To have expected dd to stay home?

[champagnetruffleshuffle]

No one in the family had plans this evening so DH and I decided to have a very rare evening out to the local cinema, leaving dd16 and ds13 at home. Dd16 came downstairs at dinner time saying she wants to go out to a neighbouring town and asked for a lift. We told her our plans and that the film didn't finish until 10.40 pm and we didn't want ds left on his own at home all evening.

We arrive home from the cinema to find ds on his own, dd had gone out at 9.45 pm to meet a local friend. She'd snap chatted me telling me whilst we were watching the film with our phones turned off. I turned my phone on when the film finished but my data was still off.

Ds is alright with being at home alone, but dh and I weren't happy as we'd be back quite late and weren't easily contactable.

I'm so cross with her right now. I know he was pretty safe but we made it clear we didn't want him left. AIBU? And wwyd?

YABU - 13 is old enough to be home alone, you can't exorcist 16yo to stay in on a Saturday night
YANBU - She went against our wishes and I'm right to be cross.

Honestly these comments, imagine your child having to lift a finger or be helpful 😆

13yo is a young 13, not incapable but not sure how well he'd cope if there was an actual emergency

That's down to you & your OH then. Maybe he's a 'young' 13 year old because you baby him. Is it because he's the youngest - or because he's male?

Why are you asking random people? This is a parenting matter. Be the parent!

I tend to agree, but if you read OPs comments, the 16 year old has a lot of freedom and expectations for their age and the opposite for the 13 year old.

DD did contact their DM, but their DM did not check their phone until later.

The OP was not questioning DD going out per se, but leaving their DS for about an hour before OP was due home.

Surely it's common courtesy to ask the dd first before racing ahead making your own plans and just expecting her to give up her own plans. I'd always check with a DD if she would agree before I booked anything.

For context, in my home country (Scandinavian) it’s common for 8-9 year olds to spend 1-2h at home alone after school until their parents come home from work. No school runs or pick ups there - 8 year olds know to take a key, lock the door, keep the key safe and make a snack safely when they get back. By 11, my brother and I were flying between two countries with a stopover. So to me, a lot of 13 year olds and more than capable, unless they’ve got additional support needs.

At 13 I was old enough to get a badge to say I could take a whole patrol of guides camping (as long as adults knew where we were, and there were no mobiles). How on earth can a 13 year old not be OK to spend an hour alone in his own home?
However I would also have been told that 10pm was bedtime not going out time, so your 16 year old seems very lucky there! Do you baby the younger one and regard the older as more grown up than she is?

It's all irrelevant really. Being worried about an emergency when your OP states both of your phones were turned off (although you've since posted to say DH phone wasn't off 🤔) when neither of them could contact their parents if the house was on fire/ being burgled etc..

@champagnetruffleshuffle

what exactly is your concern about your 13 year old being left home alone for a couple of hours? What do you think he would do? What do you think would happen exactly?

OP says she is not sure how he would cope in an emergency.
I think this comes with maturity. You might have the most sensible of children who knows the rules (no answering the door, no cooking with gas etc), but it's knowing that they would know what to do with the unpredictable which makes the difference I think.

This usually comes when they start secondary school and need to start making their own decisions e.g. if they miss the bus, if their phone runs out of charge, if they haven't got enough lunch money or whatever kit they need. You can't teach them what to do in every situation, they need to think on their feet.

And you sometimes only see they've got that skill when they are faced with these things.

I was out once when water starting coming through the kitchen ceiling. He managed the situation OK.

I think it can make a difference where you live. We have good neighbours, and my son knows he can ask them for help if needed. If we lived 2 miles up a deserted farm track I might not have been happy leaving him alone until he was a little older.

This so totally!!!!

Some of these comments? Why should a 16 year old not have to help out very occasionally? What a load of self entitled and selfish people there will be if they don’t ever have to think of helping other people (including recognising that their parents are people who occasionally deserve to have a night out).

I think op’s daughter took advantage- I wouldn’t come down heavy but I would have a chat to say I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear enough but I really would have liked you to stay at home with your brother. Next time I’d agree it with her in advance and be clearer.

I understand reluctance to leave an immature 13 year old alone at night - I have a 12 year old with SEN and have not yet left her for more than an hour or so in the day.

It's this which is the main point imo. It's not that the DD shouldn't be expected to help at all, but she should be asked in advance so that she can plan around it rather than being expected to give up plans she has already made.

Some of these comments? Why should a 16 year old not have to help out very occasionally?

Indeed. I have 10 years between my 2 sons. I have been a lone parent for much of DS2's childhood. Did I ask DS1 to mind his little brother - of course I did!
It might have been while I nipped to the village shop: "Hey TeenBog, I'm popping to the shop, you're in charge and I've told MiniBog".

Or a planned event "I really want to do this 10K on Sunday, I can take Mini with me, but if you're around he could stay with you".

Or an even more planned event "I'm working today, how about I get you tickets to the cinema and a Subway lunch"

I sometimes paid him, say if I wanted him to do something more 'parenty' than just make sure Mini didn't kill himself e.g. collect him from Cubs, cook dinner and get him into bed.

They're older now (24 and 14) and get on very well.

Sorry, but I don't get people saying OP is being unreasonable...when I was 16 I'd not only been babysitting for other families for years (13 onwards), but I would be expected to "look after" my sisters occasionally too (I'm the eldest, one is 12 months younger, the other 10.5 years younger) - e.g. if parents went away for a weekend they took the youngest & I was responsible for middle one being sensible, etc. I even collected youngest from school on Fridays when not at college, so I find it bizzare a 16 yo wouldn't be expected to watch a 13 yo for the odd date night, etc.

Plus things were safer then (early 1990s, we didn't have the internet, SM etc.)...though 16 yo's today are clearly much more immature. All 3 of us moved away to uni at 18 / 19 by 100 miles+ and we're all married with our own kids now. I even was youngest's legal guardian from age 18 in the wills, incase something happened to my folks.

Time for a quiet talk with DD. Separate from the issue of you having asked her to stay home with DS. She should not have gone out in the evening without discussing it with you first. For safety you need to know where she is and how she will get home etc.
Is there a particularly appealing friend or boyfriend potentially on the scene? Keep a close eye ….

Tho, I wouldn't leave my son alone at 13...

1. he's male - boys are widely regarded as more immature than girls
2. he has autism & adhd so isn't appearing overly sensible at mo, that may change in the next 5 years, but I sincerely doubt it & unfortunately he's an only child.

Call me old fashioned but wtf is a 16 going out doing at 9.45pm!! I had to be in by 9pm which is reasonable.
I'd be more concerned st that, surely she has to be up for school

Most kids don't go to school on weekends 😂 but still I agree, a 16yo going out at 9:45pm (even on a weekend) is nuts, I had to be home by 9 or 10pm latest then unless babysitting.

Really? Kids that age can stay up all night partying!

They can, and do...I had friends that did, doesn't mean I'd be good with my 16 yo going out that late. I was out til 3am New Year aged 18 though, but for New Year and I was 18...9 months later I left Bristol for uni in Liverpool & lived there 3 years. Never overdid the booze, never 'left a man behind', but still have great memories & a degree, so that parenting from my folks did me some favours in life.

There's no reason why a 16 year old can't be asked to babysit a younger sibling or two, no. But this sibling is 13 and agreed to his sister going out at 9.45, not too long before his parents were due to return. Presumably she wouldn't have left a much younger child and her brother would have objected should he have been worried.

I don't know why posters can't focus on the actual issue rather than on an imaginary one in which a 16 year old is too selfish to babysit her much younger siblings AFTER she had been pre- warned that she is requested to do so.

This 16 year old already had plans to meet friends that evening that her parents either disregarded or knew nothing about. Maybe some advance communication from both parties would have helped.

16 yo can stay home alone

Well, I'd expect my 16 year old DD to fit in with my plans. She lives in my house and is fed and clothed by me, so she should do so. She ought to know not to leave her DB on his own. You might resent it, but it's not unreasonable. What it there had been an accident? Grounded.

As this was posted 6 months ago, I think grounding her now would be a bit unfair….