To have expected dd to stay home?

[champagnetruffleshuffle]

No one in the family had plans this evening so DH and I decided to have a very rare evening out to the local cinema, leaving dd16 and ds13 at home. Dd16 came downstairs at dinner time saying she wants to go out to a neighbouring town and asked for a lift. We told her our plans and that the film didn't finish until 10.40 pm and we didn't want ds left on his own at home all evening.

We arrive home from the cinema to find ds on his own, dd had gone out at 9.45 pm to meet a local friend. She'd snap chatted me telling me whilst we were watching the film with our phones turned off. I turned my phone on when the film finished but my data was still off.

Ds is alright with being at home alone, but dh and I weren't happy as we'd be back quite late and weren't easily contactable.

I'm so cross with her right now. I know he was pretty safe but we made it clear we didn't want him left. AIBU? And wwyd?

YABU - 13 is old enough to be home alone, you can't exorcist 16yo to stay in on a Saturday night
YANBU - She went against our wishes and I'm right to be cross.

our family is a team and I do a lot for her over and above what I should.

I don't understand what you mean by this - surely your job as her parent is to do a lot for your children?

OP have you also talked through with your husband why he wasn’t regularly checking his phone to make sure your children were ok, since presumably you agreed with him he’d do this before switching off your own phone? It’s he as a grown adult you should be most annoyed with, not a 16yo.

But she went out when you expected her and had made plans for her to stay home. I would have a talk about why it was important to trust her.

I disagree.
Expecting a 16yr old to babysit over night is too much.

It sounds like rather than ask/arrange for her to look after her brother, you made plans first with the assumption she would stay home but she had other plans.
I wouldn't expect my older child to stay in and babysit but if you're not comfortable with him being left alone either confirm in advance with her that she agrees to stay home or make other arrangements.
Although personally I'd see no issue in a 13 year old being alone for an evening and would have been happy to leave mine but I don't know your 13 year old.

It is, but I get what she means here. Part of the job of a parent is to teach children to contribute in a shared environment, the essential life skill of team work. Its also good for self esteem to feel you can offer something to others that's of value. So as tempting as it might be for the parent to give and give without asking anything in return, it misses an important part of socialisation.

@5128gap - I understand the teamwork bit, but I don't see the relevance of her saying that she "goes above and beyond" for her daughter. Isn't that normal?

While I was babysitting myself at 13, you explicitly told her no (or did you?). She of course knew you wouldn't get any messages while watching the film.
However I do think 13 is old enough to be on their own of an evening.

Expecting a 16yr old to babysit over night is too much.

I don't think it is. A sixteen year old should be more than capable of looking after a sibling overnight.

we almost never go out as a couple

But why? Assuming you want to go out. Why is it dependent on your daughter?
Our kids are a similar age. We probably wouldn’t leave the younger one alone for the whole evening (like from 5 or 6 pm till midnight), but couple of hours would be okay.

Did you explicitly ask her to babysit her brother when she originally said she had no plans, or did you just ask if she had plans and then make your own without mentioning it to her?

If someone asked me earlier in the day if I had plans and I said no, I wouldn't assume that meant they'd be relying on me not making any plans later. Especially as a teen, where plans are generally quite flexible and adhoc.

I also think you're being overprotective expecting a 13 year old to need babysitting for one evening. I can't imagine how immature a 13 year old would have to be to not be able to cope in an emergency. The only emergency a 13 year old couldn't handle is someone breaking in, but I wouldn't expect a 16 year old (or 40 year old) to handle that well either!

That clearly was not well thought out. You should both be contactable.

She was last minute with her plans too.

The issue is not that you expected your daughter to stay home. The issue is you made plans based on her and expected her to just comply. That’s a complete lack of respect.

There is a big difference though between a discussion in advance, so that she does not make plans and instructions being delivered from on high after she already has plans.

You are the ones that did a last minute change.

Unless you had an agreement or payment with her to babysit yabu

Im with you and would have been fuming. I run around after my 2 and expect very little. Rarely go out, like you, and if I had asked my son to stay in with his brother then I would expect that. If I had been home and he said he was going out at 9.45pm it would have been an absolutely no youre not 😂 As for babying a 13 year old.....my 13 year old still doesnt like the dark, if fine by himself during the day but not at night and would have freaked out. Its about her taking some responsibility, I dont get the impression a lot is asked of her

I voted YANBU as you told her you were going out but tbh it just sounds like crossed wires.

Most teens would want to go out on weekends and I don’t think they should be used as babysitters but I do think she could have waited a couple of hours.

13 is still quite young to be left on their own that late in the evening, especially if they are emotionally younger.

Perhaps in future if you go to the cinema, you can have an agreement that DD can go out but to be contactable if DS needs her or go out at X time when you’re not going to be out much longer.

Its a pain having your phone on because in the cinema you want to just get engrossed in the film, but having it on and on silent would mean DS can stay home and text you if there’s a problem.

Im with you and would have been fuming. I run around after my 2 and expect very little. Rarely go out, like you, and if I had asked my son to stay in with his brother then I would expect that. If I had been home and he said he was going out at 9.45pm it would have been an absolutely no youre not 😂 As for babying a 13 year old.....my 13 year old still doesnt like the dark, if fine by himself during the day but not at night and would have freaked out. Its about her taking some responsibility, I dont get the impression a lot is asked of her

If your dd normally goes to see friends on a Saturday night, you can't really blame her for still wanting to do so after you landed her the role of 'companion' to her brother at the last minute. Don't forget too, that she checked with him before going. Maybe if he had said he was terrified to be alone, she would have stayed? He was also presumably able to contact her by phone if he needed to as I doubt a 16 year would have turned hers off.

To everyone saying 9.45 is too late to go out, that's nonsense. Depending on the kind of area they live in, it may have only been to a friend's house a short distance away. You say she needed your permission - but she did try to ask you. I guess she thought she would just go since she couldn't contact you and her brother said it was fine.

It sounds like you need to loosen the apron strings a little for both your children. As long as your son is ok about being left for a couple of hours, just let him know what you want him to do in an emergency and enjoy some more evenings out as a couple (or lunches, afternoons?)

I wonder how often the 13 year old DD was expected to look after the 10 year old DS for a little bit and whether she was allowed to be a "young" 13 or not?

I think there is an above and beyond. I don't know what that looks like for the OP, but for me it was things like driving 2 hours to take DD a pair of shoes she'd forgotten to pack for a wedding. Picking DS1 up from 30 miles away at 2am because the taxi was expensive. Putting yourself out to make their lives nicer beyond the necessary because they're 'good kids' who help you out too.

The thing is, you're doing those things out of choice as a parent - they're not essential and shouldn't be used as leverage to get your kids to do things for you in return.

If you want to drive two hours to take your child a pair of shoes then that's on you. It doesn't mean that child owes you some big favour in the future.

There's no such thing as 'above and beyond' in parenting.

Is it above and beyond to wipe your 20 year olds ass if they need care, is it above and beyond to give them a kidney etc... parenting is doing whatever it takes.

There is the utter basics and then there is good parenting but there isn't 'above and beyond'. Doing more than the minimum does not mean you can throw that in your child's face (especially when that 'above and beyond' is the odd bus fair and lift which is completely standard parenting... even my deadbeat dad who was never in my childhood and wished me dead gave me a lift once ffs).