men abuse children, some of those children go on to be abused by other men. The truth is that happy, healthy women, with no abuse in their pasts, and other options, typically don't take up sex work.

And men don't ask BTW. Men will tell you they 'check' but they don't. They don't know if the woman they are fucking has her passport, has to do it for the next fix, is beaten if she doesn't. They simply don't care. And if you gave them the option, statistically, to be treated in the same way as the woman they are doing it to, would they risk it? If you said, "scratch your itch, but if the woman is coerced, a man will come in after and coerce you. If she is addicted, someone will inject you with heroin. If she is trafficked, someone will come in and take you to Romania or Somalia and take your passport away. If she is raped, a man will come in and do the same to you." Would any man scratch his itch then? Of course not. And what that means is that they don't see the women as truly human.

Agree 100% with this.

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 22:24

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 22:21

He does not use dating site or meets because he is not able.
He can't navigate the online world. He has FB, and added most of the planet thinking they were true friends.
Like I said, he now has a great support network that are looking out for him.
I know his story and issues. I have seen other men in my town that I know have very profound LD. They probably do not fully understand consent etc... yet I see them with the local prostitutes.

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So the ONLY way to have the company of a friend is to hire a prostitute? How on earth did you become friends with him if he has such a specific set of how he can make friends? Did you approach him for sex? Does he never speak to men, or hold down a job?

He can use social media but not dating sites - why not? What’s the difference?

Stop making excuses and stop pretending he just wants a friendly chat. Him and anyone else who pays to rape women should be avoided like the plague.

Guesswho88 · 18/11/2023 22:26

Well of course I wouldn't want to date one, how fucking odd.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 22:26

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 22:11

I think you might have to read up on autism and how it can affect how you perceive people and their intentions.

My friend went to the police about the prostitute who robbed him. They did not press charges on him for seeing her... he was classed as vulnerable and not aware. They actually sign posted him to help to get out the habit of paying women to talk to him.
And that is how I know him. He had therapy as seeing the ladies was seen as a form of self harm. He is doing so much better now, and had more healthy relationships with all around him.
But yes, please still condone him getting his head kicked in.

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I am autistic. I have difficult understanding people's intentions. Men have taken advantage of this to rape me.

Yet I have never paid to sexually assault someone. For some reason, I've known since I was a child that that is a wrong thing to do. Your relative didn't choose to "see" prostitutes because he is autistic, he chose to "see" them because of his male sense of entitlement to sexual use of women's bodies. Stop using autism as an excuse for his behaviour, it's beyond offensive.

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 22:27

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 22:20

I'm autistic.

As kindly as possible: FUCK OFF with using my condition as an excuse for paying to rape. Believe me when I say that you hurt all autistic people, all women, and especially autistic women when you do this.

It is easy, two steps easy, for autistic men to meet women:

Join a board gaming group, or an aerial arts group, or take up salsa dancing, or some other structured social activity like that.
Talk to the women in the exact same way as you talk to the men. That means, don't talk about how you are looking for a girlfriend because that will make her run, don't stare at her tits, don't monopolise her, don't stalk her. If in doubt, stick to talking about the focus of the hobby group.

Even if what you said was true, inability to socialise does not confer a licence to pay to rape.

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Well, fuck off too. You are able to post on MN. My friend has basic FB and an email. He has no idea how to do online stuff. He can't manage his finances or manage a home. He has no idea if someone is taking advantage of him, or if he is doing it to someone else.

So fuck off with your "I am autistic so all autistic people can do this too" crap.

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 22:27

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 22:22

@XenoBitch but if he wants company he could see his friends. Sex isn't a right. We can live without sex. We may want it but we can live without it.

oh come on @WillyWillySpiderWilly stop stating the obvious, this poor little lamb HAS to use prostitutes don’t you know? I mean if he lived in a town with none at all he’d just implode

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 22:29

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 22:27

Well, fuck off too. You are able to post on MN. My friend has basic FB and an email. He has no idea how to do online stuff. He can't manage his finances or manage a home. He has no idea if someone is taking advantage of him, or if he is doing it to someone else.

So fuck off with your "I am autistic so all autistic people can do this too" crap.

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What’s a ‘basic Facebook’?

Youre his friend so he can make friends - so why does he need to use prostitutes for company? You said it’s ‘the only way he can get sex’ - then in another breath you reckon he doesn’t want sex at all.

We see you

HRTQueen · 18/11/2023 22:29

I would instantly lose respect for a partner if I found out he had bought sex

though I suspect some of my ex’s have and one I know one for a face did, that he was ashamed made no difference to how I felt

I’ve worked with ex sex workers (that’s what they wanted to be called) for many different reasons they were involved and everyone of them ended up broken

a few maybe don’t but the vast majority do

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 22:32

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 22:27

Well, fuck off too. You are able to post on MN. My friend has basic FB and an email. He has no idea how to do online stuff. He can't manage his finances or manage a home. He has no idea if someone is taking advantage of him, or if he is doing it to someone else.

So fuck off with your "I am autistic so all autistic people can do this too" crap.

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He has no idea if someone is taking advantage of him, or if he is doing it to someone else.

If he is genuinely that vulnerable, his carers should not be allowing him to go to a prostitute, for his own safety. Pimps aren't nice people.

You are able to post on MN. My friend has basic FB and an email.

I don't have Facebook because it's harder to understand than Mumsnet.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 22:33

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 22:29

What’s a ‘basic Facebook’?

Youre his friend so he can make friends - so why does he need to use prostitutes for company? You said it’s ‘the only way he can get sex’ - then in another breath you reckon he doesn’t want sex at all.

We see you

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Youre his friend so he can make friends - so why does he need to use prostitutes for company?

If you can make friends, you can make girl/boyfriends.

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 22:34

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 22:32

He has no idea if someone is taking advantage of him, or if he is doing it to someone else.

If he is genuinely that vulnerable, his carers should not be allowing him to go to a prostitute, for his own safety. Pimps aren't nice people.

You are able to post on MN. My friend has basic FB and an email.

I don't have Facebook because it's harder to understand than Mumsnet.

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I also think we need to be careful about saying “he just didn’t know what he was doing”. It opens a massive can of worms for predatory men getting off Scot free and victims not getting justice

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 22:35

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 22:29

What’s a ‘basic Facebook’?

Youre his friend so he can make friends - so why does he need to use prostitutes for company? You said it’s ‘the only way he can get sex’ - then in another breath you reckon he doesn’t want sex at all.

We see you

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Basic FB as in he used to just share links mostly. Nothing deep and personal like some people do.
He made friends via a support group, and that is how I know him. I do actually value and like his company. And that is how I learned that being autistic (and I am not talking being able to post on MN and have a family level), is fucking lonely, when you don't understand how or why you don't gel or get on with anyone)

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 22:36

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 22:34

I also think we need to be careful about saying “he just didn’t know what he was doing”. It opens a massive can of worms for predatory men getting off Scot free and victims not getting justice

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Your capitalisation of "scot", intentional? Have you been reading FWR's threads about Scottish rape sentencing guidelines?

And yes, you are right.

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 22:39

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 22:32

He has no idea if someone is taking advantage of him, or if he is doing it to someone else.

If he is genuinely that vulnerable, his carers should not be allowing him to go to a prostitute, for his own safety. Pimps aren't nice people.

You are able to post on MN. My friend has basic FB and an email.

I don't have Facebook because it's harder to understand than Mumsnet.

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He has no carers. He was diagnosed and left to get on with it... happens to a lot of people.

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 22:41

@XenoBitch due to my disability I also need support to live in my own home, I'm classed as vulnerable. Even though I am able to use MN, I struggle with financial management and managing day to day living although admittedly I am Semi independent not under 24/7 care. Even so, my social worker and support workers would be horrified if I was gallivanting around getting men to pay me for sex. I'm horrified that your friends carers are allowing this (I'm assuming he is in a care home from what you've said) Why aren't you phoning social services because this is potentially neglect your friend is suffering. I think that's disgusting of his carers allowing this.

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 22:43

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 22:39

He has no carers. He was diagnosed and left to get on with it... happens to a lot of people.

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That's awful. The lack of care in the UK (assuming you are in the UK) is a national disgrace.

Lavender14 · 18/11/2023 22:44

I personally wouldn't want to date someone who has used sex workers in the past but I can see why some people in very specific situations might feel the need to. I fully support any woman's choice to participate in sex work provided it is an informed and fully autonomous choice and stays an open choice for that woman. My issue would really be the concern that someone would be inadvertently supporting human trafficking and modern day slavery plus other human rights abuses by paying someone for sex/intimacy. Plus just the grey area of making sex/intimacy transactional and whether there can be genuine consent when there is a financial element at all.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 22:45

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 22:35

Basic FB as in he used to just share links mostly. Nothing deep and personal like some people do.
He made friends via a support group, and that is how I know him. I do actually value and like his company. And that is how I learned that being autistic (and I am not talking being able to post on MN and have a family level), is fucking lonely, when you don't understand how or why you don't gel or get on with anyone)

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Thanks for the NTsplaining of how lonely autism is. I am autistic, I think I know that it's lonely already.

To have people to share links with on FB, you have to have friends, otherwise who are you sharing the links with? I don't need friends to post on Mumsnet, I just need to be able to read and type.

Being autistic doesn't affect whether you have a family or not, you're born with parents and other relatives.

when you don't understand how or why you don't gel or get on with anyone

I was diagnosed literally last year and until then I didn't even have a diagnostic label to ascribe my lack of social skills to. So please quit with the NTsplaining of how awful autism is, it's patronising.

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 22:46

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 22:35

Basic FB as in he used to just share links mostly. Nothing deep and personal like some people do.
He made friends via a support group, and that is how I know him. I do actually value and like his company. And that is how I learned that being autistic (and I am not talking being able to post on MN and have a family level), is fucking lonely, when you don't understand how or why you don't gel or get on with anyone)

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Being lonely doesn’t excuse coercing women into sex. Lonely men is not a problem for vulnerable women to solve.

So he can make friends - yet he can only get company through a very specific set of circumstances involving a prostitute? You’re on the wind up now. I still can’t last the ‘he hates sex so hire prostitutes’ - it’s almost comical

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 22:47

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 22:39

He has no carers. He was diagnosed and left to get on with it... happens to a lot of people.

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I wasn't even diagnosed until last year, no carers either, and yet I still somehow know that paying for sex is wrong and I still somehow manage to live my life without doing so.

It's male entitlement, not autism, driving this.

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 22:47

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 22:36

Your capitalisation of "scot", intentional? Have you been reading FWR's threads about Scottish rape sentencing guidelines?

And yes, you are right.

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No not intentional - chubby fingers. But I wasn’t aware and will certainly check it out

TrishIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/11/2023 22:47

XenoBitch · 18/11/2023 22:39

He has no carers. He was diagnosed and left to get on with it... happens to a lot of people.

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If his diagnosis truly reflected that he can’t be around people because he is a danger to them, he would be assigned carers.

Allinadayswork80 · 18/11/2023 22:48

I don’t disagree with the concept per se, but I do for all the reasons the PP’s have already mentioned about trafficking, pimping, abuse etc. So if a woman in her right mind, healthy, completely independently decided to escort then it’s her choice and many women can separate love/respect etc with pure sex and apparently make a pretty penny doing so. In this scenario it would seem ok. A transaction from two consenting willing parties where both know exactly what they’re doing and choosing for themselves. I have a male friend, very sweet, kind, loving, respectful but painfully shy with no self esteem or experience with women and not what ‘society’ would call attractive. But very highly sexed. I’m aware he has in the past used the services of such women and I would in no way say it dictates his overall perception of or lack of respect for women. Personally I’m not sure if I could date someone that has done so though.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 18/11/2023 22:56

Whatthefnow · 18/11/2023 14:22

I escorted in my early twenties. I was happy to have sex for money and saw it as a transaction. My body was being used for sex but I never felt used. Did the deed, took the money and left.

I am honestly very glad that that worked out well for you. This conversation is about punters though.

WillyWillySpiderWilly · 18/11/2023 22:58

Isittimeformynapyet · 17/11/2023 23:14

To be honest, no I didn't. Around that time I'd seen a couple of documentaries about sex workers who were saying that they had full agency and it worked for them. I took them at face value I suppose, and at the time probably thought I was being liberal and non-judgemental.

I was in my early 20s. There were a lot of things I hadn't wondered about back then.

I've done a lot of wondering since then and totally get the points you make.

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Curious to know was your relative with autism diagnosis also in his 20s? Because he may well have found himself able to have a sexual relationship in his 30s or 40s or even 50s. Yeah, it's frustrating having to wait for things but surely better to be with someone who loves you rather than paying a stranger? I mean there's no guarantee, but plenty of people I know had to wait before finding The One meant for them. Not just women either. I say this because I think men generally speaking probably have a higher sex drive than us women.

Wouldn't a relationship with a woman who also had autism be a possibility ? I'm sure there are as many autistic ladies looking for love and companionship as much as there men with autism.

Apologies if this is offensive , I'm quite ignorant about ASD.