To be Upset - Mum Selling Her House and Moving 200+ Miles Away

[DontGoGran]

My Mum currently lives about half an hour away from our little family. She pops round often, and usually with just a few hours notice (I'll ring and ask if she wants company and vice versa etc.)

I have one DD(2) and am pregnant with another, due at the end of the year. We rely on my Mum for childcare whilst I'm at work once a month, sometimes twice, (she offered to do this), and she does ad hoc babysitting for DH and I if we want to go out on dates (maybe once every few months). We have no other family nearby. I talk to her every day and see her at least once a week, if not more, she has a great relationship with DD, they adore each other, and DD gets so excited when she knows Granny is coming round. She cries and cries when Granny has to go home, she loves her so much.

My Mum has announced to us all that she is selling her house and moving to live near the coast.

I'm devastated. Not just because of the loss of childcare, because we can sort that out if we need to, but because I will miss my Mum and not being able to see her every week, and I know DD will be so sad too, not being able to see her Granny every week.

Mum is angry at me because I've told her how sad I am that she's leaving, and said I was being selfish. I'm not telling her she can't go, but am I really BU to express my sadness at her leaving and saying we'd miss her?

I had hoped that she would have the same relationship with my girls that I had with my Gran, and I feel so sad that probably won't happen because she'll live so far away that we just won't be able to manage to see her anywhere near as often as we do now.

I feel like my Mum is BU expecting me to just say it's all fine, when I'm so sad I keep crying whenever I think about her being gone.

Let me give you an example of the little things - say, back discomfort. I couldn't do long haul flights as easily as I did in my 20s, for instance.

For my mum, this means that the epic drive from her place to mine is a bit uncomfortable, so she avoids it. This means that in order to ever see her, I have to drive to her.

By the time I juggle annual leave for school holidays and sick kids, I am lucky to get a week a year to actually travel.

Due to my mum's location, and it being too far to go for a long weekend, I end up using this travel week to go and see her. This means I don't get to plan actual holidays.

So yeah, OP's mum is free to make her decision, but that decision has other consequences, and can /will impact OP.

I completely understand. We are very much a 'family first' family, who have all stayed living within 20 minutes of each other (grandparents, parents, siblings) I'd be devastated if my parents moved away. They wouldn't and we wouldn't leave them. They've always been there for us and we'll be there for them in their old age. I fully expect to be the main carer or at least helper, of one or both of them at some point in the future.
I think your mum is being very silly by isolating herself at this age. Who will help her when she needs it?

Without rehashing previous posts, and just pulling out one statement in the above: "It's just that it's such a huge move with such little apparent benefit"

Such little benefit to whom? The person to assess the benefit is the OPs mother, not the OP, not you and not me. And the OPs mother has decided it is of benefit to her to spend the next period of her life living where she wants, doing what she wants. Sure,the OP can feel that way, but she would be completely unreasonable to say so, and to try an guilt-trip her mother into not moving.

I agree with others that to take a position that the elderly are not capable of making informed choices themselves is patronsiing and ageist. Someone further up the thread described this as infantilising the elderly. And that's a great description of the attitude of many towards those who are getting on in years.

I am sure most reasonable people would not say that making an informed choice to move, accepting the small risk that you will need significant support in later life, is "sticking your head in the sand". What is daft is assuming the worst will happen and living a less happy life than you could.

@Tryingtokeepgoing No one is suggesting that the OP guilt trip her mother out of this decision. I just think that if an immediate family member of any age is planning on making a stupid decision, then you should at least say something. That's not infantalising, it's just looking out for each other.

The "little benefit" thing - multiple posters have talked about the reality of moving to a "holiday town". It's not the same as visiting on holiday.

You keep talking about the probability of OP's mum needing serious help, and I keep explaining that it's not the serious help that's the issue - but you keep ignoring that.

Why do you continue to continue to completely dismiss the experiences of the "sandwich generation" - women in their 40s and 50s juggling the needs of kids, job, and parents?

Literally no one in this thread suggested guilt tripping the mum or trying to “force” her to stay. Neither did anyone say she doesn’t have the right or agency to make her own decisions. She absolutely does, that’s not even in question.

However, there is nothing wrong with having a chat about the practicalities of what will happen (and equally what can’t happen due to sheer distance) should her mum need another operation or her mobility declines even further. Having a sensible discussion about future expectations benefits everyone so everyone is clear about it and no one ends up disappointed.

OPs mum may well end up loving her new life, but she may also end up regretting it. That’s something we all have to face when making big life decisions, it’s not just limited to the elderly so carefully thinking it all through is good advice for everyone, not just OPs mum.

I'm sorry, but bursting into tears can definitely be classified as guilt tripping, especially by the OP's mum.

So the heavily pregnant woman isn't allowed to have an emotional reaction to the massive change in the relationship with her mum?

Nope, its not. Genuine tears are an emotional reaction which OP has said are probably prompted by pregnancy hormones and is often something we cant control. She is allowed to express her emotions about it. That is not deliberate guilt tripping at all. When I was pregnant I also cried a lot and it wasnt due to some devious ploy to guilt trip.

Guilt tripping would be constant comments and digs about how awful it will be for her and her daughter and it would involve emotional manipulation and coercion. If the mum cries when she leaves for good- would you class THAT as guilt tripping too then?- guilt tripping her daughter into visiting her?

@mouldyfalafel

Yes, I would.
Maybe everyone is different about crying. (Unfortunately I do cry a lot but in different circumstances.)

If it was purely impulsive as you say, then I would think that it would then be guilt tripping if OP was to add to it by telling her mum how sad she was about it, etc etc. As to me the initial reaction (bursting into tears) was strong enough.

Ah well I disagree. People cry- we arent robots. Not every tear is about manipulation and I think its really quite sad you think that tbh

It sounds like she likes it there and you're bitter about it

@LameBorzoi But it's not a stupid decison if that's what she wants to do, given the liklihood of needing assistance, and so to take that decison away, or belittle and ridicule it is to infantalise the OPS mother

I know that you are fixated on your view that all elderly people need assistance, but as I keep pointing out and you either ignore or fail to undertand, the majority of people live well into old age not needing help, or needing low level help that can easily be outsourced. Cleaning, gardening, ironing, decorating, fixing stuff, driving, shopping can all either be outsourced or delivered to their door without any family intervention. You seem to think that all the problems have to be sorted by keeping old people nearby just in case. The reality is the majority cope quiet well by themselves, and their are many bsuinesses that make a good living supporting and enabling that. You really do seem to resent the fact that the majority do manage.

And its a bit rich to acuse me of dismissing the experiences of the sandwich generation when I, my siblings and peer groups are it. So I think my point of view is just as valid, if not more so as its based on actual data not individual datapoints, which I am sure are hard work but, to reiterate for the hard of comrpehension, are not the majority.

All you will see posted here or elsewhere online is the experiences of those women whose parents do need support from families, and I get that that need for support can seem relentless. But, the fact remains that the majority have parents that don't need that support, and so don't post. So you can't extraoplate a self selecting data set of negative experiences across the whole population of 60/70/80 year olds. I am not sure why that is so difficult to comprehend.

@RantyAnty
But that's the thing - I'm not sure that it has made her happier. There are benefits that don't apply to OP - housing, for instance - and I'm happy that she has those bits.

I am upset due to the change in the relationship with her due to distance. I spent a very long time pretending to myself that geography didn't matter. I've come to accept that it does. She's still my mum, but the distance is hard. And it's really had a negative impact on her relationship with my kids, despite my best efforts.

@Tryingtokeepgoing Of course all older people need support - everybody of any age needs support! We are social animals that need community. Yes, people make friends, but that takes time. It takes years to make the kind of old friends that you can actually rely on.

OP's mum is at an age when she is more much likely to need, say, medical procedures. That's just fact, and it's just fantasy to pretend it's not. When that sort of thing happens, most people want family or a very close friend around.

People can want stupid things. If you had a friend who wanted to buy a house that was a structural nightmare/ money pit, you'd not pretend that the issues weren't there. I've already talked about how this idea of moving to a holiday area is a common false trap, so can we please not go over it again?

I'm not saying that OP's mum needs to live in OP's pocket. I'm just pointing out that the distance that OP's mum is proposing is huge, and really does cut her off from OP and OP's kids. A move that didn't move her quite so far away might enable them to actually stay in each other's lives a bit.

I keep coming back to the same point. OP's mum is absolutely entitled to move wherever she wants to move. BUT she needs to move with the full knowledge of what she can and cannot expect from the OP and her family AND knowledge of her financial ability to hire in help or to move back 'home' again if she needs/wants to. Some people up and move sticks without realizing that they don't have the wherewithal to hire the help they may need, that transport links aren't all that great, or with the expectation that things just aren't going to change as far as time spent with their family. Once OP's mum understands all this, if she still wants to move, then she knows what to expect after she does.

We often see threads with "My parent lives <insert hours> away and they expect us to travel to them to <insert errand/need/holiday> at the drop of a hat". Or "I live <insert miles> away and my children only visit me <insert number> times a year. I can't go to them because <insert reason>. I think they should visit more or drive me back and forth". I always feel that there wasn't a really frank conversation had beforehand so the parent knows what's what, and so do the children.

DH and I moved 600 miles from my parents due to his career. It was fine in the early days as both my parents were healthy and enjoyed travel. With both of us working and young children in school we didn't have the time to travel to them multiple times a year so they came to us. No problem we were always happy to see them. But as time went on they felt they wanted to be closer (mostly for time with the grandchildren at that point) so they sold the family home and moved near us and traveled back to our home town to visit relatives regularly. When Dad was diagnosed with a 'slow but fatal' neuro condition it was so easy for me to help Mum care for him and later to spend lots of time together after he died. Later when Mum was diagnosed with dementia it was much easier to find her a care home and to keep an eye on her. If they'd stayed 'back home' so much of what I did would have been nearly impossible since I had children in school and finances were such that I couldn't have kept flying back and forth or doing a 12 hour drive to get to them.

It's not about OP's mum needing OP's 'permission' to move. It's about managing expectations and understanding the reality of what the move means. For both OP and her mum. And for those who say that her mum may never need the help, that's as may be. But it's better to know what's what, just in case and then make an informed decision as to whether or not to 'take that gamble'.

@AcrossthePond55 I very much agree with you.

With OP's mum's decision, however, I will add that people generally are quite poor at assessing the risks. People usually under estimate the likelihood of developing significant medical conditions, particularly at that age. There are studies that demobstrate this. That's not infantalising, it's a psychological phenomenon, a cognitive trap, like say, The Sunk Cost Fallacy.

Forgot to quote

It is absolutely not casual ageism. It’s lived experience for so many people on here, and you being dismissive of that doesn’t make it any less true.

My dad at 77 had a full life. He “worked” almost full time in several voluntary roles, and was treasurer or secretary for several more. He embraced technology, holidayed abroad and regularly drove the 6 hours to visit us. He was literally no different from when he retired 20 years previously. Then he had a massive stroke completely out of the blue. Everyone who knew him said he was the least likely candidate.

When they initially chose in their late 50s to live 6 hours away, we had small children and DH and I both worked full time. I was sad they were so far away because I wanted a day to day relationship with them, but I didn’t question their decision because they were adults. Twenty years later I was wishing I had. That’s not ageism, that the heartbreak of seeing your parents in dire circumstances and not being able to be there for them.

Seems like this is a move your DM has been thinking about for a long time, she must have been dreading the day she broke the news to you.

While I can understand the way you reacted initially, there must have been more to it for your DM to call you selfish. She wouldn’t call you this for just breaking down in floods of tears.

Regarding your DD. Children are resilient, far more than we as adults usually are, so with the power of technology these days, your DD will still be able to ‘see’ and talk to your DM. She’ll be able to go on coastal holidays.

I can understand why you’re upset, especially as you weren’t expecting it, which leads me to believe that your DM knew what your reaction would be. It must be difficult, especially as you’ve always had your DM close by but you’ve got to let her do this. You’re settled in your life, now let her live hers.

I find it really bizarre how so many posters think coastal towns are all desolate deprived outposts far from civilisation! You have heard of places like Brighton, Bournemouth, Plymouth - major coastal cities with everything you could possibly need?? We don’t know where OP’s mum is moving. But I can assure you in my part of the coast there is absolutely no issue with services, they score better than London in general.

Some retirees even move overseas! (The horror…..)

It's not wrong to feel sad.

My parents did the same thing when I was in my mid-20s. They waited for the final grandparent to die, who was in a local care home, and then moved over 100 miles away. They wanted to be in the countryside, and near to my auntie and uncle (mums sister), who they've always been close with.
There's been ups and downs for sure. The major down was when my dad got very ill for a year, I simply wasn't able to support anywhere near as much as I'd have liked to. And the same was true when he died.
However, being so close to her sister was really beneficial to mum, and she's built up a wide social circle over there, and honestly seems the happiest she's been for years.
I certainly wish she was closer, and miss seeing her regularly, but I'm happy she's happy.

I find this laughable too.

These are towns and cities with facilities, not some remote outpost in northern Canada only accessible by pack mule.

My own parents moved to a small town at retirement and stayed until they passed away in their 90s.

I certainly didn't have a tanty, sulk, and call them stupid and selfish.

People who think it's stupid and selfish, need to take a hard look in the mirror.

You're right, people do seem to work on the basis of 'that's not going to happen'. But at least if a frank conversation is had and 'the worst' happens the person can be told 'we warned you about this' or even the dreaded 'we told you so' if their expectations of their family cannot be met. And when the person is told 'No, we can't help you there' hopefully it won't come as a bolt out of the blue.

I'll admit I was very lucky that when my mum wanted to move 'back home' she actually listened to our reservations and what our travel abilities would be. She decided to 'stay put' and keep visiting her siblings. Luckily they all had room for her and were all very close and she was always an excellent house guest.

@AcrossthePond55 Yes, I that's really all OP can do at the moment. Ideally that discussion will also include expectations about visiting. On these posts you often hear phrases like "but you can visit for seaside holidays" and "you can make phone calls". I think OP and her mum need to sit down and really think about how often OP is actually going to drive for hours to pay a fortune to stay in an airbnb in a tourist town. They also might want to think about how well little kids actually interact over the phone (some might, but I think that for many, little kids don't really interact on the phone that well. At least, mine didn't).

Sorry you're sad OP. I would be. But Ive seen a few of these posts lately and its food for thought - just by virtue of being a woman, we're expected to just be there, on hand, all the time. So when is our time?

We have children and raise them. Then when they have children we're expected to stay close, babysit, be the family matriarch etc. What if we don't fancy that, and want to go around the world for a year? Or buy a cottage by the sea and paint in peace every day?

There's a flip side as we know. What if your mum needs help one day, as we dont stay strong and mobile forever? Your mum is ok now but she needs to have plans for when she isn't. Especially if she's miles away.

My DCs are grown. I dont have grandchildren yet but im guessing in next 2/3 years I will. I will love them wholeheartedly and spend time with them but they wont be my life. Im still working. If I become unable to take care of myself in the future I dont want my DCs to feel they have to care for me. Just visit me where I am.

I dont blame your mum for wanting to make a new life for herself, why not? It's too far away tho I think. But maybe she knows best so you will just have to accept it. At least you can facetime, and spend holidays with her too.